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Author Topic: I assume most are "HARD-GAINERS"  (Read 19360 times)
MCWAY
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« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2006, 07:33:06 AM »


Yeah liquid meals are great for people who have a hard time eating enough. A definite advantage of being a little older is that gains can be made with less calories than when you were older. I used to consume aprox. 7000 cals a day and had to fight to gain mass, now I can easily do it with 4500-5000 cals.



I certainly don't miss those days of feeling bloated, having ingested 4000 calories, sipping a seemingly bottomless mug of protein drink, knowing that I still had about 2000 calories yet to consume.

But, the weirdest thing was that, no matter how stuffed I was going to bed, my stomach would be growling severly in the morning, as if I hadn't eaten a thing in days.



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myseone
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« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2006, 05:59:03 PM »

I certainly don't miss those days of feeling bloated, having ingested 4000 calories, sipping a seemingly bottomless mug of protein drink, knowing that I still had about 2000 calories yet to consume.

But, the weirdest thing was that, no matter how stuff I was going to bed, my stomach would be growling severly in the morning, as if I hadn't eaten a thing in days.






Yeah I used to drink two servings of Mega mass 2000 a day, a long with copious amounts of chicken, ground meat, potatoes, bread, and what ever else I could shove down. Walking around bloated was not fun.

If I had to do it again, I would'nt have stuffed myself though, force feeding is a losing proposition. I think slow to medium gains over the long haul is the way to go.

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MCWAY
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« Reply #102 on: July 01, 2006, 08:35:17 AM »


Yeah I used to drink two servings of Mega mass 2000 a day, a long with copious amounts of chicken, ground meat, potatoes, bread, and what ever else I could shove down. Walking around bloated was not fun.

If I had to do it again, I would'nt have stuffed myself though, force feeding is a losing proposition. I think slow to medium gains over the long haul is the way to go.



In a way, I feel that's the way to go as well. But, when I was younger, I don't think that would have worked. The example I gave (regarding what I did ten years ago, gaining 21 lbs in three months) was a BIG boost to me. It made me believe that I could make serious gains in size and mass WITHOUT using anabolics.

Even if half of that weight was fat, that's still 10.5 lbs of lean mass in a three-month span of time. To wait a year (or longer) to gain that kind of mass would have been discouraging, to say the least.

When I first broke 240, I enjoyed the fact that I was the biggest I'd ever been in my life. And, I could still see my abs (somewhat). However, my biceps disappeared. My arms were just two limbs.

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myseone
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« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2006, 07:58:30 PM »

In a way, I feel that's the way to go as well. But, when I was younger, I don't think that would have worked. The example I gave (regarding what I did ten years ago, gaining 21 lbs in three months) was a BIG boost to me. It made me believe that I could make serious gains in size and mass WITHOUT using anabolics.

Even if half of that weight was fat, that's still 10.5 lbs of lean mass in a three-month span of time. To wait a year (or longer) to gain that kind of mass would have been discouraging, to say the least.

When I first broke 240, I enjoyed the fact that I was the biggest I'd ever been in my life. And, I could still see my abs (somewhat). However, my biceps disappeared. My arms were just two limbs.



Yeah I see your point, different mind set back then.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2006, 11:10:51 AM »

Yeah I see your point, different mind set back then.

The biggest problem I have now is the temptation to go back to the old ways, when the gains start to stall. If I hit a sticking point, sometimes, I'm just itching to get that bag of Mega Mass or that bucket of N-Large2 and act a fool.

I was using gainers as recently as September of last year. I hit 252 lbs. and benched 405 for the first time EVER. But, my waist took a beating, particularly on the sides. One day, I hope to push that kind of iron again, but with a leaner physique.
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myseone
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« Reply #105 on: July 09, 2006, 11:29:47 AM »

The biggest problem I have now is the temptation to go back to the old ways, when the gains start to stall. If I hit a sticking point, sometimes, I'm just itching to get that bag of Mega Mass or that bucket of N-Large2 and act a fool.

I was using gainers as recently as September of last year. I hit 252 lbs. and benched 405 for the first time EVER. But, my waist took a beating, particularly on the sides. One day, I hope to push that kind of iron again, but with a leaner physique.

Yeah the extra calories definitely helps the strength levels, also helps the low handles. I don't think that this would be a bad way to go for 3-4 months out of the year though. Congrats on the lifting achievement, You did it before you can do it agai a bit leaner.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2006, 12:03:19 PM »

Yeah the extra calories definitely helps the strength levels, also helps the low handles. I don't think that this would be a bad way to go for 3-4 months out of the year though. Congrats on the lifting achievement, You did it before you can do it agai a bit leaner.

