Author Topic: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"  (Read 2260 times)

blacken700

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Just days after warning his party that it will lose its electoral grip on Texas if it doesn’t broaden its appeal, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., offered an even more dire prediction on Thursday: Forget losing Texas – the GOP might never win a presidential election again if it doesn’t change its tune.

“I think Republicans will not win again in my lifetime…unless they become a new GOP, a new Republican Party,” Paul said during an interview with conservative radio host Glenn Beck that aired Thursday. “And it has to be a transformation. Not a little tweaking at the edges.”

The Kentucky Republican said the GOP needs to do a better job of tailoring specific messages to specific groups.

With young people, he said, he would stress an opposition to excessive government surveillance and a respect for personal privacy. And among minority communities, he said, a message of criminal justice reform – including changes to the “war on drugs” and sentencing laws – would resonate.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-paul-without-change-gop-will-not-win-again-in-my-lifetime/

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 06:11:54 AM »
Democrats couldn't change minds so they changed the electorate.

blacken700

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 06:16:42 AM »
Democrats couldn't change minds so they changed the electorate.

I notice that when ever you can't formulate a proper rebuttal you resort to this.

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 06:31:15 AM »
I notice that when ever you can't formulate a proper rebuttal you resort to this.

It's a valid rebuttal.  Democrats didn't change either.  They just changed the voters.  Republicans don't have that option.  They can't import a brand new crop of constituents.

blacken700

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 06:44:05 AM »
the problem is the repubs have let the far right nuts take the party over,so getting a majority of the vote is going to be nearly impossible now.

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2014, 09:54:31 AM »
Democrats couldn't change minds so they changed the electorate.

What does this mean? 

Are you saying that you object to having more eligible folks vote?  That sounds pretty un-democratic.

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 09:56:49 AM »
What does this mean? 

Are you saying that you object to having more eligible folks vote?  That sounds pretty un-democratic.

Are you serious? 

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 08:40:26 PM »
Are you serious? 

Yeah, serious.  What you mean honestly isn't clear to me. 

What do you mean by "changing the electorate"?

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 08:43:24 PM »
Yeah, serious.  What you mean honestly isn't clear to me. 

What do you mean by "changing the electorate"?

You're obsessed.   You don't know what changing the electorate means?

Roger Bacon

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 09:25:22 PM »
It's a valid rebuttal.  Democrats didn't change either.  They just changed the voters.  Republicans don't have that option.  They can't import a brand new crop of constituents.

x2

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 09:41:31 PM »
You're obsessed.   You don't know what changing the electorate means?

No, I'm not sure what you mean.  Any hints forthcoming?

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 09:42:26 PM »
No, I'm not sure what you mean.  Any hints forthcoming?

Isn't it obvious

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2014, 09:54:25 PM »
Isn't it obvious

Not to me, no. 

So end the suspense;  What did you mean by "changing the electorate"?

George Whorewell

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 01:04:45 AM »
Not to me, no. 

So end the suspense;  What did you mean by "changing the electorate"?

Immigration reform aka amnesty= 20 million permanent democrat voters who will be utterly dependent on government.

Vigorously fighting voter id laws= Democrats pretend that its a civil rights issue, but its really about maintaining the left's rich history of voter fraud.

AG Holders push for letting convicted felons vote= Will also be a windfall for Democrat party numbers.

The Republican party is supposed to be the party of industrious, hard working, law abiding red-blooded Americans. The Democrat party doesn't appeal to your typical American because its amoral, corrupt and stands for everything in the world that normal people find repugnant. The left's entire philosophy and very reason for existence is based upon widespread poverty and misery. If the vast majority of the public were self sufficient, honest and hard working== what possible use or reason would anyone ever have to vote Democrat?

The right cant import convicted felons, illegal aliens or use gimmicks to commit widespread voter fraud. These are luxuries that are at the express disposal of the libs.

 




dario73

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2014, 05:21:38 AM »
Immigration reform aka amnesty= 20 million permanent democrat voters who will be utterly dependent on government.

Vigorously fighting voter id laws= Democrats pretend that its a civil rights issue, but its really about maintaining the left's rich history of voter fraud.

AG Holders push for letting convicted felons vote= Will also be a windfall for Democrat party numbers.

The Republican party is supposed to be the party of industrious, hard working, law abiding red-blooded Americans. The Democrat party doesn't appeal to your typical American because its amoral, corrupt and stands for everything in the world that normal people find repugnant. The left's entire philosophy and very reason for existence is based upon widespread poverty and misery. If the vast majority of the public were self sufficient, honest and hard working== what possible use or reason would anyone ever have to vote Democrat?

The right cant import convicted felons, illegal aliens or use gimmicks to commit widespread voter fraud. These are luxuries that are at the express disposal of the libs.

  





Watch that retard RRwhore respond with a "what do you mean?"

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 08:10:29 AM »
Watch that retard RRwhore respond with a "what do you mean?"

