As I said all along...Clive Bundy is a piece of shit

[Kazan]

So are we going back to 1492, when anyone can put a stick in the ground and claim the land?

If it is not owned by a person, company, or bank, it belongs to the U.S. government.

What constitutional statute? When we won the war against the British.

Wrong yet again.

Then what exactly is the point of having states as in United STATES of America?

Why does each state elect its own government and representatives to the federal government?

Hell it appears you would just as happy to abolish all states and let the federal government run everything. Hell maybe they can appoint a governor to each "province" to rule with an iron fist. While were at it why not just anoint a king to rule. Oh wait that is why we fought a war against the British in the first place.

If anything the land in question belongs to the state of Nevada.

[King Shizzo]

Wrong yet again.

Then what exactly is the point of having states as in United STATES of America?

Why does each state elect its own government and representatives to the federal government?

Hell it appears you would just as happy to abolish all states and let the federal government run everything. Hell maybe they can appoint a governor to each "province" to rule with an iron fist. While were at it why not just anoint a king to rule. Oh wait that is why we fought a war against the British in the first place.

If anything the land in question belongs to the state of Nevada.

Well then, you admit that the land does not belong to Bundy.

Case closed.

[Kazan]

Well then, you admit that the land does not belong to Bundy.

Case closed.

Case re-opened, the BLM is a federal agency, so where is there authority over the land? If it belongs to the state of Nevada then the claim of owing "fee's" by the BLM is invalid. Bundy owe's nothing and the show of force by the federal government is illegal and Bundy should sue.

[King Shizzo]

Case re-opened, the BLM is a federal agency, so where is there authority over the land? If it belongs to the state of Nevada then the claim of owing "fee's" by the BLM is invalid. Bundy owe's nothing and the show of force by the federal government is illegal and Bundy should sue.

The government has control of the states. When states go rogue..... Well, we all know about the civil war. 

The states ultimately answer to the government.

[Kazan]

The government has control of the states. When states go rogue..... Well, we all know about the civil war. 

The states ultimately answer to the government.

LOL, what the fuck country do you live in?

[King Shizzo]

LOL, what the fuck country do you live in?

So you dont think that the U.S. government has ultimate control?

The states are nothing more than modern day satraps.

[Archer77]

Case re-opened, the BLM is a federal agency, so where is there authority over the land? If it belongs to the state of Nevada then the claim of owing "fee's" by the BLM is invalid. Bundy owe's nothing and the show of force by the federal government is illegal and Bundy should sue.

Did the citizens of the state of Nevada agree that bundy could use public land?  She should have appealed to the people

[240 is Back]

yeah, there's a smaller and smaller window for this guy to be "right" and his actions to be just.

to back him now, you're in the camp of "the whole system is flawed, man, and any person should be able to use any land he doesn't own, at any time."

Sure, it sucks that the "govt" owns some lands, but that's the case in, say, 100% of countries in the world.  Sure it sucks they started charging fees in 1993, but all other ranchers obeyed.   He's had an AMAZING advantage for 20 years, skipping that HUGE operating cost that all other ranchers paid.   

It's really great to see so many conservatives saying this dude is wrong.  They're not just knee-jerk supporting cause the dude is wrapping himself in "obama sucks" and "guvment is mean to me!" cover. 

[Kazan]

So you dont think that the U.S. government has ultimate control?

The states are nothing more than modern day satraps.

They think they do, but if the states ever grow some balls they can tell the .gov to go pound sand and there is no a fucking thing .gov can do about it. Problem is that since the federal income tax was enacted the states are begging at the trough of .gov. From a constitutional stand point .gov is not in power.

What is congress made up of? Representatives from each state - maybe you should look up the meaning of the word representative

[Kazan]

Did the citizens of the state of Nevada agree that bundy could use public land?  She should have appealed to the people

I believe he had an agreement with the county for which he did pay the land use fee's the problem is .gov

[Kazan]

yeah, there's a smaller and smaller window for this guy to be "right" and his actions to be just.

to back him now, you're in the camp of "the whole system is flawed, man, and any person should be able to use any land he doesn't own, at any time."

Sure, it sucks that the "govt" owns some lands, but that's the case in, say, 100% of countries in the world.  Sure it sucks they started charging fees in 1993, but all other ranchers obeyed.   He's had an AMAZING advantage for 20 years, skipping that HUGE operating cost that all other ranchers paid.  

It's really great to see so many conservatives saying this dude is wrong.  They're not just knee-jerk supporting cause the dude is wrapping himself in "obama sucks" and "guvment is mean to me!" cover.  

You have not proven that the federal government can lay claim to this land, so your childish emotion driven bullshit is invalid, not unlike 99.9% of the arguments you make.

You get on here a rail about rule of law, but when .gov chooses not to enforce or out right break said laws its A OK in 240's book.

[Straw Man]

This thread needs some levity

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/ehanpl/the-ballad-of-cliven-bundy

[blacken700]

Article VI of the Constitution makes federal law "the supreme law of the land," ... Despite the efforts of some states, even today, to "nullify" federal laws

[dario73]

Because the government usually works at a sloths pace.  Why do you think it takes years for the government to notice that some people have evaded taxes?

In this case, 20 years was enough. Now, in your opinion, why do you think this Bundy guy deserves a break?

No.

