How much should we really train arms if separately worked out?

[SF1900]

If you have to ask for advices on Getbig you have no clue about bodybuilding. If you have paid your dues you don't ask the silly questions.

Hypertrophy is a physical process that can be controlled. Learning how to do that is what bodybuilding is all about. Most have no idea how

to start a muscle growing and keep it growing. It surprises me that so many are confused in 2014. Then again, I am not surprised because

most guys in gyms believe all manner of rubbish. Free weights are better than machines is one false belief.

What about this machine?

[Hypertrophy]

If you have to ask for advices on Getbig you have no clue about bodybuilding. If you have paid your dues you don't ask the silly questions.

Hypertrophy is a physical process that can be controlled. Learning how to do that is what bodybuilding is all about. Most have no idea how

to start a muscle growing and keep it growing. It surprises me that so many are confused in 2014. Then again, I am not surprised because

most guys in gyms believe all manner of rubbish. Free weights are better than machines is one false belief.

I get my info here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847704  but if that's not enough, I contact Craig Titus to fill in the rest.

[Vince B]

The journal cited is not very useful for hypertrophy research. Is there a link to the full article?

[TheShape.]

I've found the best rep range is around 10. The best way to train arms is with the heaviest weight possible while using excellent form.
Here's my workout:

Tricep Extension: 5X10

Preacher Curl: 5X10

Close Grip Bench Press: 5X10

Reverse Curls: Up and down rack for as many reps possible

Preacher curl: Light weight for 100 reps

Absolutely destroys my arms very week. They also get hit hard indirectly on other days (Dips, bench press, etc.)

[BIG ACH]

I train them no different than I train any other muscle

[Mawse]

What about this machine?

That MS paint "photoshopped" turkey gobbler gets me every time.

[Vince B]

I found the full text article. More reading here:


http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/articles/mechanisms_of_muscle_hypertrophy.pdf

https://www.google.com/#q=hypertrophy+journal

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_hypertrophy_specialist

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/fitness_articles_by_brad_schoenfeld.php

[Ropo]

What about this machine?

There can't be anything in this world better than that machine. That has so many bells and whistles it has to be unbeatable, what comes to engineering overkill.

[Shockwave]

Yes, because the the most successfully engineered pieces are always the most complicated.

[CalvinH]

170lbs of breaststroking butterflying fury.

Hope you don't mind if I steal this line in the future

[Rami]

If you have to ask for advices on Getbig you have no clue about bodybuilding. If you have paid your dues you don't ask the silly questions.

Hypertrophy is a physical process that can be controlled. Learning how to do that is what bodybuilding is all about. Most have no idea how

to start a muscle growing and keep it growing. It surprises me that so many are confused in 2014. Then again, I am not surprised because

most guys in gyms believe all manner of rubbish. Free weights are better than machines is one false belief.

I read a lot about different training methodologies, bodybuilding diets, high protein and supplements etc. At one point I thought I knew all that was needed. But the more I tried different ways the more I realized no one really have this stuff figured out. Bodybuilders preach one way or the other, and that what they are doing is the ultimate way of training and eating, meanwhile they are on steroids and who knows what other drugs and probably feel like shit most of the time.

When I applied my own thinking after reading about diets, training from a non bodybuilding point of view, dropped all powders and supplements, I saw better results than ever and felt better than ever.

Machines are definitely not necessary if you have dumbbells and pullup. I didn't use machines for years. Have you ever considered that maybe you have done it wrong this whole time? Are you willing to question everything? To start from scratch now and then, not get stuck in routine that could be wasting a lot of your effort.

[Rami]

Another guru who knows all about building muscles but somehow fails to build any of them himself  

I found the full text article. More reading here:


http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/articles/mechanisms_of_muscle_hypertrophy.pdf

https://www.google.com/#q=hypertrophy+journal

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_hypertrophy_specialist

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/fitness_articles_by_brad_schoenfeld.php

[funk51]

The falcon future mma champion.

isn't that marty champion?

[Mr Nobody]

isn't that marty champion?

I think so.

[Rami]

I think so.

Yes that's him just hitting his heydays, some bad ass power punching right there. Nobody took the challenge either.

[Costanza]

Yes that's him just hitting his heydays, some bad ass power punching right there. Nobody took the challenge either.

I don't blame them, neither would I.

[Vince B]

I read a lot about different training methodologies, bodybuilding diets, high protein and supplements etc. At one point I thought I knew all that was needed. But the more I tried different ways the more I realized no one really have this stuff figured out. Bodybuilders preach one way or the other, and that what they are doing is the ultimate way of training and eating, meanwhile they are on steroids and who knows what other drugs and probably feel like shit most of the time.

When I applied my own thinking after reading about diets, training from a non bodybuilding point of view, dropped all powders and supplements, I saw better results than ever and felt better than ever.

Machines are definitely not necessary if you have dumbbells and pullup. I didn't use machines for years. Have you ever considered that maybe you have done it wrong this whole time? Are you willing to question everything? To start from scratch now and then, not get stuck in routine that could be wasting a lot of your effort.

After 56 years bodybuilding there is no hope for me re changing much. However, being a philosopher of science I will abandon or modify my theory of hypertrophy if it is falsified. So far no one has done that.

It isn't a question of free weights vs machines. Do the muscles know the difference? I doubt it. Apply enough mechanical tension to a target muscle in a workout and the muscle is stimulated to grow. Eat a balanced diet with sufficient nutrients and you should grow.

Show me someone who built big calves or backs with free weights alone. That is the trouble with bodybuilding and muscleheads in the gym...too many believe all manner of rubbish.

