Author Topic: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims  (Read 7270 times)

avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2014, 09:15:18 AM »
You're choosing to believe one side.  You dismissed the flag owners claim as bullshit.  What prompted the apartment complex to act?   What does the portion of the statement "provide for the safety of all residents" even mean and how is it relevent to the removal of the flag.  How is the flag a threat to the safety of residents?  Sounds like someone felt the flag threatened their safety and who might that be? The complex management specifically mentions safety of all the residents as a reason for the flags removal.  Is that a valid argument?

I am choosing one side as more likely to provide accurate information here: the apartment complex. This is for a simple reason: they didn't have to provide a reason - merely say "this installation is in violation of your lease, please remove it." Why would they add anything more than that?

Is it possible they're lying? Sure. I don't foreclose on that possibility. But until evidence to that effect is shown, my position remains that the apartment complex had no reason to lie and a lot more to lose.

You interpret the "safety" bit of their statement as a suggestion that someone must have complained and that the resident's claims must be true. If you live in an apartment, check your lease. You will find that apartments typically limits residents' ability to put things in balconies, porches and windows for exactly the reasons their cited: aesthetics and safety.

In all likelihood, they cited the rule as states in the lease agreement.

Tapeworm

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2014, 09:39:06 AM »
I am choosing one side as more likely to provide accurate information here: the apartment complex. This is for a simple reason: they didn't have to provide a reason - merely say "this installation is in violation of your lease, please remove it." Why would they add anything more than that?

Is it possible they're lying? Sure. I don't foreclose on that possibility. But until evidence to that effect is shown, my position remains that the apartment complex had no reason to lie and a lot more to lose.

You interpret the "safety" bit of their statement as a suggestion that someone must have complained and that the resident's claims must be true. If you live in an apartment, check your lease. You will find that apartments typically limits residents' ability to put things in balconies, porches and windows for exactly the reasons their cited: aesthetics and safety.

In all likelihood, they cited the rule as states in the lease agreement.


A flag is neither a safety concern nor an eyesore.  Since real property isn't soverign and continues to be subject to US law, a private contract cannot impinge upon an individual's rights under law. 

An owner can do as he pleases (provided he doesn't harm others) on his own property.  If he decides to lease a portion of the property to others, in so doing he accepts that other parties arrive with rights which he cannot curtail with private contract.

OTHstrong

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2014, 10:39:41 AM »
You're choosing to believe one side.  You dismissed the flag owners claim as bullshit.  What prompted the apartment complex to act?   What does the portion of the statement "provide for the safety of all residents" even mean and how is it relevent to the removal of the flag.  How is the flag a threat to the safety of residents?  Sounds like someone felt the flag threatened their safety and who might that be? The complex management specifically mentions safety of all the residents as a reason for the flags removal.  Is that a valid argument?
no point of discussing this with him since he does not believe the story anyway, you are right on all counts though.

OTHstrong

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2014, 10:40:22 AM »
A flag is neither a safety concern nor an eyesore.  Since real property isn't soverign and continues to be subject to US law, a private contract cannot impinge upon an individual's rights under law. 

An owner can do as he pleases (provided he doesn't harm others) on his own property.  If he decides to lease a portion of the property to others, in so doing he accepts that other parties arrive with rights which he cannot curtail with private contract.
exactly^^^

2Thick

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2014, 02:05:50 PM »
I would just buy an American Flag T-Shirt and stand on the balcony all day long.  What would they do then?

 They'd probably make you take the shirt off in the complex because it offends muslims? ;D
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2Thick

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2014, 02:10:24 PM »
I agree that he should have read the lease, and that the complex has the right to make it's own rules within the law, and that he can choose to live elsewhere, etc.

But if the manager did in fact give him "it's a threat toward muslims" as the reason, she was very stupid to do so.

Also, who thinks that the manager and the complex wouldn't have said shit if he had been flying a similar sized flag of another nation in the same place? Especially if it was the flag of a muslim-run nation, black African nation, Mexico, etc?
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avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2014, 02:37:01 PM »
A flag is neither a safety concern nor an eyesore.

Perhaps not to you and me, but to someone else, it very well might be. But even if it's none of those things, a landlord can still decide that he does not want flags hung from balcony railings.


Since real property isn't soverign and continues to be subject to US law, a private contract cannot impinge upon an individual's rights under law.

Ooh, another guy that fancies himself a lawyer. First of all, there is no "right" to hang the flag from your balcony railing. Second of all, all sorts of restrictions to what a tenant can do can and are imposed all the time. Leases, for example, often mention that a tenant cannot have pets in the apartment.


An owner can do as he pleases (provided he doesn't harm others) on his own property. If he decides to lease a portion of the property to others, in so doing he accepts that other parties arrive with rights which he cannot curtail with private contract.

People can and often do waive many of their rights. For example, when you lease an apartment, the landlord typically loses the right to enter the premises at any time and without the permission of the owner. This is sensible because the landlord surrenders possession of the premises to the tenant for the term of the lease However, a lease will typically grant the landlord right of entry anyways.

You can argue that the tenant has a First Amendment right to fly the flag - I would agree with you. However, if his lease explicitly regulates what can and cannot be hung/displayed from balconies (and most leases do), then the tenant doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Red Hook

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2014, 02:41:02 PM »
The pretext for the removal of the flag is that it is a threat to muslims, not that it violates the rule of the apartment complex.  Do you agree that the flag is a threat to muslims?



how can raising the American flag anywhere on American soil pose a threat?
I

OTHstrong

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2014, 03:15:03 PM »
I agree that he should have read the lease, and that the complex has the right to make it's own rules within the law, and that he can choose to live elsewhere, etc.

But if the manager did in fact give him "it's a threat toward muslims" as the reason, she was very stupid to do so.

Also, who thinks that the manager and the complex wouldn't have said shit if he had been flying a similar sized flag of another nation in the same place? Especially if it was the flag of a muslim-run nation, black African nation, Mexico, etc?
can you please engrave this into avxo's head, he doesn't seem to get it.

Archer77

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2014, 04:42:42 PM »


how can raising the American flag anywhere on American soil pose a threat?

I don't know and that's why I was asking. 
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Parker

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2014, 04:50:42 PM »
I don't know and that's why I was asking. 
And aren't these people "American"? Say if it was an American who has decided to become Muslim or a person who practices Islam moved to this country and got their citizenship, wouldn't they now be an "American"? So, putting up an American Flag in America can now be considered a "threat" to Americans?
What next, driving an American car (particularly an old school muscle car) in America could now be considered a "threat" to Americans (who have decided to drive German or Japanese cars or are from those respective countries)?

Archer77

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2014, 04:59:40 PM »
And aren't these people "American"? Say if it was an American who has decided to become Muslim or a person who practices Islam moved to this country and got their citizenship, wouldn't they now be an "American"? So, putting up an American Flag in America can now be considered a "threat" to Americans?
What next, driving an American car (particularly an old school muscle car) in America could now be considered a "threat" to Americans (who have decided to drive German or Japanese cars or are from those respective countries)?

I agree.  Now if it were a confederate or nazi flag I could see an issue.  
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avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2014, 05:26:38 PM »
can you please engrave this into avxo's head, he doesn't seem to get it.

Are you senile or just unable to read? I already stated that if the manager did, indeed, say that, she was stupid. It's in my second post in this very topic:

Think about this logically. Not only would it be extremely stupid for any employee of the community in question to explicitly state that the reason was what the resident claims, if that was, indeed, the reason. But it would extremely unlikely that would provide such a reason anyways, since the community guidelines (like the guidelines of most communities) strictly control such displays.

Mr Anabolic

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2014, 05:57:54 PM »
Political correctness is totally out of hand.  It only gets worse and worse.

The US is fucking doomed.

Archer77

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2014, 06:02:04 PM »
Are you senile or just unable to read? I already stated that if the manager did, indeed, say that, she was stupid. It's in my second post in this very topic:


How does hanging an American flag threaten the safety of residents?
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avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2014, 06:06:34 PM »
How does hanging an American flag threaten the safety of residents?

I never claimed that it did, so asking me that question is – let's be generous here – misguided.

OTHstrong

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2014, 07:24:53 PM »
Are you senile or just unable to read? I already stated that if the manager did, indeed, say that, she was stupid. It's in my second post in this very topic:

Then what are you arguing about ding dong?

avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2014, 09:02:24 PM »
Then what are you arguing about ding dong?

Feel free to actually read my posts and find out.

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2014, 09:43:06 PM »
I think AVXOs angle, is that the person that owns the property gets to set the rules, regardless of how her tenant feels, if he broke the rules,  he broke the rules.

I know my apartment wont let us hang ANYTHING from our railings, period. They dont have to give a reason why they madd us take it down, its in the lease, nothing on the railings. Doesnt matter if I hung an american flag and claimed discrimination, because its flat out in the rules, nothing on the railings.

Which I cam understand. But if there wasnt something in the lease rules, and they made it up on the fly because of fear of butthurt muslims, then thats something else.

OTHstrong

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2014, 11:54:28 PM »
I think AVXOs angle, is that the person that owns the property gets to set the rules, regardless of how her tenant feels, if he broke the rules,  he broke the rules.

I know my apartment wont let us hang ANYTHING from our railings, period. They dont have to give a reason why they madd us take it down, its in the lease, nothing on the railings. Doesnt matter if I hung an american flag and claimed discrimination, because its flat out in the rules, nothing on the railings.

Which I cam understand. But if there wasnt something in the lease rules, and they made it up on the fly because of fear of butthurt muslims, then thats something else.
Ya but nobody is arguing that point, that is common sense.

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2014, 01:26:30 AM »
avxo is just a defender of all things "big brother".

GraniteCityDon

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2014, 02:30:41 AM »
i am absolutely fucking sick to death of tip toeing through life to avoid offending Muslims. Plain and simple - FUCK THEM. They swarm to my country, overtake entire communities and spread their abusive filth without reprimand because authorities are frightened to offend them incase it causes uproar. If we stand up for ourselves then i guess its easier to simply punish us and appease the Muslim community.

Alot of people i know are apprehensive to travel on trains because they are overcrowded with the jihad scum, hell i get nervous from time to time waiting for one of them to come at me with a blade. Unfortunately the floodgates are open, our coalition government is the weakest it has been for decades and we are now powerless to stop the spread. Everybody can see where this has been going for a long time and yet we are helpless in stopping it. If you dont like our way of life then piss off back to the rat infested shithole you came from.

avxo

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2014, 02:32:50 AM »
avxo is just a defender of all things "big brother".

Yeah... I sure am. I'm Big Brother's #1 defender.  ::)

We're overrun by fucking trolls lately.

Kim Jong Bob

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2014, 03:34:33 AM »
Lol wvy are people ganging up on avxo he just says how it is in many places and said that IF  the landlord said that then he is stupid. Have she admitted to do that?
I know many places where you cant even hang up the north korean flag and thats is sickening

Darren Avey

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Re: Texas man told to remove American flag over 'threat' toward Muslims
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2014, 07:23:39 AM »
If Muslims in theUSA are offended by the stars and stripes then they should fuck off to whatever Middle Eastern shithole they or their family originate from