It also helps with the joints. When I started trimming down, my elbows were KILLING me. I had to eliminate certain triceps exercises, because the pain was getting to be too much. My elbows are fine now, but I've virtually eliminated overhead barbell extensions, and any other exercise where my forearms go upward. Now, I use dips, pushdowns, and an old-school exercise that not a lot of people do, the pullover-and-press.
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Oliver Klaushof
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« Reply #107 on: July 09, 2006, 01:18:35 PM »

I had the same problem with elbow pain from doing overhead tricep extensions. Now I lay on my back and do them, elbow 90degrees to my chest. I extend it straight out. Not sure what that's called.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2006, 02:06:03 AM »

I had the same problem with elbow pain from doing overhead tricep extensions. Now I lay on my back and do them, elbow 90degrees to my chest. I extend it straight out. Not sure what that's called.

Aren't those French presses? Those hurt my elbows as well. But, the thing was that, when I was heaiver, doing overhead barbell (and dumbbell) triceps extensions didn't hurt my elbows at all. When my weight started coming down....YYEEEEOOOOOOWWW!!! Serious pain!

I even bought some Glucosamine capsules. But, since dropping those exercises (and well as not doing shoulder presses with 100-105 lb. dumbbells), my elbows feel just fine. In fact, I haven't even cracked open that bottle of pills yet.
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Oliver Klaushof
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« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2006, 05:01:27 PM »

I read in some mag that it's easier on the joints to lift when you're heavy because you have more lubrication on the joints. Probably why.
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myseone
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« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2006, 08:42:10 PM »

It also helps with the joints. When I started trimming down, my elbows were KILLING me. I had to eliminate certain triceps exercises, because the pain was getting to be too much. My elbows are fine now, but I've virtually eliminated overhead barbell extensions, and any other exercise where my forearms go upward. Now, I use dips, pushdowns, and an old-school exercise that not a lot of people do, the pullover-and-press.

I think that the joint pain comes from the reduced fluid volume in the muscles and around the joints, due to the lowered carb intake that is in fashion today. Since carbs hold onto water. I have found that taking creatine helps in this regard, but then again I never go low on the carbs.

Also taking the ephedrine, asprin, caffeine stack tends to dehydrate the body which can lead to joint issues.

The pulloer and press, awesome movement.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #111 on: July 25, 2006, 08:04:57 AM »

I think that the joint pain comes from the reduced fluid volume in the muscles and around the joints, due to the lowered carb intake that is in fashion today. Since carbs hold onto water. I have found that taking creatine helps in this regard, but then again I never go low on the carbs.

Also taking the ephedrine, asprin, caffeine stack tends to dehydrate the body which can lead to joint issues.

The pulloer and press, awesome movement.

I read about that exercise in an issue of IronMan magazine from the mid 90s. A guy named Johnny McWilliams used it, supposedly getting his arms to 20" inches, drug-free. If I remember correctly, the pics showed he had a huge (albeit smooth) biceps and triceps.

Another exercise I love is the bench dips. The problem is that, without weights in my laps, I can do lots of them which doesn't really help my arms grow. And, piling too many plates in my laps is dangerous; I almost twisted my knee doing it.

So, I've found a way to duplicate the movement safely, using one of three types of machines:

1) The assisted chin/dip-machine, where your hands are on the platform where you rest your feet or knees. Simply sit on the rails (or squat in between them, depending on the type of machine) and push down on the platform.

2) Ab Crunch machine: If you have the kind with the rectangular pads, where you rest your chest on it and lean foward, all you have to do is push it downward, get in position, and start doing the dip motion, the rest of the way down.

3) Hammer Strength Seated Leg Curl machine: Same principle as the Ab Crunch machine.

That's how I've learned to train my triceps, while having mercy on my elbows. As for ephedrine, the last time I used any ephedra/ma huang product extensively was 2002; that was the old Hydroxycut. It worked well; but, I don't care for the heart-jumping-out-of-the-chest feeling ma huang tends to give.

2003 was the last time I used any product with ma huang. That was Nitro-Glycerol. But, I only used it, because it was an RTD with 50 grams of protein that GNC had marked down for $0.50, and I was looking for protein supplements, not fat-burners/thermogenics.
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« Reply #112 on: August 08, 2006, 08:44:08 AM »


Yeah I used to drink two servings of Mega mass 2000 a day, a long with copious amounts of chicken, ground meat, potatoes, bread, and what ever else I could shove down. Walking around bloated was not fun.

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have stuffed myself though, force feeding is a losing proposition. I think slow to medium gains over the long haul is the way to go.

Definitely!
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« Reply #113 on: August 08, 2006, 09:43:44 AM »

i've found the reason most natural guys cry hard gainer is because they either don't eat enough to constitute any kind of gains, don't work on on a regular basis and monitor progress, or don't lift like they're there to get big.


I've only taken ONE cycle in my life..and have gained more in the past 6 months OFF the juice than I did when I was on it...granted i liked the recovery and quicker gains, but once everything got lined up like it was supposed to be...i'm benching 425 now without the aid of pharmeceuticals.


i'ts all a state of mind. I'm tired of hearing this word used WAY too much in the gym by people that have used the same amount of weight every time they've shown up or refuse to train accessory muslce groups for the bigger lifts.
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #114 on: August 08, 2006, 09:44:53 AM »

Quote
The whole "hardgainer" thing is a myth. It's just an excuse to train like a sissy.




best post in this whole thread right HERE!
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Nathan
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« Reply #115 on: August 09, 2006, 09:23:41 AM »

Hardgainers=People that don't eat enough!Or get enough rest also.

