As I said all along...Clive Bundy is a piece of shit

[Archer77]

Because the government usually works at a sloths pace.  Why do you think it takes years for the government to notice that some people have evaded taxes?

In this case, 20 years was enough. Now, in your opinion, why do you think this Bundy guy deserves a break?

The government also remembers ruby ridge and waco and doesnt want a repeat.  In my opinion,  this is why the feds backed down.

[Kazan]

Isnt bundy lining his pockets at tax payers expense?  Hes profitting off of public land.  Where is the tax payers cut?  He doesnt pay to maintain the land he uses.

So you think it's OK for the BLM to simple decide to raise the grazing fee's so high as to put ranchers out of business? Where exactly did this un-elected entity get that power? And why is this land under federal control and not the state of Nevada? Hell Al Sharpton owes more in taxes than Bundy owes in range fee, where is the 200 man assault team taking him down? If this should actually make it to court, .gov thinks it is going to loose, why else do you think the show of force?

[King Shizzo]

So you think it's OK for the BLM to simple decide to raise the grazing fee's so high as to put ranchers out of business? Where exactly did this un-elected entity get that power? And why is this land under federal control and not the state of Nevada? Hell Al Sharpton owes more in taxes than Bundy owes in range fee, where is the 200 man assault team taking him down? If this should actually make it to court, .gov thinks it is going to loose, why else do you think the show of force?

Bundy should either pay the grazing fees (on land he does not own) or, keep his 900 cattle on his own land.

I hear Scott's feed keeps the grass happy.

[Kazan]

Because the government usually works at a sloths pace.  Why do you think it takes years for the government to notice that some people have evaded taxes?

In this case, 20 years was enough. Now, in your opinion, why do you think this Bundy guy deserves a break?

Oh I see, so if .gov doesn't enforce a "law" and I use the term loosely in this case, is it really a "law"? Or is it only enforced when .gov or one of their family members stand to gain from it?

So be a good little surf and do what .gov tells you.......

[Kazan]

Bundy should either pay the grazing fees (on land he does not own) or, keep his 900 cattle on his own land.

I hear Scott's feed keeps the grass happy.

Why should he pay a fee that was set so high as to intentionally destroy people's livelihoods? You don't see a problem with this? What if .gov decides that to drive on the "public" roads you need to pay 1000 toll ever 10 miles? You think that is acceptable?

[King Shizzo]

Oh I see, so if .gov doesn't enforce a "law" and I use the term loosely in this case, is it really a "law"? Or is it only enforced when .gov or one of their family members stand to gain from it?

So be a good little surf and do what .gov tells you.......

No, because it's hard to keep track of billions of people. It's our job (as law abiding citizens) to follow the laws placed by our government and state.

Lets not mix words here: The U.S. government is absolutely a business. How do you think they get the money to fund anything?

But.... It has been the same basic system since man began to create cities. It is all humanity knows.

[King Shizzo]

Why should he pay a fee that was set so high as to intentionally destroy people's livelihoods? You don't see a problem with this? What if .gov decides that to drive on the "public" roads you need to pay 1000 toll ever 10 miles? You think that is acceptable?

What was this fee? Did you ever stop to think that the government was trying to send a message to this rancher?

Were other ranchers paying the same fees?

[Archer77]

So you think it's OK for the BLM to simple decide to raise the grazing fee's so high as to put ranchers out of business? Where exactly did this un-elected entity get that power? And why is this land under federal control and not the state of Nevada? Hell Al Sharpton owes more in taxes than Bundy owes in range fee, where is the 200 man assault team taking him down? If this should actually make it to court, .gov thinks it is going to loose, why else do you think the show of force?

Sure, there may be aspects of this situation that are unfair.  He doesnt have to use public land.  Hes assuming a risk when he does.

[Kazan]

No, because it's hard to keep track of billions of people. It's our job (as law abiding citizens) to follow the laws placed by our government and state.

Lets not mix words here: The U.S. government is absolutely a business. How do you think they get the money to fund anything?

But.... It has been the same basic system since man began to create cities. It is all humanity knows.

No, it is our duty to follow constitutional laws, not any law the .gov decides to put on the books.

How do they get money to pay for anything? It's collected in taxes, I see it every 2 weeks when they rape my paycheck, or fill the truck up with gas ( although you don't actually see how much tax you pay on a gallon of gas, wonder why that is?)

Show me in the constitution where the BLM is and it's right to level fee's how ever they see fit and I will concede the argument to you.

[Kazan]

What was this fee? Did you ever stop to think that the government was trying to send a message to this rancher?

Were other ranchers paying the same fees?

The other ranchers were put out of business or has to move else where, but that's not important, Bundy is an evil racist 

[Kazan]

Sure, there may be aspects of this situation that are unfair.  He doesnt have to use public land.  Hes assuming a risk when he does.

Again I will ask, where does the BLM get the power to raise fee's as to destroy people's livelihoods? I've never seen a slot on the ballot for the head of the BLM. Is it a tax or a fee? And what is the difference? If a tax I was under the impression that only congress has that power.

[King Shizzo]

No, it is our duty to follow constitutional laws, not any law the .gov decides to put on the books.

