Author Topic: Reverse Dieting: a solution for you low cal keto dieters with sloth-like metabol  (Read 14430 times)

Ace

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Starvation diets are highly moronic if you are a lifetime natural.   

what's ideal cal intake for body recomp purposes in your opinion?

i'd say BWx15-17

Wolfox

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Bump to educate ketotards.  8)
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TEMPER

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Natural pro and powerlifter Devon Palombo uses reverse dieting. And also remains this level of leanness with 500g carb days.

7 days out


2 weeks post show reverse diet.


8 months into reverse diet. 188lbs



Went to vegas and hit the buffet...

Refeed day breakfast


Same day lunch


Pump after 10,000+ cal refeed day.


The kid does know what he's doing lol.."Natural Pro" or whatever...Still gets props from me.

He's famous for his 10k cal brutal refeed days...He's done Youtube vids of an entire 10k cal day and it doesn't even look fun lol looks brutal. But he stays shredded year round doing this..

ProudVirgin69

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If that guy lies about using drugs, why would you believe him when he talks about diet?

TEMPER

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If that guy lies about using drugs, why would you believe him when he talks about diet?

1. I don't think he "lies" about using drugs I just think he wins "Natural" shows...I've never heard him talk about drugs. He passes some form of drug test for the shows, if you want to compete against him, and pass the same tests, feel free. He is definitely not on tons of shit, judging by that stringy shredded look..

2. He has documented his entire life for years on Youtube. Hasn't even made any drastic progress...Still benches like 250 for maybe 10 reps..easily natural numbers -
videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid

3. He is popular and famous in the scene...He does not lie about his diet rofl the kid regularly films himself eating like 5+ full plates of food at Chinese Buffets post workout etc..

TEMPER

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i dont believe in any of that shit

wanna get shredded?

stop eating, the end

Yeah it's not like ALL high level bodybuilders eat like a horses and stay <8% all off-season or anything..Most of them eat the exact same way all the way up to the Olympia except maybe drop carbs a bit and raise doses / add cutting drugs.

Hell Some of them EAT MORE up to shows and just add drugs etc...Lol. Regardless "Stop eating" is complete baloney...




Wolfox

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If that guy lies about using drugs, why would you believe him when he talks about diet?

Dumb logic bro. I ignored gal when he said the same because gal often says stupid stuff but I expect more from you. Layne has a phd in nutritional science. He has probably read every published study that's even remotely related to his field. For years now he has coached professionals and amateurs with a long client list...he has ALOT of data to pull from.

Did you even watch the video? Are his clients in on the scam? What about other coaches that have seen the same thing happen and use reverse dieting too? Did Layne secretly throw a few hundred to Disgusted too?

Also, dude has gotten lean as fuck himself, competed, and went pro.

As for the natty debate that's just stupid and pointless.

A

galeniko

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i dont believe in any of that shit

wanna get shredded?

stop eating, the end
yah in the end it always comes down to this.

sure its easy to talk theory about diet when sitting at 10% fat or more.

everythung will work there.i could eat 4000cals every day and be 10% year round.

so what.

btw yeah the other way to increase metablism is increasing activity.give that litle more food and will help to be much more active,

and no shit the liar palubo guy above, i have 1000gramms of pure sugar days and always shredded, doent mean a thing.
try doing that for 1 week and see what happpens.
a well times carbing up wont make anyone fat,if they been depleted and return afterwars to dieting.

at 10% everything gonna work, i could literaly eat half the calories from chocolate and be 10%.

and yes, when very shredded cane at more, simply bc the body has no fat deposits to take any energy from nomore.

however i see fatties talking about metabolic damage and they nowhere remotely cole to lean to be needed any metabolic boost.they dont know the first damn thing.

sure they can diet slowly on what do i know 2500cals and itll take an eternity to get even 10%.

those are the baby steps,i did that what feels like 100 years ago,the first time breaking intot he single digits.

this is childsplay for me these day, one who knows his body can just crash the cals and then keep tight, no panic and will be shredded in least possible timeframe.

if the fat fucks need more cals and therefore time bc theyre pussies oh well, they can have that,its their time ;D

bw agreing with adonis a natural should crash the cals as badly, obviously.

so lets lay out the classical diet.

say start at 3000clas day.couple weeks then must go to 2500,etc,etc, and they all end up at the end eating mostly protein and bit carbs or bit fats anyway.

so can one explain to me, why the high calories part cant be skipped?what will happen if its skipped?

ofc i know the replies,its more to make ppl think.

heres another bit reality.

so if someone by change happens to get shredded on high calories,without 2 times a day lifting + 2hrs cardio and construction job(ill believe it when i see it, so far in 20 years i didnt see it guess why)
what do they think, will they be able to hld the condition when upping the cals by 500every day?

haha, let me tell you all upfront right on the spot, its not going to happen.

being shredded long term has nothing to do with calories,it has to do with consistenly and always only eating when hungry.

dont believe it?try for yourself.

wolfox im disapointed by you, lay norton looks like shit unless very few last weeks before a show.
theres nothing to learn from him.

why isnt he lean year round if its so easy?
n

Wolfox

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yah in the end it always comes down to this.

sure its easy to talk theory about diet when sitting at 10% fat or more.

everythung will work there.i could eat 4000cals every day and be 10% year round.

so what.

btw yeah the other way to increase metablism is increasing activity.give that litle more food and will help to be much more active,

and no shit the liar palubo guy above, i have 1000gramms of pure sugar days and always shredded, doent mean a thing.
try doing that for 1 week and see what happpens.
a well times carbing up wont make anyone fat,if they been depleted and return afterwars to dieting.

at 10% everything gonna work, i could literaly eat half the calories from chocolate and be 10%.

and yes, when very shredded cane at more, simply bc the body has no fat deposits to take any energy from nomore.

however i see fatties talking about metabolic damage and they nowhere remotely cole to lean to be needed any metabolic boost.they dont know the first damn thing.

sure they can diet slowly on what do i know 2500cals and itll take an eternity to get even 10%.

those are the baby steps,i did that what feels like 100 years ago,the first time breaking intot he single digits.

this is childsplay for me these day, one who knows his body can just crash the cals and then keep tight, no panic and will be shredded in least possible timeframe.

if the fat fucks need more cals and therefore time bc theyre pussies oh well, they can have that,its their time ;D

bw agreing with adonis a natural should crash the cals as badly, obviously.

so lets lay out the classical diet.

say start at 3000clas day.couple weeks then must go to 2500,etc,etc, and they all end up at the end eating mostly protein and bit carbs or bit fats anyway.

so can one explain to me, why the high calories part cant be skipped?what will happen if its skipped?

ofc i know the replies,its more to make ppl think.

heres another bit reality.

so if someone by change happens to get shredded on high calories,without 2 times a day lifting + 2hrs cardio and construction job(ill believe it when i see it, so far in 20 years i didnt see it guess why)
what do they think, will they be able to hld the condition when upping the cals by 500every day?

haha, let me tell you all upfront right on the spot, its not going to happen.

being shredded long term has nothing to do with calories,it has to do with consistenly and always only eating when hungry.

dont believe it?try for yourself.

wolfox im disapointed by you, lay norton looks like shit unless very few last weeks before a show.
theres nothing to learn from him.

why isnt he lean year round if its so easy?

Gal, seriously, did you even watch the video? He explains it in the video. Gives you data in the video. He answers your questions - especially your last question - in the video.
A

TEMPER

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Gal, seriously, did you even watch the video? He explains it in the video. Gives you data in the video. He answers your questions - especially your last question - in the video.

Not even worth it dude...Guy claims eating 1,000 calories or less is the only way like gospel...Meanwhile there are dudes eating 500g of carbs every single day staying shredded...I mean there is no point in arguing with him.

monstermunch

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Not even worth it dude...Guy claims eating 1,000 calories or less is the only way like gospel...Meanwhile there are dudes eating 500g of carbs every single day staying shredded...I mean there is no point in arguing with him.

Not the only way, the quickest way.

The True Adonis

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Naturals look so much better than juicers.  Less size and more angular look to the muscles is the best look.