You forgot, don't train with true intensity!

thats pritty much the simplest way to put it all in a nut shell.
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« Reply #116 on: September 04, 2006, 10:38:32 AM »

You forgot, don't train with true intensity!

thats pritty much the simplest way to put it all in a nut shell.

It's not so much training with intensity, as it is recovering from such. Part of that, of course, is consuming the right quality and quantity of calories.

As I said before, I eat fewer calories now than I did years back. Weight gainers aren't part of my diet and supplement regime anynore. Ten years ago, I lived off them. Back then, I need the extra calories, 5000-6500, to get the job done. I don't need that much to grow anymore.

Again, if you weigh 150 and gain 5-10 lbs. of muscle in a year, you've merely gone from being a twig to a slightly less scrawny twig. That's hardly enough motivation to keep training and buying food and supplements.

If, however, you put on, say, 30-40 lbs. in three or four months, you'll be psyched and want to keep training. Even if half that weight gain is fat, you still have 15-20 lbs. of muscle on your frame. Furthermore, the more gains you make early on, the less likely you are to use anabolics.

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« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2006, 07:22:28 AM »




best post in this whole thread right HERE!

Nah, I don't believe that. You were closer about the lack of eating IMO.

I'm a "hard gainer" simply because I'm genetically predispositioned not to store weight. I have to eat a shitload of food to grow. I train like a mad man, yet because of lack of food, I hardly grow at all. That's my reason, anyway. It's not possible for me to train any harder.
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« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2006, 07:49:36 AM »

whether you like the word hardgainer or not it is a fact that some grow easier than others. what's "hard" about it? it's harder because you have to eat more and train a certain way when others can train pretty much in any way and eat little and always make more progress. stupid thing to say that it doesn't exist. what if you have naturally low testosterone? can't grow much without that. If there's no such thing then there's no such thing as genetics. why's cutler 60 pounds heavier than troy alves? why did it take kris dim way longer than other bodybuilders to put on size? How stupid is it that everyone here is always saying "wow great genetics" or "horrible genetics" but are still saying there's no such thing as a hardgainer. it's a genetic thing.
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MCWAY
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« Reply #119 on: September 07, 2006, 08:58:52 PM »

whether you like the word hardgainer or not it is a fact that some grow easier than others. what's "hard" about it? it's harder because you have to eat more and train a certain way when others can train pretty much in any way and eat little and always make more progress. stupid thing to say that it doesn't exist. what if you have naturally low testosterone? can't grow much without that. If there's no such thing then there's no such thing as genetics. why's cutler 60 pounds heavier than troy alves? why did it take kris dim way longer than other bodybuilders to put on size? How stupid is it that everyone here is always saying "wow great genetics" or "horrible genetics" but are still saying there's no such thing as a hardgainer. it's a genetic thing.

The emphasis here is that far too many of the "hardgainer's" woes are self-inflicted.
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« Reply #120 on: September 07, 2006, 10:03:22 PM »

STUART MC ROBERT SUMMED IT UP IN HIS BOOK BRAWN
WHERE HE STATED THAT MOST EASY GAINERS CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND THE PLIGHT OF THE HARDGAINER BECAUSE THEY TRAIN AND THEY GROW
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GoneAway
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Thankyou, GetBig. Time to move on at 5000.


« Reply #121 on: September 08, 2006, 12:38:39 AM »

STUART MC ROBERT SUMMED IT UP IN HIS BOOK BRAWN
WHERE HE STATED THAT MOST EASY GAINERS CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND THE PLIGHT OF THE HARDGAINER BECAUSE THEY TRAIN AND THEY GROW

Great point, and IMO most hardgainers don't understand that they need to eat and train differently than the easy gainer to get results.
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gibberj2
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« Reply #122 on: September 08, 2006, 04:59:59 AM »

MCWAY start out by saying what the woes are. then how they are self inflicted.
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« Reply #123 on: September 08, 2006, 06:51:56 AM »

Nothing in life is either "hard" or "easy." The Law of Relativity says that nothing has any value until compared to something else.

People who label themselves hargainers are comparing themselves to people the "wish" they were like. This is not a healthy mental approach.

You only have your own body. It's you against you. That's it.

Wouldn't you go through the process with a lot less frustration by not labeling yourself a hardgainer?

What purpose does that serve?

And, if you insist on calling yourself a hardgainer, you better sure as hell never miss a workout and never skip a meal. If you aren't doing all of the basiscs and are still blaming your lack of success (which iss all relative), then calling yourself a hardgainer is just your excuse and a diversion.

A self-proclaimed hardgainer, in my humble opinion, will not have the mental fortitude to get the job done day in and day out.

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yangmian
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« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2006, 09:59:44 PM »

Great point, and IMO most hardgainers don't understand that they need to eat and train differently than the easy gainer to get results.
i agree thats why they should all read brawn that book would put more people on the right path than any of these message boards
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