Parents Sue BMW After Child Dies In Locked Car

[sync pulse]

I am a lawyer by profession it is hard to see where culpability rests with BMW. It is dickheads taking cases like this that lead to safety notices spoiling every surface you can see.
In this instance the son was responsible (or irresponsible), BMW notified the system in manual (should they have a sign about every feature plastered everywhere around car?). In what way was BMW negligent or irresponsible such that it caused harm?

It's also a 1997 BMW...but, why would there be a need to over-ride the lock from the inside? Unless someone kidnapped you and locked the doors and took the key with them.

Excuse me, but you are both cognitively viscous.  That is a serious design flaw in that car. An error on the same level  of the exit doors of the Cocoanut Grove opening inwards.  On the same level of the Citi Building in New York City.

I once moved into a house where a walk in closet had no doorknob on the inside.  I immediately went to a hardware store and replaced the door hardware.

[phreak]

It's also a 1997 BMW...but, why would there be a need to over-ride the lock from the inside? Unless someone kidnapped you and locked the doors and took the key with them.

Every car in history could be opened from the inside. The better question would be why BMW decided to change it. It's a reasonable expectation that it was possible to open the car from the inside. So I don't see this case as having no chance in court.

[sync pulse]

So now when a kid skips class, it's the fault of the school if the kid gets hurt while skipping class?  

Well, yes.
This was true even when I was in elementary school.  
From when the child leaves home to when he returns home and crosses the threshold, he is the responsibility of the school.

[Mitch]

WYHI? (alive oc, no necro)

[Bertha Butt]

BMW notified the system in manual

People - especially men! - always read the manual thoroughly...  

[Tapeworm]

People - especially men! - always read the manual thoroughly...  

Instructions are for amateurs and girls. 

[OTHstrong]

OMG this should be such an easy case, BMW are retards big time, what kind of fucken car can not be open from the inside when locked? what fucken enormous flaw, stupid stupid.. Ya we all know that didn't lead to a death of course but the courts won't see it that way. Good, teaches these idiots a lesson, who the fuck designed this horse shit?

[Skorp1o]

OMG this should be such an easy case, BMW are retards big time, what kind of fucken car can not be open from the inside when locked? what fucken enormous flaw, stupid stupid.. Ya we all know that didn't lead to a death of course but the courts won't see it that way. Good, teaches these idiots a lesson, who the fuck designed this horse shit?

Only relevant if she DID try to get out and couldn't.

staying in a car without leaving a window slightly open is retarded....you would go to jail if you did that to your dog. It was a bunch of stupid Mexicans end of story

[Bertha Butt]

Excuse me, but you are both cognitively viscous.  That is a serious design flaw in that car. An error on the same level  of the exit doors of the Cocoanut Grove opening inwards.  On the same level of the Citi Building in New York City.

I once moved into a house where a walk in closet had no doorknob on the inside.  I immediately went to a hardware store and replaced the door hardware.

There's a small section within designing thats specialises in psychology of objects, or more acurate, how people think objects work. Watch how many people go wrong with those push-pull doors. They don't read signs or study the door, they just push when the see a flat surface, or pull when they see a handle. And ifit's suddenly a sliding door, they justslam into it face first.

In case of panic, you expect the doors of a building to open outwards. With a car, you always want to be able to get out of the car.

[OTHstrong]

Only relevant if she DID try to get out and couldn't.

staying in a car without leaving a window slightly open is retarded....you would go to jail if you did that to your dog. It was a bunch of stupid Mexicans end of story

no argument there. Of course me and you both know she didn't try to open the door from the inside but as long as there is a 1% possibility that she did BMW loses, end of story 

[Skorp1o]

no argument there. Of course me and you both know she didn't try to open the door from the inside but as long as there is a 1% possibility that she did BMW loses, end of story 

Yep, not the first time a big firm pays out for someone else's stupidity...bit like that old woman who bought a hot coffee from McD's drive through and proceeded to place the cup in between her thighs and open the lid to put sugar in and poured it all over her thighs and burned badly. She got a huge pay packet for spilling hot coffee on herself lol.


 

[Parker]

Every car in history could be opened from the inside. The better question would be why BMW decided to change it. It's a reasonable expectation that it was possible to open the car from the inside. So I don't see this case as having no chance in court.

Yes, you can open the car from the inside when the key is in the ignition. But, have you tried to unlock a door from the inside when the key is not ignition?

