Author Topic: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???  (Read 4994 times)

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2014, 01:10:07 PM »
no and no.

primo is also a good way to lose ones hair.
i think youre just "asking" rhetoricaly,you know the answers.

but ill put it out here anyway:

dht compounds are not anti estrogens at all.they are simply steroids and thats that.

they dont stop estrogen conversion from other compounds at all.

even if one runs dht derivates only, the will still be estrogen in the body,anyone who knows how estrogen is created will know that.

a friend has just has blood work done and runs a dht compound only cycle.est is low but not "gone".

hope this helps,but you knew this already ;D



But primo is very mild, how it can be harsh for the hair?
Women are also using primo

nasum

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2014, 02:45:34 PM »
But primo is very mild, how it can be harsh for the hair?
Women are also using primo

Because primo is a DHT derivative and classically these will make you go bald the fastest (masteron, winny etc).

So I see where galeniko is coming from. However, not all DHT-based steroids are equal and some DHT compounds are less effective than others at producing sides, primobolan is meant to be one of these.

Although it certainly has the potential to make you lose your hair, just not to the extent of masteron and winny.

ESFitness

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2014, 03:34:20 PM »
With those stats you don't need to take anything

nobody "needs" to take anything... but we do to achieve the appearance we want.

this is bodybuilding.

not "eh, I'm good enough so i'll just maintain-building".

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2014, 04:25:21 PM »
nobody "needs" to take anything... but we do to achieve the appearance we want.

this is bodybuilding.

not "eh, I'm good enough so i'll just maintain-building".
Your absolutely right, ESF! I would love to get your take on my future quest.

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 04:44:53 PM »
hm, by design, by default, dht derivates cant and shouldnt be described as mild.

maybe primo is mild as far building muscle goes, but not so mild as far sides go.

all non estrogen convertibles have some notorious sides.


its always consistent, seen the blood works of people.

and yes, primo is right up there as hair loss steroid
n

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2014, 06:38:23 PM »
hm, by design, by default, dht derivates cant and shouldnt be described as mild.

maybe primo is mild as far building muscle goes, but not so mild as far sides go.

all non estrogen convertibles have some notorious sides.


its always consistent, seen the blood works of people.

and yes, primo is right up there as hair loss steroid
Galeniko, does 250mgs of Test/week for a year straight sounds reasonable to see decent results?

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2014, 08:02:30 PM »
Galeniko, does 250mgs of Test/week for a year straight sounds reasonable to see decent results?
for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.

6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.


but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.

has to be non stop,though.

going off when developing is setting one back too far.

the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.

if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.
n

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2014, 01:34:53 PM »
for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.

6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.


but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.

has to be non stop,though.

going off when developing is setting one back too far.

the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.

if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.
Ok. That sounds sensible and doable. Start out with a 250mgs of Test for 6 months and reasess to see where I am development-wise. Then, bump it up to 500mgs for the next 6 months. If I can't get to the next level off of 250-500mgs of Test/wk, I will take up sewing. LOL

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2014, 01:46:39 PM »
I'm gunning for 250-255lbs and 9% bf within the next 8-12 months. I'm confident I can achieve and maintain it with my diet & training.

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2014, 03:00:57 PM »
I'm gunning for 250-255lbs and 9% bf within the next 8-12 months. I'm confident I can achieve and maintain it with my diet & training.
dont even worry about numbers.

just train, eat the protein, always be on.

i know numbers can be motivational, but the most important mindeset give it all in every training, learn tof eel when need rest,when what foods,do not overeat,just dont, growinf muscle is more or less mere glycogen retention,and bit fibre hypertrophy.

consistency and time are the most important factors.

dont slack while on gear, its pointless to be on gear if not going full out.

ahalo is what one can expect within a year if their not completely oblivious to whats necesary.he made great gains and kept getting leaner.

he had a solid enough base and nver on gear before.

its important to take full advantage of the gear.those who slack and just keepupping dosage burn out fast and will have poor results.

is important to be realistic with one self about the question whether one is ready or not to start.

those who arent, will be disapoint.its not bad genetics ,its bad everything,poor effort and too much daydreaming.

some clowns say something like my physique is "small"(well yeah relative to olympia cast it is very small), but im blessed with decent genetics and still needed tons and tons of time of serious lifting
n

oni

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2014, 01:11:26 AM »
Has anyone got pictures of ahalo before and after?
I'm very interested

I've taken everything way down after talking to galeniko and the results have been great.
Less food
Less drugs (1/6th of the dose lol)
More growth

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2014, 03:27:40 AM »
for a newcomer, yes, for a vet, thatll be maintenance.

6month 250 followed by 6months 500, if one doesnt build halfway decent physique on that in 1-2 years, itll never happen.


but if one sticks to diet and trains like an animal, the results will be good.

has to be non stop,though.

going off when developing is setting one back too far.

the only ones who can go off and then come back in little time are those4 who had the physique before already.

if i was on my way up to the personal goal theres no way id ever go off until there.


Galeniko: 2 big questions for you:

1-Is it true that 250 has the same impact on your HPTA axis then 500 mg?
So it doesn't matter what you use thus better 500 mg for better gains?


2-Big CAT is a well known scientist in AAS and he wote that test is more harsh on your hairline than primo because primo is not a dht derivate but a dhb derivate (derivate from equipose) and the problem is the molecule, the conversion from test-->dht is harsh for the hairline and not primo because it is  "already changed into dht" so less harsh for your hair?

Thanks man

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2014, 07:32:42 AM »
haha that well knows scientist cant be trusted.

i know what is dhb, and primo isnt a dhb.

even if it was, the effect on hair would be about the same.

more on this later gtg
n

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2014, 09:21:46 AM »
haha that well knows scientist cant be trusted.

i know what is dhb, and primo isnt a dhb.

even if it was, the effect on hair would be about the same.

more on this later gtg

Have you heard from Big Cat? he has a worldwide name as AAS guru

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2014, 11:26:00 AM »
Have you heard from Big Cat? he has a worldwide name as AAS guru
nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.

hes wronf on the dhb.

that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.

dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?

learn to think for yourself,here:

During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.

read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).

here about shut down and dht

The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.


thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.


do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!

read scientific studies,think for yourselves.

in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.

im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.

they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.

if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.
n

oni

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2014, 04:00:35 PM »
The scalp doesn't have "DHT receptors" it has "androgen receptors"
If something is androgenic in nature, it will be "the final solution" for the hairline as galeniko likes to say

DHT derivatives are very androgenic by design. But you can run anything that is androgenic and have the same issues. If prone, test, tren, masteron, primo it won't matter.

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2014, 05:31:23 PM »
The scalp doesn't have "DHT receptors" it has "androgen receptors"
If something is androgenic in nature, it will be "the final solution" for the hairline as galeniko likes to say

DHT derivatives are very androgenic by design. But you can run anything that is androgenic and have the same issues. If prone, test, tren, masteron, primo it won't matter.
yes its the androgen receptors that will kill the hairline, but the androgen reeptors have much higher affinity to dht than to test.

so it def makes a difference whether one chooses test or masteron.

in theory,low dose deca and eq seem safest.

tren can be hit or miss.

test is ok-isch low dose(in other words if one loses hair on low dose test, his hair is soon doomed anyway)

and then comes the array of "dryness" peds, they all terrible on the hair.

n

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2014, 01:02:16 AM »
nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.

hes wronf on the dhb.

that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.

dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?

learn to think for yourself,here:

During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.

read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).

here about shut down and dht

The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.


thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.


do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!

read scientific studies,think for yourselves.

in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.

im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.

they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.

if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.


Thanks bro for your explanation and effort!
But now in easy language?

No Big Cat didnt say dht are anti estrogen.

But i thought because he has an academic level in biochemistry/celbiology and has personal experiences and helped also pro BB..then ik thought he will be very smart with AAS.

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2014, 01:05:45 AM »
yes its the androgen receptors that will kill the hairline, but the androgen reeptors have much higher affinity to dht than to test.

so it def makes a difference whether one chooses test or masteron.

in theory,low dose deca and eq seem safest.

tren can be hit or miss.

test is ok-isch low dose(in other words if one loses hair on low dose test, his hair is soon doomed anyway)

and then comes the array of "dryness" peds, they all terrible on the hair.




Thanks thats clear! ;D ;)

Christo

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2014, 01:08:15 AM »
nobody needs a guru its good enough to read the gear packaging and see if theres scientific studies,all else is individual.

hes wronf on the dhb.

that said test is certainly not as har don hair as primobolan.

dont listen to that "guru" jesus sake, have you got that from him that dhts are anti estrogens?

learn to think for yourself,here:

During testosterone administration, total and free E2 levels increased dose-dependently (dose effect, P<0.001) in both young and older men. Total and free E2 levels and E2:T ratios during T administration were higher in older than young men, but age-related differences in free E2 and free E2:T ratios were not significant after adjusting for testosterone levels, percentage fat mass, and SHBG. DHT levels and DHT:T ratios were dose-related but did not differ between young and older men. Mechanistic modeling of free hormone data revealed that the conversions of T to E2 and DHT were both consistent with saturable Michaelis-Menten kinetics. The in vivo Km values were estimated to be 1.83 nm for aromatase and 3.35 nm for 5alpha-reductase, independent of age. The Vmax parameter for E2 was 40% higher in older men than younger men, but Vmax for DHT was not significantly different between age groups.
CONCLUSIONS:
During im testosterone administration, E2 and DHT levels exhibit saturable increases with dose. The rate of whole body aromatization is higher in older men, partly related to their higher percentage fat mass, SHBG, and testosterone levels.

read especialy the conclusion, this is what i always been saying(and i dont feel smart about it,everyone who been shredded will know, if youre fat,youre an estrogenic mess if you inject steroids).

here about shut down and dht

The administration of exogenous testosterone (T) to eugonadal men causes suppression of gonadotropin secretion and thus of spermatogenesis. This is currently being investigated as a possible method of hormonal male contraceptive, but complete suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia is induced in only 50-70% of Caucasian men; the remainder maintain a low rate of spermatogenesis. The basis for this polymorphism in response is unclear. The enzyme 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) converts T to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and is important in determining the magnitude of the androgen stimulus in some tissues. We investigated whether the maintenance of spermatogenesis in men remaining oligozoospermic while receiving suppressive doses of T is associated with evidence of increased 5 alpha R activity. Thirty-three normal men were given 200 mg T enanthate (TE), im, weekly in a clinical trial of hormonal male contraception. The MCR of T (MCRT) and the conversion ratio of T to DHT (CRT-DHT) were measured by infusion of [3H]T, plasma levels of DHT and androstanediol glucuronide (AdiolG) were measured by RIA, and 24-h urinary steroid metabolites were measured by capillary column gas chromatography. Sperm density decreased in all men; 18 achieved azoospermia by 20 weeks of treatment, and the remainder had a mean sperm density of 2.0 +/- 0.8 x 10(5)/mL at that time. This treatment caused increases in plasma T levels and MCRT, but with no differences between azoospermic and oligozoospermic responders. There were no differences in CRT-DHT plasma DHT, or AdiolG before treatment, but after 16 weeks, CRT-DHT had increased in the oligozoospermic responders, but not in the azoospermic responders. TE treatment increased plasma DHT and AdiolG levels in both groups, but the increases in both 5 alpha R metabolites were significantly greater in the oligozoospermic responders. Urinary excretion of etiocholanolone and androsterone was increased after 16 weeks of TE treatment, but did not differ between the two groups, andetiocholanolone/androsterone ratios did not differ greatly from unity. There was no change in urinary excretion of tetrahydrocortisol, allo-tetrahydrocortisol, or cortisone after 16 weeks of TE treatment in either group. These results suggest that after TE administration there is a selective increase in 5 alpha R activity in those men who remain oligozoospermic, but not in those becoming azoospermic. This difference in the androgenic milieu may underlie the incomplete suppression in the oligozoospermic responders, in whom a low rate of spermatogenesis is maintained despite the apparent absence of gonadotropins.


thanks, see i dont feel like a teacher.


do not listen to gurus for fuck sake!!!

read scientific studies,think for yourselves.

in lay,an terms,injecting a dht derivate will always be much harsher on the hair than test.

im not a guru i only talk when i know i read about scientific studies on the matter.

they are also very interesting to read, just not as dramaticaly presented as the fraudulent bullshitters gurus do.

if one says dhts are anti estorgens and primo is not a dht, they dont know what they talking about.


My question remains: will 250 mg test also surpress the hpta axis at same level then 500 mg test for a period of 10 weeks?
Sorry maybe for my dumbness

galeniko

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2014, 06:09:49 AM »
yes the shut down is about the same the study above is in plain sight.


250-500for 12 week "cycle" on test e is pretty bad thing to do, soon after iit starts working you go off and are shut down.

they both shit you down fast and good.

every steroid shuts ppl axis down.

n

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2014, 09:18:26 PM »
yes the shut down is about the same the study above is in plain sight.


250-500for 12 week "cycle" on test e is pretty bad thing to do, soon after iit starts working you go off and are shut down.

they both shit you down fast and good.

every steroid shuts ppl axis down.
So, its better to do what I plan on doing. Start out with 250mgs of 250mgs of Test/wk for 6 months. Have laser like focus on my diet, training & recuperation. Then, bump up the Test to 500mg/wk for the next 6 months, right?


millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2014, 09:33:34 PM »
Galeniko, quick question for you. I've read on several of the more popular boards on the net that "250mgs of Test/wk won't do jack!", "250mgs of Test/wk is a waste!" or "Bump it up to 500mgs and do a REAL cycle!" What kind of results have you witnessed someone achieve using 250mgs of Test for an extended period of time?

oni

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2014, 11:43:28 PM »
Galeniko, quick question for you. I've read on several of the more popular boards on the net that "250mgs of Test/wk won't do jack!", "250mgs of Test/wk is a waste!" or "Bump it up to 500mgs and do a REAL cycle!" What kind of results have you witnessed someone achieve using 250mgs of Test for an extended period of time?

250mg/week is pretty much triple natural.... HRT is that every 14 days
Get lean and jacked on that dose. If you can't do that then forget it, no amount of drugs will do it for you. When you have DONE that, bump it up to 500
People can get good results naturally, so if double natural won't give good results then something is drastically wrong

millineum man

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Re: First Cycle Recommendation For An Older Lifter/Long Term Plans???
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2014, 08:06:52 AM »
I've read that the average healthy male produces 7-11mgs of test per day or roughly 50-80mgs a week. 80mgs is at the high end. If I had to guess, a young man going through puberty(14-18 years old) is probably at 80mgs a week. 250mgs of Test Enanthate without the ester gives you 180mgs of Test in your system. That's not counting the build up effect, neither.