Author Topic: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings  (Read 6070 times)

illuminati

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2014, 02:58:43 PM »


HOWEVER, there has been a very definite shift in the police across the country towards a more militaristic type attitude and the firepower to go with it..

Also there has been a shift with more fuck ups than ever as far as mistreatment of civilians goes, kickong in doors of wrong houses and shooting the owners when they prepare to defend themselves from the unknown and unlawful intrusion...

They are being held to a different standard than the citizens they police.

If anything they should be held to a HIGHER standard of conduct with harsher punishments, as they're supposed to be setting the example, not the ones dealing out punishment for laws they dont follow themselves.

If they knew they would go to jail and rot for the rest of their life they may probably hesitate a little longer before deciding to shoot the old man reaching for his cane as the officers break down his door with automatic weapons and no identification beforehand.












Why can we see & know this & Them in charge of the police cannot.
Very clearly double standards or are we considered lesser people
than them.
Lets hope this situation is rectified asap, Before the public en-mass
do it for them.
That is not what i am advocating, only it may be a last resort.

_aj_

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2014, 03:05:15 PM »
Most people believe either the Democratic or Republican party has their best interest at heart. Most believe a supernatural being watches over them. Obviously some people will believe anything if you show it in TMZ or CNN. Again, I'm not saying there are not bad cops out there. I'm not saying that somewhere in America today, some cop won't be video taped doing something stupid or worse, criminally violent. What I'm saying (My opinion) is that cops today are overall much better than cops 40 yrs ago when it comes to use of force. The difference is obviously the fact today, if police aren't recording themselves via their in car camera, someone else is. There are literally thousands of police contacts daily with citizens that go very well, as they should. Great calls made under the worst of circumstances is the norm. What we get to watch are the very small percentage that screw up. I agree there shouldn't be ANY of those and certainly work towards that goal, but the reality is much different than peoples perceptions in this case. I get upset as well when I watch the video of the cop using excessive force. They need to be fired, or if the incident warrants it, fired and charged with a crime. But I realize that both statistically and from my personal experience, that behavior is the exception.     

What's your view on the militarization of police: the proliferation of swat teams, APCs and no-knock raids on non-violent offenders. The use of federal dollars and military materiel in local policing is obscene.

This is where the perception sea-change is coming from. I am at the point where I believe that a swat team at my door is just here to kill me and I will respond appropriately.

The Ugly

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2014, 03:09:43 PM »
What's your view on the militarization of police: the proliferation of swat teams, APCs and no-knock raids on non-violent offenders. The use of federal dollars and military materiel in local policing is obscene.

This is where the perception sea-change is coming from. I am at the point where I believe that a swat team at my door is just here to kill me and I will respond appropriately.

Eh. Too dramatic.

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2014, 03:12:27 PM »
What's your view on the militarization of police: the proliferation of swat teams, APCs and no-knock raids on non-violent offenders. The use of federal dollars and military materiel in local policing is obscene.

This is where the perception sea-change is coming from. I am at the point where I believe that a swat team at my door is just here to kill me and I will respond appropriately.
Thats what bothers me the most.


In the past,  only the SWAT teams had military gear to respond to threats that were beyond normal police capability...

Now the regular PD is sporting body armor and full tactical gear with military weapons, performing no knock raids on the wrong houses with what amounts to zero military/tactical training.

What happened to the SWAT (SPECIAL WEAPONS AND TACTICS) teams being the paramilitary force? Why are regular officers sporting military gear and acting like soldiers?

YngiweRhoads

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2014, 03:16:22 PM »
Most people believe either the Democratic or Republican party has their best interest at heart. Most believe a supernatural being watches over them. Obviously some people will believe anything if you show it in TMZ or CNN. Again, I'm not saying there are not bad cops out there. I'm not saying that somewhere in America today, some cop won't be video taped doing something stupid or worse, criminally violent. What I'm saying (My opinion) is that cops today are overall much better than cops 40 yrs ago when it comes to use of force. The difference is obviously the fact today, if police aren't recording themselves via their in car camera, someone else is. There are literally thousands of police contacts daily with citizens that go very well, as they should. Great calls made under the worst of circumstances is the norm. What we get to watch are the very small percentage that screw up. I agree there shouldn't be ANY of those and certainly work towards that goal, but the reality is much different than peoples perceptions in this case. I get upset as well when I watch the video of the cop using excessive force. They need to be fired, or if the incident warrants it, fired and charged with a crime. But I realize that both statistically and from my personal experience, that behavior is the exception.     

Agree.
6

OneMoreRep

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2014, 03:45:18 PM »
Here in New York City, the NYPD has taken things to an extreme.

For decades, the NYPD would always use the Internal Affairs division in order to rectify problems within the force. Due to the most recent (last 2 years) incidents, the Mayor's office has put together a separate task force that is here to police the police. They can no longer depend on internal affairs, because they've found that internal affairs simply brushes things under the rug while merely handing out a few 2-3 week suspensions at a time, but never makes as big of an issue as civilians would expect.

Up to this date, I've never had any problems with the NYPD. I've been treated well by close friends that are police officers and received various perks (mini-shield that identifies me as a family member to NYPD Detective and various PBA cards stemming from everything of that of a captain to officers).

