Author Topic: reps and training  (Read 3021 times)

wgtnmuscle1

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reps and training
« on: January 13, 2006, 10:44:58 PM »
hi all
why is it the mags and vidoes and dvd's say heavy weights and low reps
to build mass
why cant we use heavy weights and high reps ( say 15 per bpdypart excet legs
20+ )

Bluto

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2006, 02:11:27 AM »
because for the most part lower reps and heavy weights do a better job. and high reps will not allow you to lift as heavy. but at the end of the day you do what works for you. some swear by 5-6 reps. ronnie coleman does mostly 12. and some, at least for legs and calves, go as high as 15-20 reps and claim that's the best.
Z

pumpster

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2006, 06:18:41 AM »
You can do that-many use reps in the 10-12 range with heavy weights for size. They do it because it puts the emphasis on the muscle.

With lower reps and heavier weight, my own experience is that the stress is put more on joints, tendons and ligaments and increases the likelihood of injury.

onlyme

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2006, 06:34:38 AM »
Quote
why cant we use heavy weights and high reps ( say 15 per bpdypart excet legs
20+ )

It's not heavy weight if you can do that many reps.  Heavy weight is usually the amount you can do only 4 to 8 reps at the most. 

BigAlski

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2006, 06:48:11 AM »
Yes Onlyme, 8 reps is "high" for heavier compound motions.   You are spot on with that.  It all depends on what you are doing, a compound motion like bench press that involves 3 or 4 muscle groups...6 reps would really be great.  Some cable work where ONE motion at ONE angle is in play, I cannot see 6 reps doing anything, but you won't get any stronger, we all know that. 

pumpster

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2006, 06:57:26 AM »
Heavy weights with moderate 6-12 reps are best for size. With reps lower than that, strength is better developed but for many it's also a nice long-term recipe for injuries and isn't as effective for building muscle. Sets of 15 reps generally isn't going to build size quite as well, but the quality of development will be high and bottom line if it works for & inspires you, that's all that matters.

IMO it's not a coincidence that Coleman keeps the reps moderate, the weight heavy, and has few injury probs.

brianX

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2006, 10:23:15 AM »
12 reps isn't "heavy".
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

pumpster

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2006, 11:02:08 AM »
It is if you have the guts to push heavy weight using moderate reps. Some have gotten beyond the macho man thinking that everything's got to be 4-6 reps with weights that aren't really controllable, aren't hitting the muscles that well, that cause a lot of stress to the body.

Get to 10-12 reps with serious weight and you'll have max. size. Someone named Coleman does this.

brianX

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2006, 12:43:52 PM »
Weight training is supposed to "cause a lot of stress to the body".
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

pumpster

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2006, 01:36:40 PM »
Thank god you brought that up so that you can learn the difference between "good" stress to muscles and "bad" stress that grinds down joints, ligaments and tendons. Those of us who have trained hard for decades already understand.

onlyme

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2006, 01:37:32 PM »
I think the more weight and time you lift the less injuries you will incur from lifting.  You body will adapt to the heavy stress of lifting.  I have always lifted heavy.  I hate doing more than 6 reps.  I have had less than a handfull of injuries from lifting and none that really put me out for anytime from lifting since 1975 or so.  I have NO joint problems to this day or ever have.  I actually tore my chest (minor) from doing light weight for reps with 315.  But I have never hurt myself lifting heavy.  

pumpster

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2006, 01:41:06 PM »
Some are very lucky, are naturally durable and never pay the price.

For the rest, the majority, this luxury isn't available. Both Coleman & Yates are in this category-Ron barely touches low reps except for videos, Yates did and got injured.

Most BBs use moderate reps in the 6-12 range.