Actually, i don't think that there is a case.Because as far as they know, she made no attempts to get out. It was the brother's fault. It is also rare for older kids like her to die in locked cars. And it says it in the manual. Also, the BMW model is from 1997, I don't know if today's models have the same feature.

[Parker]

There's a small section within designing thats specialises in psychology of objects, or more acurate, how people think objects work. Watch how many people go wrong with those push-pull doors. They don't read signs or study the door, they just push when the see a flat surface, or pull when they see a handle. And ifit's suddenly a sliding door, they justslam into it face first.

In case of panic, you expect the doors of a building to open outwards. With a car, you always want to be able to get out of the car.

You can, just kick out the window.

[phreak]

Yes, you can open the car from the inside when the key is in the ignition. But, have you tried to unlock a door from the inside when the key is not ignition?

Yes I have. Again: this works on 99% of all models ever produced. And for those it does not: it is idiotic that it does not work. Driver gets out to do whatever (pay for gas, pick up donut, ...), other occupants cannot leave. Or the driver has to leave the keys in the ignition in a car full of kids for example. That is total bullshit and you know it. Just because you fap to German cars doesn't make this feature a total fail.

Actually, i don't think that there is a case.Because as far as they know, she made no attempts to get out. It was the brother's fault. It is also rare for older kids like her to die in locked cars. And it says it in the manual. Also, the BMW model is from 1997, I don't know if today's models have the same feature.

She made no visible attempts to get out. I doubt that there is a registry of what buttons have been pressed while the key was not in the ignition.

And before you say that she should have kicked in the window: have you actually ever tried doing that? I have. It's fucking hard, and improbable that a small teen girl could do it. Those safety hammers exist for a reason.

[Simple Simon]

Those safety hammers exist for a reason.

On that particular model they are likely located in the boot.

[Parker]

Yes I have. Again: this works on 99% of all models ever produced. And for those it does not: it is idiotic that it does not work. Driver gets out to do whatever (pay for gas, pick up donut, ...), other occupants cannot leave. Or the driver has to leave the keys in the ignition in a car full of kids for example. That is total bullshit and you know it. Just because you fap to German cars doesn't make this feature a total fail.
She made no visible attempts to get out. I doubt that there is a registry of what buttons have been pressed while the key was not in the ignition.

And before you say that she should have kicked in the window: have you actually ever tried doing that? I have. It's fucking hard, and improbable that a small teen girl could do it. Those safety hammers exist for a reason.

It's not that hard to kick out a window, especially a windshield. People do it all the time. See the show Cops, or ask any cop have they seen or had someone kick out a windshield.

When they say that she made no visible attempts, maybe she was laying in the same spot? A 3 series BMW is not a cage to a 14 yr old.

It's not me fapping to German cars (which might have been made in the US), I say this because it was the brother's fault. Not BMW. The brother left his SLEEPING 14 yr old sister in the car, locked the doors, and took the key, and didn't think to check on her until his classes were over. His sister was supposed to be in class anyway.

Now, if you are leaving a young child in the car, usually the person who does that is older, and is the responsible if something happens to that child. Not the manufacturer, regardless of make.
And this "feature" probably didn't exist for just that model BMW, but also the 5 and 7, and Z3.

This is also a reflection of cultures---you come from the UK/Europe, correct? Where there is an expectation of people higher up looking out for you. In the US, you can not always have someone looking over your shoulder.
Also, maybe German engineers didn't think someone would lock a sleeping teenager in the car and roll with the keys and not check on the person. Or that someone who is not a little child would allow some to lock them in a car and then they go to sleep.

[Archer77]

Its never anyones own fault. 

[Shockwave]

Its never anyones own fault. 

Right, in this case, it's everyone BUT the dumbass who left his sister in a fucking locked car with the windows up in the heat.

Although it's dumb ass fuck to not be able to get out of a car thats locked, it's even dumber to leave a kid in a car in the sweltering heat with the windows up. The kid could have died in her sleep from heat stroke, that shit is serious business... when I was in the military Heat Exhaustion/Heat Stroke was one of their primary concerns, they actually have cards telling them how long they can torture us in certain heat levels, and how much water we need to inject every so often for different levels of heat/exertion... if she was passed the fuck out and dehydrated, it wouldn't surprise me if she died in her sleep. Which is NOT BMW's fault at all.

I feel like a lot of people really don't understand how US courts work, they get involved in the emotion of the situation and say "Well they HAVE to find them guilty, thats just WRONG!"