I'm not a retard compared to you, ya sky-wizard worshiping simpleton.

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 09:19:16 AM »
Immigration reform aka amnesty= 20 million permanent democrat voters who will be utterly dependent on government.

Vigorously fighting voter id laws= Democrats pretend that its a civil rights issue, but its really about maintaining the left's rich history of voter fraud.

AG Holders push for letting convicted felons vote= Will also be a windfall for Democrat party numbers.

The Republican party is supposed to be the party of industrious, hard working, law abiding red-blooded Americans. The Democrat party doesn't appeal to your typical American because its amoral, corrupt and stands for everything in the world that normal people find repugnant. The left's entire philosophy and very reason for existence is based upon widespread poverty and misery. If the vast majority of the public were self sufficient, honest and hard working== what possible use or reason would anyone ever have to vote Democrat?

The right cant import convicted felons, illegal aliens or use gimmicks to commit widespread voter fraud. These are luxuries that are at the express disposal of the libs.


Thanks for your explanation. Sincerely.

I have some thoughts about some of your examples, though:

Yeah, it seem reasonable that amnesty for illegals will grow the Dem voting ranks (someday, anyway - weren't they talking about a 13-year "path to citizenship"?), but so what?  --  Wouldn't it also increase the number of taxpayers? 

I mean, I guess you could assign illegal aliens some kind of 2nd class citizenship that would make them ineligible to vote but it doesn't seem fair to tax them without giving them some say in how the country is run.  For wasn't this a central factor in the American Revolution 240 years ago?  (Or maybe it's foolish for Mexicans, in particular, to expect fairness from a country that took much of Mexico's land after an unjust war in the first place?  - Meh, just a thought.) 

In my experience, Hispanics (who make up the bulk of illegal aliens, I think), especially first-generation ones, are some of the hardest working folks anywhere.  Make use of their industriousness, I say.  It isn't practical to think you can deport all of them and it's said that you wouldn't want to do that anyway because of the effect it would have on certain industries. 

So, it's a thorny problem that is particularly fractious for the Repub party, for sure, but I'm not convinced that the Dems main motivation for Immigration Reform is to swell the Dem voting ranks, especially since it's a benefit that will be realized only after at least 10 years.  It's possible, though, I guess.

DO dems have a rich history of voter fraud?  (I really don't know.)  How old is that history?  From what I've read it's very uncommon now.  (An aside: Didn't they make fun of the nerd in The Breakfast Club for having a fake ID so he could vote?)  BTW, supporting the left's contention that the Voter ID laws that are all the rage these days are creating overly difficult obstacles for a small group of some voters, here's a first-hand account of those difficulties that I recently ran across from an American citizen who happened to be born (to military parents) overseas:  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/16/1278075/-Voter-ID-Why-It-s-a-Pain-In-The-Ass

Re:  Letting convicted felons who've served their time vote, how is that not fair?  I think if they're on parole, then not being eligible to vote might be warranted, but for ones who've done their time and are now law-abiding?  This seems short-sighted and not good for society as a whole.  Besides, America locks up so many freakin' folks, particularly black folks, that the idea that felons can never vote sounds intentionally discriminatory to me.  That's just me, though, maybe.

Finally, look at what you say here, "The left's entire philosophy and very reason for existence is based upon widespread poverty and misery."  I don't disagree with this but I'm sure I have a different slant on it than you for I think the alleviation of widespread poverty and misery is the reason for the left's existence. 

Many on the right seem to be perfectly content to live in a world where a small percentage of people are rich, happy and in control while the great majority (70+%) are relatively poor, miserable, and fighting over scraps.  It's just not what the USA is supposed to be about.

No surprise that a some folks on this board who'd give serious consideration to the wisdom of only letting landed folks with money vote would complain about "growing the electorate". 

Thank god the majority in this country are not as fearful and uncaring about their fellow man as many of the insecure folks on this board.  For real.


StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 09:28:51 AM »
It doesn't increase the number of tax payers.  These are unskilled low wage workers who take in ore from benefits than they pay in taxes. You are only good at recycling talking points.

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 09:42:31 AM »
It doesn't increase the number of tax payers.  These are unskilled low wage workers who take in ore from benefits than they pay in taxes.

...

You sure about that?  Is it too much to ask if you could you support that with a little linkage, perhaps?

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 09:50:32 AM »
You sure about that?  Is it too much to ask if you could you support that with a little linkage, perhaps?

You don't understand again? 


Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant population was less than 800,000, compared to nearly 8 million in 2000.

Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in ten natives. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force.

Though most natives are more skilled and thus do not face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants, this study (consistent with previous research) indicates that the more than 10 million natives who lack a high school degree do face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.

By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.