JPM

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2006, 07:57:58 PM »
Higher reps can build muscle and the body weight advance that goes with it. Higher reps can also build strength. Twelve reps can be very heavy, 20 reps can be even heavier if not seemly impossible for some. Higher reps work best with compound exercises.You can also call these extended sets. Take doing the DL for example
and your normal capacity is 400lbs for 10 good reps. Those 10 more reps to meet 20 reps will require a mind set to accomplish that. It will also require a few deep breaths between each rep from the start of the DL. This is a form of the Rest-Pause system where between 5 to 12 seconds (or more) are taken before the next rep is started again. At the last 3 or 4 reps you may be taking 8 or 9 breaths because of the intense nature of this style of heavy training.This is the same princple of the breathing squat program and it does work well if the effort is put into it. Than only 1 to 2 sets will be required for any compoumd exercise done in this style. That would be per muscle group. This should be the only case where you come near the point of failure The higher reps also work well when Im on a power rack cycle and doing heavy partials (3 to 5 inch movements) The good thing about higher reps is that the muscles are taking the blunt of the work and not so much the joints themselves, for me anyway. I also do heavy 3X3 in a power rack to encourage more strength to the joints for single efforts.

Counting for higher reps can play games with the mind sometimes, those 20 reps can seem impossible from time to time. Might want to try counting reps another way. Instead of counting the regular 1,2,3,4, etc until the 20th rep is reached, there is another way. Count 1, and ('And' as a rep), 2, and,3,and,4,and,etc, etc. When you get to the number 10 count that will be 19 rep and the final 'And' will be the 20th and last rep. So, in other words the mind connects with the numbers and not the 'And' so it belives that only 10 reps where done rather than the actual 20 reps. Tends to make higher reps a lot easier when the mind thinks it's only counting half of what is really done. An old time PL'er taughts me that once and it worked very well when I was doing very heavy breathing squats for 20 or more reps. Good Luck.

kicker

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 09:26:30 PM »
Higher reps can build muscle and the body weight advance that goes with it. Higher reps can also build strength. Twelve reps can be very heavy, 20 reps can be even heavier if not seemly impossible for some. Higher reps work best with compound exercises.You can also call these extended sets. Take doing the DL for example
and your normal capacity is 400lbs for 10 good reps. Those 10 more reps to meet 20 reps will require a mind set to accomplish that. It will also require a few deep breaths between each rep from the start of the DL. This is a form of the Rest-Pause system where between 5 to 12 seconds (or more) are taken before the next rep is started again. At the last 3 or 4 reps you may be taking 8 or 9 breaths because of the intense nature of this style of heavy training.This is the same princple of the breathing squat program and it does work well if the effort is put into it. Than only 1 to 2 sets will be required for any compoumd exercise done in this style. That would be per muscle group. This should be the only case where you come near the point of failure The higher reps also work well when Im on a power rack cycle and doing heavy partials (3 to 5 inch movements) The good thing about higher reps is that the muscles are taking the blunt of the work and not so much the joints themselves, for me anyway. I also do heavy 3X3 in a power rack to encourage more strength to the joints for single efforts.

Counting for higher reps can play games with the mind sometimes, those 20 reps can seem impossible from time to time. Might want to try counting reps another way. Instead of counting the regular 1,2,3,4, etc until the 20th rep is reached, there is another way. Count 1, and ('And' as a rep), 2, and,3,and,4,and,etc, etc. When you get to the number 10 count that will be 19 rep and the final 'And' will be the 20th and last rep. So, in other words the mind connects with the numbers and not the 'And' so it belives that only 10 reps where done rather than the actual 20 reps. Tends to make higher reps a lot easier when the mind thinks it's only counting half of what is really done. An old time PL'er taughts me that once and it worked very well when I was doing very heavy breathing squats for 20 or more reps. Good Luck.

Extended sets do not work well for some exercises where you can't rest between reps.  FOr example, for bench press, even in lockout position between repetitions you are still expending energy to keep the weight over your head. 

Borracho

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2006, 10:03:47 PM »
Bottom line is if you're trying to gain mass you gotta eat right. And the same is for getting cut, doing 15+ reps is not gonna get you ripped. If anything you'll end up losing muscle cause you're body will no longer have a need for it.

I personally never go above 10 reps on any exercise other than for calves.
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JPM

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Re: reps and training
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2006, 10:17:40 PM »
Kicker: resting the bar on pin's, like in a power rack, and starting each rep from a dead stop is adaptable for this kind of training. Also front presses work well. As said before, this system works better with the big compound exercises. Forget about the little exercises like the curl & laterial raise. Good Luck.

Borracho: This sysyem is for getting muscle mass in a somewhat short period of time. You have to have the muscle size before trying to get "ripped" or your just going to look like skin & bones. I believe your missing the whole point.  Good Luck.