He was told to stop grazing because it was claimed that the tortoise or turtle, what ever they are, were endangared. The BLM started PURCHASING grazing privileges from the cattle owners. THEY WERE PURCHASING THEM BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THEIR ANCESTORS had their cattle grazing there way before BLM came into existence. To deal with those that refused to sell their privileges they punished them by imposing fines. Bundy is the only one who did not cave in.

Now, this all started with feds claiming that the desert tortoise was endangared and their habitat would be treathened by cattle grazing. Guess what? They are no longer endangered. They have made a comeback. So if the tortoise are no longer endangered, WHY IS IT STILL DESIGNATED AS A FEDERAL CONSERVATION LAND? It can't continue to be protected land for NO REASON. Once the species is no longer endangared, it should seize to be conservation land.

Funny how does "laws" don't apply when there is pro-green, environmental agenda. I bet there would be no hesitation to use the land to put up wind turbines.

Sort of like when the same democrats who claim we are a "nation of laws" don't want to enforce the current immigration laws.

[Kazan]

Article VI of the Constitution makes federal law "the supreme law of the land," ... Despite the efforts of some states, even today, to "nullify" federal laws

It makes the constitution the supreme law of the land, per the 10th amendment the states enact laws that are not in violation of the constitution.

I fail to see why this is so difficult for someone of you to comprehend.

[blacken700]

This thread needs some levity

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/ehanpl/the-ballad-of-cliven-bundy

[240 is Back]

You have not proven that the federal government can lay claim to this land, so your childish emotion driven bullshit is invalid, not unlike 99.9% of the arguments you make.

Doesn't the fed govt have a deed to this land?   I mean, they claim it, they own it.  that's how it works.  it's how it works in every nation in the civilized nation, right?  You can't just "find" land that nobody is on and let your animals eat/shit there?

In order for Bundy to be "right", this has to turn into a huge debate into whether or not people should be able to eat/shit on land that they don't own.

[Kazan]

Doesn't the fed govt have a deed to this land?   I mean, they claim it, they own it.  that's how it works.  it's how it works in every nation in the civilized nation, right?  You can't just "find" land that nobody is on and let your animals eat/shit there?

In order for Bundy to be "right", this has to turn into a huge debate into whether or not people should be able to eat/shit on land that they don't own.

How many fucking times do I have to say it, show me in the Constitution of the United States where the federal government has the ability to claim land. If you can't then any land they claim is illegal and unconstitutional end of story. I don't give 2 shits what other countries do, we are talking about the USA.

And what exactly is this precious piece of land used for by the BLM? Nothing, the simple fact that someone actually has a purpose for it and doesn't fall into line with .gov is a domestic terrorist?


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

[240 is Back]

show me in the Constitution of the United States where the federal government has the ability to claim land.

were you the getbigger that used to argue with me over and over about there "technically" not being any proof that hermann cain ever did anything wrong?  I thought that was you, maybe not, but that rings a bell.

Anyway, they claim it, so that's how it is.  Americans or companies cannot just set up shop anywhere they want.  That's how it is.  it USED to be lands were unmanaged and people got away with it.  That's not how it is anymore, since 1993.

Anyway, this guy didn't follow the law - He didn't fight it either, right?  He just IGNORED it, instead of taking them to court and arguing it.   IN this country, you can't just ignore laws and win.  Fight it in court, who knows, you might win.

But IGNORING them, (because you don't even recognize the govt exists), and just continuing to use their resources... well, that's not how it works.  Maybe you can show "but but but but the exact wording isn't in there", well, the constitution doesn't include a lot of things, but there are a lot of rules and laws and expectations that people need to follow.


Courts decided against him, so any argument from getbig to the contrary is pretty moot anyway.  He enjoyed  1.1 million advantage over his competitors for 20 years.  He made a million bucks they didn't, if you think about it.  Because they followed law, and he didn't.

[Kazan]

Nonsensical bullshit

Maybe you didn't notice the 10th amendment? That makes what .gov is doing completely unconstitutional and illegal.

And no I didn't argue about Herman Cain that I can remember

[240 is Back]

Maybe you didn't notice the 10th amendment? That makes what .gov is doing completely unconstitutional and illegal.

And no I didn't argue about Herman Cain that I can remember

gotcha.  sorry, there was one getbigger I kept arguing with about Cain, wasn't you, my bad.

[Straw Man]

How many fucking times do I have to say it, show me in the Constitution of the United States where the federal government has the ability to claim land. If you can't then any land they claim is illegal and unconstitutional end of story. I don't give 2 shits what other countries do, we are talking about the USA.

And what exactly is this precious piece of land used for by the BLM? Nothing, the simple fact that someone actually has a purpose for it and doesn't fall into line with .gov is a domestic terrorist?


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

how about the fifth amendment

[Straw Man]

We can also look at the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

[24KT]

100% true my dear. But that goes for all races, colors, and creeds.

Is the "But..." qualifier really necessary?
Wasn't my initial statement that you highlighted in red, inclusive enough? 

[24KT]

No, because it's hard to keep track of billions of people. It's our job (as law abiding citizens) to follow the laws placed by our government and state.

Lets not mix words here: The U.S. government is absolutely a business. How do you think they get the money to fund anything?

But.... It has been the same basic system since man began to create cities. It is all humanity knows.

They borrow it at interest from a private entitity that prints it into existence, out of thin air.
They then tax the poop out of you, me, and our progeny for generations to come, in order to repay the unrepayable.