This reduction in wages for the unskilled has likely reduced prices for consumers by only an estimated .08 to .2 percent in the 1990s. The impact is so small because unskilled labor accounts for only a tiny fraction of total economic output.
Author Steven Camarota said of the findings, "Mexican immigration is overwhelmingly unskilled, and it is hard to make an economic argument for unskilled immigration, because it tends to reduce wages for workers who are already the lowest paid and whose real wages actually declined in the 1990s. Moreover, this cheap labor comes with a high cost. Because the modern American economy offers very limited opportunities for workers with little education, continued unskilled immigration cannot help but to significantly increase the size of the poor and uninsured populations, as well as the number of people using welfare."


Because of their much lower education levels, Mexican immigrants earn significantly less than natives on average. This results in lower average tax payments and heavier use of means-tested programs. Based on estimates developed by the National Academy of Sciences for immigrants by age and education at arrival, the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative $55,200.

Although they comprise 4.2 percent of the nation’s total population, Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) account for 10.2 percent of all persons in poverty and 12.5 percent of those without health insurance. Even among Mexican immigrant families that have lived in United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, more than half live in or near poverty and one-third are uninsured

Even after welfare reform, an estimated 34 percent of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants and 25 percent headed by illegal Mexican immigrants used at least one major welfare program, in contrast to 15 percent of native households. Mexican immigrants who have lived in the United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, still have double the welfare use rate of natives.

Mexican immigration acts as a subsidy to businesses that employ unskilled workers, holding down labor costs while taxpayers pick up the costs of providing services to a much larger poor and low-income population.

The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations. The high school dropout rates of native-born Mexican-Americans (both second and third generation) are two and a half times that of other natives.
Policy Recommendations:

The United States needs to consider programs designed to improve the labor market skills of legal Mexican immigrants. It is also absolutely essential that more effort be made to improve educational opportunities for their children so that they will have the skills necessary to compete in the modern American economy. In the future, the United States should also consider policies designed to reduce unskilled legal immigration in general, including from Mexico. Greater resources should also be devoted to stopping illegal immigration, including enforcement of the ban on hiring illegal aliens.

Guestworker programs are unlikely to solve the problems found in the study. By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, a guestworker program would still adversely effect the wages of the lowest-paid American workers. What’s more, unskilled guestworkers would be overwhelmingly poor or near-poor and thus would pay little in taxes and be likely to receive welfare on behalf of their U.S.-born children, just as many illegal immigrants do today. As a result, a guestworker program would almost certainly create significant fiscal costs. Thus, legalizing illegal aliens -- through a guestworker program, an amnesty, or some combination of the two -- would not change the fundamental problems associated with high levels of unskilled immigration.

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2014, 09:52:57 AM »
Between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the in-migration of low-skilled workers. Many American workers lose their jobs through unfair competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration and the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year - FAIR research.

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."

$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - goes directly to Mexico.

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 09:56:20 AM »
The final phase of amnesty is retirement. Unlawful immigrants are not currently eligible for Social Security and Medicare, but under amnesty they would become so. The cost of this change would be very large indeed.
As noted, at the current time (before amnesty), the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household.
During the interim phase immediately after amnesty, tax payments would increase more than government benefits, and the average fiscal deficit for former unlawful immigrant households would fall to $11,455.
At the end of the interim period, unlawful immigrants would become eligible for means-tested welfare and medical subsidies under Obamacare. Average benefits would rise to $43,900 per household; tax payments would remain around $16,000; the average fiscal deficit (benefits minus taxes) would be about $28,000 per household.
Amnesty would also raise retirement costs by making unlawful immigrants eligible for Social Security and Medicare, resulting in a net fiscal deficit of around $22,700 per retired amnesty recipient per year.
In terms of public policy and government deficits, an important figure is the aggregate annual deficit for all unlawful immigrant households. This equals the total benefits and services received by all unlawful immigrant households minus the total taxes paid by those households.
Under current law, all unlawful immigrant households together have an aggregate annual deficit of around $54.5 billion.
In the interim phase (roughly the first 13 years after amnesty), the aggregate annual deficit would fall to $43.4 billion.
At the end of the interim phase, former unlawful immigrant households would become fully eligible for means-tested welfare and health care benefits under the Affordable Care Act. The aggregate annual deficit would soar to around $106 billion.
In the retirement phase, the annual aggregate deficit would be around $160 billion. It would slowly decline as former unlawful immigrants gradually expire.

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2014, 10:04:12 AM »
Compelling stuff, SS4U, thanks. 

Could you please supply the link so I can see who wrote it as well as the date when it was originally written? -- Not to mention that it's a (fairly commonly unenforced) rule of this board to not copy-pasta without supplying the link.

StreetSoldier4U

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 10:09:17 AM »
Compelling stuff, SS4U, thanks. 

Could you please supply the link so I can see who wrote it as well as the date when it was originally written? -- Not to mention that it's a (fairly commonly unenforced) rule of this board to not copy-pasta without supplying the link.


The information is easily researchable.    Get cracking.

RRKore

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Re: Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 10:14:32 AM »

The information is easily researchable.    Get cracking.

'da fuck? 

The only reason I can think of for why you're like this is to get your post count up. 

(Which benefits me, too, lol.)