ProudVirgin69

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Dumb logic bro. I ignored gal when he said the same because gal often says stupid stuff but I expect more from you. Layne has a phd in nutritional science. He has probably read every published study that's even remotely related to his field. For years now he has coached professionals and amateurs with a long client list...he has ALOT of data to pull from.

Did you even watch the video? Are his clients in on the scam? What about other coaches that have seen the same thing happen and use reverse dieting too? Did Layne secretly throw a few hundred to Disgusted too?

Also, dude has gotten lean as fuck himself, competed, and went pro.

As for the natty debate that's just stupid and pointless.



Relax homeboy, I wasnt talking about the Layne Norton video, but the Facebook pages of the "drug-free" powerlifter/bodybuilder.  A lot of people like to lie and act like they can eat whatever and still get shredded, just to seem special. *cough True Adonis*

I have no real beef with Layne Norton...I don't think he's natural, but he's accomplished a lot in bodybuilding and powerlifting.  If his approach works best for you, sounds like its a winner.

There are many paths to the top of Mount Fuji

The True Adonis

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Relax homeboy, I wasnt talking about the Layne Norton video, but the Facebook pages of the "drug-free" powerlifter/bodybuilder.  A lot of people like to lie and act like they can eat whatever and still get shredded, just to seem special. *cough True Adonis*

I have no real beef with Layne Norton...I don't think he's natural, but he's accomplished a lot in bodybuilding and powerlifting.  If his approach works best for you, sounds like its a winner.

There are many paths to the top of Mount Fuji
How am I lying?  Want to see what I ate yesterday?

Disgusted

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OK I'm gonna just start rambling here and hopefully will touch upon what this guy is talking about. As I said I didn't watch the video, but I believe I got an overview of what it is about. I have always stressed to my clients that it is advantageous to stay lean, especially after a show. In fact after a show is the perfect time for someone to start a growth cycle. Generally at this time the body is so ready to start eating again and will soak up nutrients.

Ideally if someone came to me to prep them for a show they would be about 12 to 14 weeks out and at around 12% or so BF. This give me plenty of time to get someone in shape and they do don't have to suffer too much or at least not until the very end. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen. So, let's say someone comes to me at around 18 to 20% and they are about 20 weeks out. It is then that I would have to cut calories accordingly to make sure they are in shape or at least as ripped as possible given the time frame. It's not always possible to get someone shredded if they are too out of shape but I will explain this to them and if they are happy with being very lean then we will go for it. If they are too fat I tell them to wait.

So there are times when I may start someone on very low cals say around 1500 or I may stagger there cals on certain days. There are many variable here as far as what can effect fat loss and the rate at how fast it can be lost, many different drugs which in general I do not like to use until 6 weeks out if I have to at all. Also, there is cardio and I will def use it if need be.

So lets assume that this fellow got very lean and his caloric intake was anywhere between 1500 to 1800 calories and sometimes as low as 1000 on some days. After the show if he decides he still wants to be a part of this drug infested crazy sport  ;D  I would not only advise him to stay lean but would recommend he uses this time to grow. I would slowly start to add calories and yes I also will add some carbs. I may start at 2000 and go up about 200 per week until I see him trying to lay down some fat. This approach has worked well for me in the past, but most people do not have the discipline to do this especially right after a show.

So can a person slow down their metabo or increase it? Well that's kind of a loaded question. If I take this same person and do his prep again and instead of him starting out at 20% BF he starts at say 8% he maybe able to diet on 3000 or more cals for the most part until it's time to cut them as the show gets nearer. So has his metabo increased because he is now dieting on more calories? The answer to that is no. He's just starting out leaner and doesn't have to go into such a deficit this time because of a certain time schedule.

Regardless if you are a BBer or just the average Joe there are people who will crash diet on say for example 1000 cals. The body will do what ever it can to fend off starvation. Of course no matter what it does to slow it's own metabolism down one can eventually starve to death. Also, depending on what type of diet you are on say a very low fat diet you can be unable to make certain hormones and you thyroid may also suffer further screwing things up. I have seen people diet on extremely low fat diets and really fuck themselves up after a while. It's much more advantageous when dieting on a very low cal diet to go no carbs then almost no fat.