I was wrong for about 40 years. Then I figured out how to trigger rapid hypertrophy from each and every workout. I also understand why most guys who train hard are not growing much or at all. That is part of the theory of hypertrophy.

[Vince B]

Yes, because the the most successfully engineered pieces are always the most complicated.

Have you had any patents in your name? Have you designed an original piece of gym equipment?

Designers always aim for simplicity. However, when a machine like my biceps supinator has resistance in two degrees of freedom

things get complicated. The machine has many adjustments and 21 pulleys. It is complicated because of what it is capable of doing.

No one else has ever made such a machine. Sure, the lads here poke fun at me but that was a difficult machine to design and build.

I did everything by myself. I don't know of any other champion bodybuilder who has designed and built a professional piece of gym

equipment. The apparatus designed by Larry Scott are good but they are not pin loaded machines. Frank Zane didn't make any

significant contribution to gym equipment design. I was the first builder to use linear bearings in a Smith Machine (1982). Now all Smith

Machines use linear bearings. 

[Henda]

We all laugh at vinces piece of shit bicep machine but to give the bloke his dues he must have decent fabrication skills ( I assume he builds them himself )

[Thin Lizzy]

We all laugh at vinces piece of shit bicep machine but to give the bloke his dues he must have decent fabrication skills ( I assume he builds them himself )

A Ferrari engine has fewer belts than Vince's bicep machine.

[Shockwave]

Have you had any patents in your name? Have you designed an original piece of gym equipment?

Designers always aim for simplicity. However, when a machine like my biceps supinator has resistance in two degrees of freedom

things get complicated. The machine has many adjustments and 21 pulleys. It is complicated because of what it is capable of doing.

No one else has ever made such a machine. Sure, the lads here poke fun at me but that was a difficult machine to design and build.

I did everything by myself. I don't know of any other champion bodybuilder who has designed and built a professional piece of gym

equipment. The apparatus designed by Larry Scott are good but they are not pin loaded machines. Frank Zane didn't make any

significant contribution to gym equipment design. I was the first builder to use linear bearings in a Smith Machine (1982). Now all Smith

Machines use linear bearings. 

I work in machine tool design and manufacturing. I deal with fairly complicated designs on a daily basis. The one thing ill tell you that every good engineer knows, its not how slick, or cool, or how much you can add that makes a great design... its when you design a complex system and simplify it to the point where you cannot take anything OFF while still performing its purpose that constitutes greatness.

Fankly I dont care if you have patents...  patents dont mean shit. Is your machine industry standard? Does it have even a niche/cult following? Or do you own a patent on a machine that you have in your gym and a couple friends that you sold them too? Designs dont mean shit if no one wants the goddamn things.

Look, its great that you tried to design something yourself, but dont lie to yourself.  You made something your proud of, but not something that anybody cares for. Its clearly overengineered and complicated looking, and thay kind of stupid shit matters to people. If it looks overly complicated, theyre going to assume it is and be off-put right from the get go. There is a lot of ways you could hide and simplify that system but you didnt, im assuming because you wanted it to look flashy and complicated.

[Henda]

Is it true that vince invented the linear bearing smith machine?
Pretty big claim id say

[Core]

I hit them whenever they aren't sore. Seems to be doing the trick so far but I know mine will never be a strong point unless I piana on them..

[Vince B]

I work in machine tool design and manufacturing. I deal with fairly complicated designs on a daily basis. The one thing ill tell you that every good engineer knows, its not how slick, or cool, or how much you can add that makes a great design... its when you design a complex system and simplify it to the point where you cannot take anything OFF while still performing its purpose that constitutes greatness.

Fankly I dont care if you have patents...  patents dont mean shit. Is your machine industry standard? Does it have even a niche/cult following? Or do you own a patent on a machine that you have in your gym and a couple friends that you sold them too? Designs dont mean shit if no one wants the goddamn things.

Look, its great that you tried to design something yourself, but dont lie to yourself.  You made something your proud of, but not something that anybody cares for. Its clearly overengineered and complicated looking, and thay kind of stupid shit matters to people. If it looks overly complicated, theyre going to assume it is and be off-put right from the get go. There is a lot of ways you could hide and simplify that system but you didnt, im assuming because you wanted it to look flashy and complicated.

Let us see just one of your original designs of a piece of gym equipment. How can you tell if something is over engineered if you have not seen it working or have used it? Engineers and designers try to solve mechanical problems. Often there are several solutions to problems and the trick is to find the best solution that works. This is true of gym equipment. When you have a problem that no one has solved before it is a difficult process. I well remember having a chat with the head of the Mechanical Engineering faculty at Sydney University. He couldn't solve the mechanical problem of a machine that provides resistance for curling and simultaneously for twisting or supination. I was proud of my solution. I have seen another solution but mine is the most compact. I wasn't interested in making the machine flashy looking and complicated. I did use lots of stainless steel parts because I wanted the device to last a long, long time. There is only one such machine built that I know of.

[no one]

Let us see just one of your original designs of a piece of gym equipment. How can you tell if something is over engineered if you have not seen it working or have used it? Engineers and designers try to solve mechanical problems. Often there are several solutions to problems and the trick is to find the best solution that works. This is true of gym equipment. When you have a problem that no one has solved before it is a difficult process. I well remember having a chat with the head of the Mechanical Engineering faculty at Sydney University. He couldn't solve the mechanical problem of a machine that provides resistance for curling and simultaneously for twisting or supination. I was proud of my solution. I have seen another solution but mine is the most compact. I wasn't interested in making the machine flashy looking and complicated. I did use lots of stainless steel parts because I wanted the device to last a long, long time. There is only one such machine built that I know of.

the whole of your problem is that you think you are far more intelligent than you really are.

hope this helps.