Unfortunatley, thats not at all how our court system works. They have to probe, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that exact feature caused her death, and moreover, that there was no warnings, cautions, or notices ANYWHERE in the material the car came with. If there was, sorry customer, your dumbass fault for not reading the manual and understanding exactly how that piece of machinery operates.

Regardless of right or wrong, thats how it is.

Thats why when you buy stuff, there is a 40 page disclaimer of how not to use it, so if you electrocute yourself by trying to blow dry your hair in the bathtub, it's not the companies fault.

[That_Dude]

Heat stroke

Kind of fucked up she couldn't open the door or sound the horn with the keys out the ignition

Parents Pedro and jacinta are also suing BMW for compensation for the reduction in EBT , food stamps and section 8 resulting from the loss of their anchor.  

Lmao

[Bertha Butt]

This is also a reflection of cultures---you come from the UK/Europe, correct? Where there is an expectation of people higher up looking out for you. In the US, you can not always have someone looking over your shoulder.

Funny, we Europeans (or just the Dutch) think it's the Americans who always need someone to look out for them, with everything they do. Really, when I was in engineering the classes about product safety were hilarious; all those safety warnings where we thought "Well, duh! Obviously you would not do that!" One that I can remember was about a plastic fireman's helmet for young kids. It came with a warning that it was not a real helmet and would not protect a child from getting burned... Or a child size superman's cape with the warning that it won't actually make you fly...

[Shockwave]

Funny, we Europeans (or just the Dutch) think it's the Americans who always need someone to look out for them, with everything they do. Really, when I was in engineering the classes about product safety were hilarious; all those safety warnings where we thought "Well, duh! Obviously you would not do that!" One that I can remember was about a plastic fireman's helmet for young kids. It came with a warning that it was not a real helmet and would not protect a child from getting burned... Or a child size superman's cape with the warning that it won't actually make you fly...

Thats not for our safety, thats yo keep idiots from being able to sue the manufacturer.

People here look for holes in order to get a payday. Everyone has to cover their ass.

Btw I think everyone has given up on you being a female.

[Bertha Butt]

Thats why when you buy stuff, there is a 40 page disclaimer of how not to use it, so if you electrocute yourself by trying to blow dry your hair in the bathtub, it's not the companies fault.

Here in Europe, they ususally don't provide such a lengthy disclaimer. They assume you're not that stupid; they assume you understand that knives can be very sharp and that water and electricity don't mix well. And if you are that stupid, then it's your own fault; don't try to sue the company that made the product.

Still, as a designer it's your job to make a product safe to use. You not only look at what the product is supposed to be used for, but also what other uses consumers are going to use it for. Think of 10 ways to use a kitchen knive apart from cutting food... they probably range from opening letters, to stripping wires, to opening cans and jars, and turning screws.

[Parker]

Funny, we Europeans (or just the Dutch) think it's the Americans who always need someone to look out for them, with everything they do. Really, when I was in engineering the classes about product safety were hilarious; all those safety warnings where we thought "Well, duh! Obviously you would not do that!" One that I can remember was about a plastic fireman's helmet for young kids. It came with a warning that it was not a real helmet and would not protect a child from getting burned... Or a child size superman's cape with the warning that it won't actually make you fly...

Again, cultural. Like Shock said, people here look for a loophole to get a payday. And there is a growing culture of "protect me from myself" which is similar to European attitudes due to socialism.
Take a look at the Toyota accelerator debacle. NASA couldn't find anything wrong, it was "misapplication of the pedal" as Toyota calls it, or "dumb American drivers putting their foot on the wrong pedal.", but they didn't want to say that, because they would lose a lot of brand loyalty. So, I believe they did pay out...and also for the floormats that would hinder the pedals.

[Bertha Butt]

Btw I think everyone has given up on you being a female.

I've given up on anyone here (besides Phreak and me) ever lifting. Makes us even, I suppose.

[Shockwave]

Here in Europe, they ususally don't provide such a lengthy disclaimer. They assume you're not that stupid; they assume you understand that knives can be very sharp and that water and electricity don't mix well. And if you are that stupid, then it's your own fault; don't try to sue the company that made the product.

Still, as a designer it's your job to make a product safe to use. You not only look at what the product is supposed to be used for, but also what other uses consumers are going to use it for. Think of 10 ways to use a kitchen knive apart from cutting food... they probably range from opening letters, to stripping wires, to opening cans and jars, and turning screws.

You're missing the point - it's NOT for the safety of the consumer, it's protection for the manufacturer... because people here WILL intentionally hurt themselves and then sue the company if they don't have a disclaimer on every, single, possible way the product could cause someone harm.