So the person who is at one end of the spectrum after dieting on extremely low cals for an extended period of time will benefit from added calories which in turn can bring you metabolism back to a more optimal level which in turn can help you to start losing fat again. So it's not necessarily that you have miraculously speed up a persons metabo to above optimal levels, more the fact that you have brought them back to normal from a suboptimal state. As I said earlier there are many variables as to how many calories one can eat while either gaining, maintaining or losing body fat. If someone is eating 500 grams of carbs a day and getting the minimum amount of fats and protein he can certainly stay lean and there is no mystery as to why.

We all have our min and max amount of calories that we can eat as a healthy person as far as losing maintaining or gaining fat while doing X amount of exercise per day. If one increases their calorie expenditure through exercise or the use of drugs then that person will start to lose body fat, but we can maximize our metabolism only to the point that it is humanly possible to do so. There is no way to "trick" our bodies into raising it's metabolism through food manipulation over and above optimal healthy levels.  Please read that again as this is key. Hope this was helpful to some of you.

TEMPER

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Not the only way, the quickest way.

Quick, and losing fat do not belong in the same sentence...You will incinerate muscle on a low calorie diet period..The entire point of being lean is to be huge, no one cares about the lean skinny little punk with abs..


On all the drugs in the world pro's still take 3 months to go from <10% to stage shape...Think about that. And they do it eating huge piles of food 6 times per day or more..

If I'm 230lbs at 10% and I maintain that on 3,500 cals a day...I will hit 9% on 3,250 cals for 3 weeks, 8% on 3,000, 7% on 3,000 with clen, 6% on 3,000 with clen and t3, and 6% - stage on lowering carbs.

Absolutely no reason to ever eat 1,000 calories per day lol...It's ludicrous.

The True Adonis

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OK I'm gonna just start rambling here and hopefully will touch upon what this guy is talking about. As I said I didn't watch the video, but I believe I got an overview of what it is about. I have always stressed to my clients that it is advantageous to stay lean, especially after a show. In fact after a show is the perfect time for someone to start a growth cycle. Generally at this time the body is so ready to start eating again and will soak up nutrients.

Ideally if someone came to me to prep them for a show they would be about 12 to 14 weeks out and at around 12% or so BF. This give me plenty of time to get someone in shape and they do don't have to suffer too much or at least not until the very end. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen. So, let's say someone comes to me at around 18 to 20% and they are about 20 weeks out. It is then that I would have to cut calories accordingly to make sure they are in shape or at least as ripped as possible given the time frame. It's not always possible to get someone shredded if they are too out of shape but I will explain this to them and if they are happy with being very lean then we will go for it. If they are too fat I tell them to wait.

So there are times when I may start someone on very low cals say around 1500 or I may stagger there cals on certain days. There are many variable here as far as what can effect fat loss and the rate at how fast it can be lost, many different drugs which in general I do not like to use until 6 weeks out if I have to at all. Also, there is cardio and I will def use it if need be.

So lets assume that this fellow got very lean and his caloric intake was anywhere between 1500 to 1800 calories and sometimes as low as 1000 on some days. After the show if he decides he still wants to be a part of this drug infested crazy sport  ;D  I would not only advise him to stay lean but would recommend he uses this time to grow. I would slowly start to add calories and yes I also will add some carbs. I may start at 2000 and go up about 200 per week until I see him trying to lay down some fat. This approach has worked well for me in the past, but most people do not have the discipline to do this especially right after a show.

So can a person slow down their metabo or increase it? Well that's kind of a loaded question. If I take this same person and do his prep again and instead of him starting out at 20% BF he starts at say 8% he maybe able to diet on 3000 or more cals for the most part until it's time to cut them as the show gets nearer. So has his metabo increased because he is now dieting on more calories? The answer to that is no. He's just starting out leaner and doesn't have to go into such a deficit this time because of a certain time schedule.