How do they get money to pay for anything? It's collected in taxes, I see it every 2 weeks when they rape my paycheck, or fill the truck up with gas ( although you don't actually see how much tax you pay on a gallon of gas, wonder why that is?)

Show me in the constitution where the BLM is and it's right to level fee's how ever they see fit and I will concede the argument to you.

Sooo you say it's our duty to follow archaic laws drawn up in the 1700's, but not to follow modern laws?  Modern laws were drawn up to reflect our ever changing society.

Which makes this situation the perfect example. Bundy's shit would have flown in the 1800's, but this is not the wild west anymore.

The U.S. government owns all land that is not bought by an individual. It is as simple as that.

This Bundy guy thinks he is Wyatt Earp.

[Archer77]

Again I will ask, where does the BLM get the power to raise fee's as to destroy people's livelihoods? I've never seen a slot on the ballot for the head of the BLM. Is it a tax or a fee? And what is the difference? If a tax I was under the impression that only congress has that power.

Very valid points.  However, knowing the fees existed he still decided to use the land. 

[Kazan]

Sooo you say it's our duty to follow archaic laws drawn up in the 1700's, but not to follow modern laws?  Modern laws were drawn up to reflect our ever changing society.

Which makes this situation the perfect example. Bundy's shit would have flown in the 1800's, but this is not the wild west anymore.

The U.S. government owns all land that is not bought by an individual. It is as simple as that.

This Bundy guy thinks he is Wyatt Earp.

Wow, I give up, the public school system has done its job.........

[King Shizzo]

Wow, I give up, the public school system has done its job.........

Sorry I am not a regular here. But do you even live in America?

[Kazan]

Very valid points.  However, knowing the fees existed he still decided to use the land. 

There is also the matter of perspective rights

http://benswann.com/exclusive-does-cliven-bundy-have-something-called-prescriptive-rights-why-the-blm-may-be-afraid-of-going-to-court/?utm_content=buffer70de8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Kazan]

Sorry I am not a regular here. But do you even live in America?

Yes I live in America, the Constitution is the law of the land, there are provisions to amend the constitution, it's just easier for the .gov to make laws and see if they are challenged.

[King Shizzo]

Yes I live in America, the Constitution is the law of the land, there are provisions to amend the constitution, it's just easier for the .gov to make laws and see if they are challenged.

Like it or not, the government keeps the peace my friend.

It pays for the public works, the teachers, the cops, the firefighters, the troops.......

This Bundy guy broke the law.

[Archer77]

There is also the matter of perspective rights

http://benswann.com/exclusive-does-cliven-bundy-have-something-called-prescriptive-rights-why-the-blm-may-be-afraid-of-going-to-court/?utm_content=buffer70de8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Thank you for the link.  I will definitely read.

[Kazan]

Like it or not, the government keeps the peace my friend.

It pays for the public works, the teachers, the cops, the firefighters, the troops.......

This Bundy guy broke the law.

Really? the only thing you listed the the federal government pays for is the troops, the states have to pay for their police, teachers, firefighters............

Have you ever actually read the constitution? It's apparent you really have no understanding of how things work.

What law did he break? You haven't provided and constitutional provision for the BLM, so what law can they create and/or enforce?

[King Shizzo]

Really? the only thing you listed the the federal government pays for is the troops, the states have to pay for their police, teachers, firefighters............

Have you ever actually read the constitution? It's apparent you really have no understanding of how things work.

What law did he break? You haven't provided and constitutional provision for the BLM, so what law can they create and/or enforce?

I consider the government on all levels. Not just the Whitehouse.

What law did he break? HE DOES NOT OWN THE LAND THAT HIS CATTLE HAS BEEN GRAZING ON.

If a person or a pet came on your land, it would be called trespassing.

[Kazan]

I consider the government on all levels. Not just the Whitehouse.

What law did he break? HE DOES NOT OWN THE LAND THAT HIS CATTLE HAS BEEN GRAZING ON.

If a person or a pet came on your land, it would be called trespassing.

Really? read the 10th Amendment.

What I want to know is where in the Constitution is it stated that the federal government can own or have control of any land or have the ability to take land for so called public use?

[King Shizzo]

Really? read the 10th Amendment.

What I want to know is where in the Constitution is it stated that the federal government can own or have control of any land or have the ability to take land for so called public use?

It does not have to. It should be implied.

The United States of America owns all land that is not bought by someone.

Im not talking about small lot with a house on it.

Im talking about vast stretches of land, all across the U.S.

The government absolutely owns it.

[Kazan]

It does not have to. It should be implied.

The United States of America owns all land that is not bought by someone.

Im not talking about small lot with a house on it.

Im talking about vast stretches of land, all across the U.S.

The government absolutely owns it.

Under what constitutional statute? You can say what ever you want, but until you provide constitutional evidence i doesn't mean a damn thing

[King Shizzo]

Under what constitutional statute? You can say what ever you want, but until you provide constitutional evidence i doesn't mean a damn thing

So are we going back to 1492, when anyone can put a stick in the ground and claim the land?

If it is not owned by a person, company, or bank, it belongs to the U.S. government.

What constitutional statute? When we won the war against the British.