Author Topic: maximum natural potential - myth or fact? (Read 11611 times)

tom joad · « **on:** January 24, 2006, 09:06:26 AM »

I've read a number of posts where guys say that they didn't start to juice until they had trained naturally for about 5 years and they had reached their "natural maximum potential." Do you believe that there is such a natural limit? I've been training hard and consistently (with good nutrition) for about 10 years now and i'm still making improvements . . . although my improvements, obviously, are not as dramatic as when I first started training. So wouldn't a natural physique only start to decline when advanced age (whatever that age might be) starts to kick in?

Ursus · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2006, 09:17:34 AM »

Quote from: tom joad on January 24, 2006, 09:06:26 AM

I've read a number of posts where guys claim that they didn't start to juice until they had trained naturally for about 5 years and they had reached their "natural maximum potential." Do you believe that there is such a natural limit? I've been training hard and consistently (with good nutrition) for about 10 years now and i'm still making improvements . . . although my improvements, obviously, are not as dramatic as when I first started training. So wouldn't a natural physique only start to decline when advanced age (whatever that age might be) starts to kick in?

i disagree with the 5 year natural potential.

http://www.lamuscle.com/docs/world/aselector.php?athlete=McIlory

i believe after 5 yars maybe you reach anywhere between 60-80% of what you can ever achieve. for example starting out at 180 after 5 years hard dedicated training you may be 220 naturally. however in order to take it that little bit furthur as you say juice will help. however if you have great genetics you will keep improving.

my friend for example for years was a boxer in the 148lb class. he still is and since he devised hgimself a new routine his deadlift is literally flying up, about a 510lb max now.naturally at 25 yrs old. having only been training it since may since a serious injury

he WILL be the first person naturally to dead 4x b/w at the wdfpf world champs in cork, ireland in november. he is also an la muscle sponsered athlete and runs a personal training business.

he has been weight traing since he was 16 or 17.

the dead lift is even more impressive when 2 years ago her herniated L4 and L5 discs in his back.

just needs another 40kg or so in next 10 months

Bluto · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2006, 09:51:18 AM »

i think there's a limit but most people are probably not even close to reach it when they THINK they've reached it... impatience comes crawling.
it's also interesting with this 'muscle maturity' thing that a lot of bodybuilders look their best in their 30's...

Prime · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2006, 10:15:22 AM »

Id say within 5 years of true hardcore training and diet (not 5 years of doing a half arsed impersonation) a person can reach 70-90% of their overall potential size. After that it's a long hard gradual slog, but strength, conditioning and muscle development will still be improving even if there is very little improvement in size.

Why do i think this? Well Lok at the guys who compete, usually the weight class they competed in after 5 years of training is the one they are still in even if they have been competing for 10 years.

GET_BIGGER · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2006, 10:25:08 AM »

Yeah, I don't know about limitations. The body is so remarkable at adapting to change so well that it would be hard for me to think that there are limitations to how big you can get and long as your doing the basics correctly. I can understand it slowing down do to age and decreased test levels, but as far as gains in the 16-40, I think that will be still possible.

Acerimmer1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2006, 12:17:02 PM »

Quote from: tom joad on January 24, 2006, 09:06:26 AM

I've read a number of posts where guys say that they didn't start to juice until they had trained naturally for about 5 years and they had reached their "natural maximum potential." Do you believe that there is such a natural limit? I've been training hard and consistently (with good nutrition) for about 10 years now and i'm still making improvements . . . although my improvements, obviously, are not as dramatic as when I first started training. So wouldn't a natural physique only start to decline when advanced age (whatever that age might be) starts to kick in?

Nobody has yet reached the limit of what is naturally possible. Many people believe they have reached their natural limit without the use of drugs these people are wrong. I don't know if anybody has ever even reached the upper limit of what is practically achievable in their specific circumstances.

Ever heard of Rob Feesey? A natural bodybuilder over 50 who won his class in the efbb Britain afew years back. Yep that was funny. Very funny, those other guys may never live it down. Imagine that you a young guy in the prime of life loaded on the sauce and out of nowhere this natural guy old enough to be you Dad whoops your arse all over the stage. Too funny!

Prime · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2006, 04:22:49 PM »

Quote from: Acerimmer1 on January 24, 2006, 12:17:02 PM

Nobody has yet reached the limit of what is naturally possible. Many people believe they have reached their natural limit without the use of drugs these people are wrong. I don't know if anybody has ever even reached the upper limit of what is practically achievable in their specific circumstances.

Ever heard of Rob Feesey? A natural bodybuilder over 50 who won his class in the efbb Britain afew years back. Yep that was funny. Very funny, those other guys may never live it down. Imagine that you a young guy in the prime of life loaded on the sauce and out of nowhere this natural guy old enough to be you Dad whoops your arse all over the stage. Too funny!

Yeah Rob still competes, diddnt realise he was that old. Theres also lee williams who is natural but has been the EFBB lightweight british champ

Rob Feesey

Thing is just think how much further both these guys could fesibly get with some steroids, the mind boggles!

brianX · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2006, 12:13:48 AM »

I am inclined to believe that it is a myth.