All this taken into consideration, I've seen a large number of police brutality incidents over the course of the last 10 years. Sadly, 100% of the time it involves inner city African American males.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

"1"

illuminati

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2014, 03:57:35 PM »
This has been happening for awhile.
You have to take into account the mentality and mental state of the people who are joining the police service and the training or lack there of as well.
When many are being spit out of the academies as fast as they can, that has consequences. Then, there is the fact that the citizenry are also at fault---the culture of "I can do what I want, because 'I can'" and add that same mentality to some of the people who join police force as well.

You have a spiralling problem...












Yes very true.
The police service does have a duty of care,
And they are meant to serve and protect the public.
Although some of the public may not necessarily  
deserve it.
The police are in a position of trust & and to some
extent privilege so their behaviour should also
reflect this, And consequently the punishment if
they abuse their position.
And this is clearly not Happening.

Fuzzy Nuts

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2014, 05:21:55 PM »
How would you feel if a cop threw a flash bang grenade in your 2 year olds crib?

The Ugly

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2014, 05:42:25 PM »
Here in New York City, the NYPD has taken things to an extreme.

For decades, the NYPD would always use the Internal Affairs division in order to rectify problems within the force. Due to the most recent (last 2 years) incidents, the Mayor's office has put together a separate task force that is here to police the police. They can no longer depend on internal affairs, because they've found that internal affairs simply brushes things under the rug while merely handing out a few 2-3 week suspensions at a time, but never makes as big of an issue as civilians would expect.

Up to this date, I've never had any problems with the NYPD. I've been treated well by close friends that are police officers and received various perks (mini-shield that identifies me as a family member to NYPD Detective and various PBA cards stemming from everything of that of a captain to officers).

All this taken into consideration, I've seen a large number of police brutality incidents over the course of the last 10 years. Sadly, 100% of the time it involves inner city African American males.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

"1"

Sad, sure. Brutality is always unacceptable. The black thing, though, isn't that much pretty much what we've seen on Cops for the last 25 years? Without the brutality, of course. Another case of facts being racist, perhaps?

Irongrip400

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2014, 06:01:31 PM »
Did you see that hitch whose husband killed the cop in new jersey?  She said he should've killed more of them. You watch TV and see an animal like that and you know we still need cops.


TheGrinch

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2014, 06:36:16 PM »
militarizing the police was the only way the elites could get around the 'Posse Comitatus' act.

QFT... exactly right..

problem is nobody seems to care... oh.. they will.... soon enough...

wake the fck up sheeple

thebrink

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2014, 07:33:19 PM »
People are just getting fed up with the out of control police brutality . That's what happens . People going to start retaliating!

Fawk this is going to escalate quickly and not end well.

But one thing I don't get is why police are even used anymore , they should (and probably will) quit fucking around and bring in the military to do policing. 

Deacon Jeschin

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2014, 07:45:38 PM »
Fawk this is going to escalate quickly and not end well.

But one thing I don't get is why police are even used anymore , they should (and probably will) quit fucking around and bring in the military to do policing. 

You're right.  They are not needed.

The military's first act taking over should be going to each police station and locking it up with all employees inside.  Crime against society would immediately drop dramatically with each town's most hardened criminals locked away.

thebrink

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2014, 07:46:47 PM »
You're right.  They are not needed.

The military's first act taking over should be going to each police station and locking it up with all employees inside.  Crime against society would immediately drop dramatically with each town's most hardened criminals locked away.

Lol completely fuckin agree man.

Agnostic007

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2014, 05:16:43 AM »











Good post.

Only problem is The bully Boy police are seldom fired or charged,
And that is a major Problem To us the public.
Plus these scum police know the chances of them being accountable is very slim.
Police routinely Lie, fabricate evidence, frame people, beat people, etc and get away
with it. They retire on full pension or are moved to a easy desk job.
They don't suffer the same punishment as the public do, for their crimes.
If the police want to protect each other then What choice does It leave US.

No Trust, No Respect, No Confidence. in Them.



I appreciate that's your opinion. I think you're way off base. We can agree to disagree. But let me respond in like manner to perhaps illustrate how your post looks to me;

The only problem is, most citizens are guilty. They lie, cheat, steal and when they get caught they whine about consequences. They want the protection of the police, they want police to enforce the laws but only for other people, not them. They hate being told no when they want to do something illegal and so they cry and point fingers at the cops because even as children, they resented their parents, teachers, anyone in authority and view the police as the people telling them they can't do whatever they want. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2014, 05:56:26 AM »
I think this is the bottom line.

I agree with Agnostic that the majority of cops are good and go about their business fine, HOWEVER, there has been a very definite shift in the police across the country towards a more militaristic type attitude and the firepower to go with it..

Also there has been a shift with more fuck ups than ever as far as mistreatment of civilians goes, kickong in doors of wrong houses and shooting the owners when they prepare to defend themselves from the unknown and unlawful intrusion...

And its not just the incidents, as pointed out, its about the lack of justice brought upon these officers and them knowing that theyre being held to a different standard than the citizens they police.

If anything they should be held to a HIGHER standard of conduct with harsher punishments, as they're supposed to be setting the example, not the ones dealing out punishment for laws they dont follow themselves.

People wouldn't get so lit up if the officers guilty of committing these atrocities had their lives ruined in the same way a civilian would, but that never seems to happen,  and therein lies the problem. