I think only property owning, taxpaying citizens should be able to vote

[StreetSoldier4U]

you mean like obamacare?

lol so youre for making people sign up for health care which is not only a convoluted and confusing process but one that needs to be repeated often and youre against this b/c you think the process is prohibitive...

got it moron

This encapsulates the issue nicely. Voter ID laws are actually mild compared to the compulsory requirements for ACA

[Straw Man]

Let's get real for a moment

Repubs have a vested interest in lower turnout.....period

Numerous Republicans have said this and it's one of those "givens" that everyone knows it true

Voter ID laws are just another version of the poll tax, literacy test etc...

The intent (and hope) is that it will reduce voter turnout which will benefit Republican

There is no significant voter fraud (i.e. people actually voting multiple times or using false identity)

I understand that Repubs like to imagine that it exists in order to justify their various voter ID initiatives but in private they will admit the real purpose (and even occasionally in public they will do so)

[tonymctones]

Let's get real for a moment

Repubs have a vested interest in lower turnout.....period

Numerous Republicans have said this and it's one of those "givens" that everyone knows it true

Voter ID laws are just another version of the poll tax, literacy test etc...

The intent (and hope) is that it will reduce voter turnout which will benefit Republican

There is no significant voter fraud (i.e. people actually voting multiple times or using false identity)

I understand that Repubs like to imagine that it exists in order to justify their various voter ID initiatives but in private they will admit the real purpose (and even occasionally in public they will do so)

its well documented that the majority of the country is independent leaning conservative so exactly how do reps have a vested interest in voter turn out?

[StreetSoldier4U]

Let's get real for a moment

Repubs have a vested interest in lower turnout.....period

Numerous Republicans have said this and it's one of those "givens" that everyone knows it true

Voter ID laws are just another version of the poll tax, literacy test etc...

The intent (and hope) is that it will reduce voter turnout which will benefit Republican

There is no significant voter fraud (i.e. people actually voting multiple times or using false identity)

I understand that Repubs like to imagine that it exists in order to justify their various voter ID initiatives but in private they will admit the real purpose (and even occasionally in public they will do so)

Let's get real here.  What functioning member of society doesn't have ID?   

[tu_holmes]

Let's get real here.  What functioning member of society doesn't have ID?   

People who live in the city and have never needed anything more than a bus pass.

Those people don't.

[StreetSoldier4U]

People who live in the city and have never needed anything more than a bus pass.

Those people don't.

They never need to present ID ever? For instance to buy alcohol. Well they need to use their bus pass to take them to procur a ID card.

[tu_holmes]

They never need to present ID ever? For instance to buy alcohol. Well they need to use their bus pass to take them to procur a ID card.

Old black church ladies probably don't drink.

There are a lot of older people who have just simply never had to drive... My grandmother never drove until she was 80.

My grandfather always drove and did everything.

Now, my grandmother had numerous credit cards and of course had ID, but that's not everyone.

Voting is for EVERYONE, not just who you believe to be "fit to vote".

That's an absolutely ridiculous notion... Who gets to decide who is "fit to vote".

Today you're saying you must have ID, or they must own property... Next you'll be saying, must be baptist... or anything but muslim... It is, to be honest, very similar to saying "only white".

Voting is supposed to be "inclusive", not exclusive at all.

You are trying to exclude people. I take issue with that.

[StreetSoldier4U]

Old black church ladies probably don't drink.

There are a lot of older people who have just simply never had to drive... My grandmother never drove until she was 80.

My grandfather always drove and did everything.

Now, my grandmother had numerous credit cards and of course had ID, but that's not everyone.

Voting is for EVERYONE, not just who you believe to be "fit to vote".

That's an absolutely ridiculous notion... Who gets to decide who is "fit to vote".

Today you're saying you must have ID, or they must own property... Next you'll be saying, must be baptist... or anything but muslim... It is, to be honest, very similar to saying "only white".

Voting is supposed to be "inclusive", not exclusive at all.

You are trying to exclude people. I take issue with that.

This is a straw man argument and full of shrill hyperbole.    I'm not trying to excluding anyone.  It's not an inconvenience for someone to prove who they say they are. 

[tu_holmes]

This is a straw man argument and full of shrill hyperbole.    I'm not trying to excluding anyone.  It's not an inconvenience for someone to prove who they say they are. 

It's really not hyperbole... These are the realities of older people and certain people in general.

They may not be YOUR reality, but to a group of people, it is reality.

How can you say you aren't trying to exclude people when you are specifically giving criteria to "allow" someone to vote.

You are choosing that only X group with Y item can vote... That is, by measure of definition, exclusion.

[Straw Man]

Let's get real here.  What functioning member of society doesn't have ID?   

many older people or poor people who don't drive

if it were simply an issue of allowing various and multiple alternatives then that would be fine but ..... of course, that is not how the laws are drafted

they are drafted to make it more difficult to voter

this would be a simple fix and we could do it on a national level.... but Repubs would never allow it because it would lower their chances of winning elections

Here is the simple formula.  

As a general rule the more people who vote the less likely it is for a Republican to win

[StreetSoldier4U]

It's really not hyperbole... These are the realities of older people and certain people in general.

They may not be YOUR reality, but to a group of people, it is reality.

How can you say you aren't trying to exclude people when you are specifically giving criteria to "allow" someone to vote.

You are choosing that only X group with Y item can vote... That is, by measure of definition, exclusion.

Oh please,  come off it.   Anyone can get ID.  Nothing is stopping them.  Every process has rules and requirements.  

[tonymctones]

Old black church ladies probably don't drink.

There are a lot of older people who have just simply never had to drive... My grandmother never drove until she was 80.

My grandfather always drove and did everything.

Now, my grandmother had numerous credit cards and of course had ID, but that's not everyone.

Voting is for EVERYONE, not just who you believe to be "fit to vote".

That's an absolutely ridiculous notion... Who gets to decide who is "fit to vote".

Today you're saying you must have ID, or they must own property... Next you'll be saying, must be baptist... or anything but muslim... It is, to be honest, very similar to saying "only white".

Voting is supposed to be "inclusive", not exclusive at all.

You are trying to exclude people. I take issue with that.

requiring id is not exclusive tu...

seriously if people are ok with forcing everyone to sign up for healthcare and we all know what a pain in the ass that can be, how can they say that this is prohibitive?

[StreetSoldier4U]

many older people or poor people who don't drive

if it were simply an issue of allowing various and multiple alternatives then that would be fine but ..... of course, that is not how the laws are drafted

they are drafted to make it more difficult to voter

this would be a simple fix and we could do it on a national level.... but Repubs would never allow it because it would lower their chances of winning elections

Here is the simple formula.  

As a general rule the more people who vote the less likely it is for a Republican to win

So, they can't get ID.  Nothing is stopping them.  

[tonymctones]

many older people or poor people who don't drive

if it were simply an issue of allowing various and multiple alternatives then that would be fine but ..... of course, that is not how the laws are drafted

they are drafted to make it more difficult to voter

this would be a simple fix and we could do it on a national level.... but Repubs would never allow it because it would lower their chances of winning elections

Here is the simple formula.  

As a general rule the more people who vote the less likely it is for a Republican to win

excluding someone for their actions/inactions when there is nothing prohibiting them from taking those actions is not really excluding them.

They are excluding themselves...

[tonymctones]

As a general rule the more people who vote the less likely it is for a Republican to win

LMFAO except the data doesnt back up your ignorance.

It always amazes me how much libtards think other people think the way they do, your views are fucking out ther dumb ass just b/c you have a few friends who are just as ignorant and dumb as you doesnt mean shit.

[tu_holmes]

requiring id is not exclusive tu...

seriously if people are ok with forcing everyone to sign up for healthcare and we all know what a pain in the ass that can be, how can they say that this is prohibitive?

I didn't say that was OK either, so don't put that on me.

I think everyone should have had an OPTION to sign into medicare for a cost... Whatever it takes for the overhead. That's about it.

So don't give me that "If people say this, then you should be ok with that" when I'm not ok with either one.

[StreetSoldier4U]

excluding someone for their actions/inactions when there is nothing prohibiting them from taking those actions is not really excluding them.

They are excluding themselves...

Exactly.  Unless a person is house bound because of a medical condition nothing is stopping them from getting ID.  

[Straw Man]

Oh please,  come off it.   Anyone can get ID.  Nothing is stopping them.  Every process has rules and requirements.  

actually, many states make it quite difficult to get the "required" form of  ID, especially if you live in a rural area and don't own a car

here is a long list of other examples of people who had difficulty voting (or could not vote) due to these types of laws

again, if the laws were written with great latitude for various alternatives forms of ID then it might be fine (but of course that would defeat the purpose of the laws which are designed to reduce voter turnout)

http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046

[tu_holmes]

Exactly.  Unless a person is house bound because of a medical condition nothing is stopping them from getting ID. 

Yes there is... Why are you ignoring the fact that some people don't drive.

So you're saying that they should be inconvenienced to go get an ID and pay for it so they can vote?

I have said that I feel that if you were to give the ID away for free and allow them to get the ID at the voting station the first time, I would be more inclined to let it go, but that's never what anyone has stated they would be allowed to do.

[StreetSoldier4U]

Yes there is... Why are you ignoring the fact that some people don't drive.

So you're saying that they should be inconvenienced to go get an ID and pay for it so they can vote?

I have said that I feel that if you were to give the ID away for free and allow them to get the ID at the voting station the first time, I would be more inclined to let it go, but that's never what anyone has stated they would be allowed to do.

Yes they should. Give ID away for free.  It's actually very inexpensive to obtain a state ID.  My mother has vision problems and can't drive.  She has a state ID.

[Tedim]

My requirements to vote...

1. 25 years of age

2. Must pass very basic civics test before each vote every time....i.e. Three branches of government, US constitution Bill of Rights etc IN ENGLISH!

3. Must be US citizen with Federal Voting ID card Issued by the local FBI office!

4. Must not be receiving any Federal/State welfare assistance...local OK as is private

5. Must have paid taxes in the previous year or had taxable income

6. Must sign affidavit stating you are eligible to vote.... and be aware of mandatory 5 year incarceration if you purger yourself.

All these I would gladly do myself, so no special treatment.

[tu_holmes]

Yes they should. Give ID away for free.  It's actually very inexpensive to obtain a state ID.  My mother has vision problems and can't drive.  She has a state ID.

That's the rub, most people are not saying that they will give it away.

Most people supporting the ID are saying they should purchase it.

Also, are you willing to do it at the voting location the first time?

[Roger Bacon]

My requirements to vote...

1. 25 years of age

2. Must pass very basic civics test before each vote every time....i.e. Three branches of government, US constitution Bill of Rights etc IN ENGLISH!

3. Must be US citizen with Federal Voting ID card Issued by the local FBI office!

4. Must not be receiving any Federal/State welfare assistance...local OK as is private

5. Must have paid taxes in the previous year or had taxable income

6. Must sign affidavit stating you are eligible to vote.... and be aware of mandatory 5 year incarceration if you purger yourself.

All these I would gladly do myself, so no special treatment.

Our country would be in very good shape right now if those were the requirements.

[Straw Man]

LMFAO except the data doesnt back up your ignorance.

It always amazes me how much libtards think other people think the way they do, your views are fucking out ther dumb ass just b/c you have a few friends who are just as ignorant and dumb as you doesnt mean shit.

I see you forgot to include that data in your post.....once again

As recently as the governor race in Virginia last year you had pundit saying that Cuccinelli could win if only the turn out was low enough (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/03/VA-Analyst-Low-Turnout-Election-Will-Help-Cuccinelli)

I'd like to see Repubs and Dems come together at a National Level and get committed to INCREASING voter turnout (i.e. we should have as much of our population participating in our elections)

They could easily do this by creating a national voter registry which you are automatically entered into when you turn 18

Do you think Repubs would be in favor of this?

How about Dems?

[Roger Bacon]

I see you forgot to include that data in your post.....once again

As recently as the governor race in Virginia last year you had pundit saying that Cuccinelli could win if only the turn out was low enough (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/03/VA-Analyst-Low-Turnout-Election-Will-Help-Cuccinelli)

I'd like to see Repubs and Dems come together at a National Level and get committed to INCREASING voter turnout (i.e. we should have as much of our population participating in our elections)

They could easily do this by creating a national voter registry which you are automatically entered into when you turn 18

Do you think Repubs would be in favor of this?

How about Dems?

What's your point? We could expand voting even further and allow kids to vote. Is that even better?