Acerimmer1 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:42:13 PM »

Quote from: Prime on January 24, 2006, 04:22:49 PM

Yeah Rob still competes, diddnt realise he was that old. Theres also lee williams who is natural but has been the EFBB lightweight british champ

Rob Feesey

Thing is just think how much further both these guys could fesibly get with some steroids, the mind boggles!

Don't think that pic does Lee Justice in terms of size! Nor Feeseys lats which have a shape from the side I never saw anywhere else even on a pro.

Prime · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2006, 04:19:03 PM »

Quote from: Acerimmer1 on January 25, 2006, 03:42:13 PM

Don't think that pic does Lee Justice in terms of size! Nor Feeseys lats which have a shape from the side I never saw anywhere else even on a pro.

Well i have not met either in person so i couldnt really give an opinion. Id say both look huge though considering how much they weigh.

jonno gb · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2006, 02:56:58 PM »

I think Rob might be a little offended-he's not in his 50's yet-about 45,I think.He's not got the best shape but has plenty of dense muscle and unreal condition.He placed secongd to Earl Snyder from the USA in the recent UIBBN World Championships in France.Lee Williams beat him into 3rd when he won the EFBB lightweights and also has an amazing physique.Many of the top naturals seem to be quite short-anyone know why?

XS · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2006, 05:14:58 PM »

The REAL question should be: What is the maximum HUMAN potential? The more we learn about this amazing adapting machine, the more we realize we don't know.. Noway are we even close. The only thing stopping you is you.. The size and depth of conviction to your dream, your passion, your absolute gut wrenching desire to succeed at all costs... THAT will decide for you, YOUR maximum HUMAN potential.

XS

jonno gb · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2006, 04:09:49 AM »

Quote from: XS on February 16, 2006, 05:14:58 PM

The REAL question should be: What is the maximum HUMAN potential? The more we learn about this amazing adapting machine, the more we realize we don't know.. Noway are we even close. The only thing stopping you is you.. The size and depth of conviction to your dream, your passion, your absolute gut wrenching desire to succeed at all costs... THAT will decide for you, YOUR maximum HUMAN potential.
XS

Great post

Acerimmer1 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:12:22 AM »

Quote from: XS on February 16, 2006, 05:14:58 PM

The REAL question should be: What is the maximum HUMAN potential? The more we learn about this amazing adapting machine, the more we realize we don't know.. Noway are we even close. The only thing stopping you is you.. The size and depth of conviction to your dream, your passion, your absolute gut wrenching desire to succeed at all costs... THAT will decide for you, YOUR maximum HUMAN potential.
XS

Nicely put!

So what you're saying is I'll decide my maximum natural potential, in that case I decide to be HUGE.

Bast175 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2006, 03:08:25 PM »

The more gains you make the longer it takes to make gains. You only have so much testosterone in your body.

XS · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2006, 07:15:39 PM »

Quote from: Acerimmer1 on February 17, 2006, 08:12:22 AM

Nicely put!
So what you're saying is I'll decide my maximum natural potential, in that case I decide to be HUGE.

Yes, that is correct. Visualize - Internalize - Materialize

XS

brianX · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2006, 12:17:51 AM »

Quote from: Bast175 on February 19, 2006, 03:08:25 PM

The more gains you make the longer it takes to make gains. You only have so much testosterone in your body.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Acerimmer1 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:49:20 AM »

Quote from: Bast175 on February 19, 2006, 03:08:25 PM

The more gains you make the longer it takes to make gains. You only have so much testosterone in your body.

Testosterone isn't really so important a factor. Which is obvious because of the enormous dosages required to affect significant change. This is why the return you have to put up with alot of side affects for not very much muscle. Testosterone only affects muscle indirectly.).

myseone · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:21:46 PM »

Is there an uper limit to muscle growth? probably not anywhere near what any of us have been able to achieve in my opinion. Consider that none of us fully understand our bodies, we live in a constantly shifting environment, we have have other interests and obligations that we give attention to, etc. Then the only logical is that no one exists who has actually reached their own.

Not to mention that evoultion in supplement quality, training methods, foods, environment, and technology will push whats possible to achieve whether drug free or not upwards over time.

We are nowhere near what we will become

GET_BIGGER · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2006, 12:44:59 PM »

Quote from: Bast175 on February 19, 2006, 03:08:25 PM

The more gains you make the longer it takes to make gains. You only have so much testosterone in your body.

WTF??

Acerimmer1 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2006, 01:12:44 PM »

Quote from: myseone on March 12, 2006, 09:21:46 PM

Is there an uper limit to muscle growth? probably not anywhere near what any of us have been able to achieve in my opinion. Consider that none of us fully understand our bodies, we live in a constantly shifting environment, we have have other interests and obligations that we give attention to, etc. Then the only logical is that no one exists who has actually reached their own.

Not to mention that evoultion in supplement quality, training methods, foods, environment, and technology will push whats possible to achieve whether drug free or not upwards over time.

We are nowhere near what we will become

Is the right answer.