Regardless if you are a BBer or just the average Joe there are people who will crash diet on say for example 1000 cals. The body will do what ever it can to fend off starvation. Of course no matter what it does to slow it's own metabolism down one can eventually starve to death. Also, depending on what type of diet you are on say a very low fat diet you can be unable to make certain hormones and you thyroid may also suffer further screwing things up. I have seen people diet on extremely low fat diets and really fuck themselves up after a while. It's much more advantageous when dieting on a very low cal diet to go no carbs then almost no fat.

So the person who is at one end of the spectrum after dieting on extremely low cals for an extended period of time will benefit from added calories which in turn can bring you metabolism back to a more optimal level which in turn can help you to start losing fat again. So it's not necessarily that you have miraculously speed up a persons metabo to above optimal levels, more the fact that you have brought them back to normal from a suboptimal state. As I said earlier there are many variables as to how many calories one can eat while either maintaining or losing body fat. If someone is eating 500 grams of carbs a day and getting the minimum amount of fats and protein he can certainly stay lean and there is no mystery as to why.

We all have our min and max amount of calories that we can eat as a healthy person as far as losing maintaining or gaining fat while doing X amount of exercise per day. If one increases their calorie expenditure through exercise or the use of drugs then that person will start to lose body fat, but we can maximize our metabolism only to the point that it is humanly possible to do so. There is no way to "trick" our bodies into raising it's metabolism through food manipulation over and above optimal healthy levels.  Please read that again as this is key. Hope this was helpful to some of you.
This was a VERY good post!

Disgusted

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TEMPER

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Thank you.  :)


Starting someone who has no business competing in the first place, being 20% bf means they are are beyond retarded, on essentially a crash diet i.e. 1500 cals a day...Lol STARTING a diet on 1,500 calories per day...Do you even realize how fucking stupid this is? Where do you go from there?...20% bf on 1,500 cals rofl they are skinny-fat on whatever they are eating so you immediately....wow

Wow you are just too stupid for words lol. "Expert" tag I love it. Fucking logging off this pathetic site before I lose it.

ProudVirgin69

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How am I lying?  Want to see what I ate yesterday?

I'd be more interested in a photo from yesterday that demonstrates your current condition, but I know you'll never post one

Disgusted

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Starting someone who has no business competing in the first place, being 20% bf means they are are beyond retarded, on essentially a crash diet i.e. 1500 cals a day...Lol STARTING a diet on 1,500 calories per day...Do you even realize how fucking stupid this is? Where do you go from there?...20% bf on 1,500 cals rofl they are skinny-fat on whatever they are eating so you immediately....wow

Wow you are just too stupid for words lol. "Expert" tag I love it. Fucking logging off this pathetic site before I lose it.

Thanks for clarifying that. Maybe someday you can school me on all this diet science. It gets confusing at times.  ;)

Wolfox

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I wonder if we could get Layne Norton to post here. Im too lazy to find a way to get into contact with him... anyone else wanna try?
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The True Adonis

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Starting someone who has no business competing in the first place, being 20% bf means they are are beyond retarded, on essentially a crash diet i.e. 1500 cals a day...Lol STARTING a diet on 1,500 calories per day...Do you even realize how fucking stupid this is? Where do you go from there?...20% bf on 1,500 cals rofl they are skinny-fat on whatever they are eating so you immediately....wow

Wow you are just too stupid for words lol. "Expert" tag I love it. Fucking logging off this pathetic site before I lose it.
Temper,

I think there are a lot of people who are around that body fat and may want to compete in a show in X weeks.  If they come to Disgusted for help, I think the only logical thing to do in that case is to drop their calories low in order to hopefully be ready for that show or whatever.  I am a "high" calorie/reverse diet/eat whatever you want advocate of course, but sometimes the opposite will have to be undertaken say if someone comes to Disgusted and wants to be ready in 12-14 weeks and is relatively fat.  Then I do think drastic measures have to be taken.  Ideally they would just choose another show, but that is not always the case.


snx

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Disgusted is right. So is Gal. So is TA. If you read their posts, they're in agreement on some core fundamentals (the time and place for low cal diets, the ability to "eat more" once you're lean and you ladder up the metabolism).

Make no mistake about it though, if you're 8 percent, you can't just ramp up to 7K calories per day (let's say you weigh under 200lbs) and stay super lean forever. You will get fat eventually.

If you're fat, you'll have to starve and work hard to get lean. Then, once you're lean, you can intelligently and gradually increase calories. If you stay disciplined to a daily caloric intake (as TA has always advised) then you can manage your bodyfat as you increase calories gradually.

At a certain tipping point, your ability to grow will plateau, and a continual increase in calories will lay down too much bodyfat for the lean mass gain. This is when many an off season bodybuilder has thrown caution to the wind, subscribed to the "more is more" mentality, and gone hog wild with the food. And then bloated up to 25 percent bodyfat off season. Then, the whole process of starving down to a show in 16 weeks repeats itself.

Nothing new has been said here that we don't all know. And we've all known this for years, it's just that it's hard work, and we all like the neatest newest dieting trick or the program we don't know about yet. But here's the truisms we all know to be just that...truisms;


1. don't get too fat
2. if you want to do a show, don't start your diet at too fat a phase. Get to 10 or 12 percent gradually, then think about a show
3. if you stay as disciplined in the off season with caloric intake as you do pre-season, you will find you can more effectively manage bodyfat and not get too out of shape too fast before you can do something positive about it. Don't sweat the macros or meal timing too much...do sweat the caloric intake. This allows you to diet for fewer weeks in your next show, and not have to drop calories as low to get in shape (you're carrying less bodyfat, so this really makes sense)

I like the moniker "reverse dieting"...nice marketing tactic on an old trick every bodybuilder who's done a few shows has known about for decades. Everything in this sport gets recycled and sold as new magic over and over again. We're pretty foolish for falling for it every time.

There are no secrets. Watch what you eat. Don't be a pig. Go to the gym and lift pretty often and try to push yourself. Get some rest. Don't stress about it all...it takes time. Maybe get laid in between to pass the time.







The True Adonis

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Disgusted is right. So is Gal. So is TA. If you read their posts, they're in agreement on some core fundamentals (the time and place for low cal diets, the ability to "eat more" once you're lean and you ladder up the metabolism).

Make no mistake about it though, if you're 8 percent, you can't just ramp up to 7K calories per day (let's say you weigh under 200lbs) and stay super lean forever. You will get fat eventually.

If you're fat, you'll have to starve and work hard to get lean. Then, once you're lean, you can intelligently and gradually increase calories. If you stay disciplined to a daily caloric intake (as TA has always advised) then you can manage your bodyfat as you increase calories gradually.

At a certain tipping point, your ability to grow will plateau, and a continual increase in calories will lay down too much bodyfat for the lean mass gain. This is when many an off season bodybuilder has thrown caution to the wind, subscribed to the "more is more" mentality, and gone hog wild with the food. And then bloated up to 25 percent bodyfat off season. Then, the whole process of starving down to a show in 16 weeks repeats itself.

Nothing new has been said here that we don't all know. And we've all known this for years, it's just that it's hard work, and we all like the neatest newest dieting trick or the program we don't know about yet. But here's the truisms we all know to be just that...truisms;


1. don't get too fat
2. if you want to do a show, don't start your diet at too fat a phase. Get to 10 or 12 percent gradually, then think about a show
3. if you stay as disciplined in the off season with caloric intake as you do pre-season, you will find you can more effectively manage bodyfat and not get too out of shape too fast before you can do something positive about it. Don't sweat the macros or meal timing too much...do sweat the caloric intake. This allows you to diet for fewer weeks in your next show, and not have to drop calories as low to get in shape (you're carrying less bodyfat, so this really makes sense)

I like the moniker "reverse dieting"...nice marketing tactic on an old trick every bodybuilder who's done a few shows has known about for decades. Everything in this sport gets recycled and sold as new magic over and over again. We're pretty foolish for falling for it every time.

There are no secrets. Watch what you eat. Don't be a pig. Go to the gym and lift pretty often and try to push yourself. Get some rest. Don't stress about it all...it takes time. Maybe get laid in between to pass the time.







I was going to post pretty much the same thing, but now there is no need.  ;)

Great post!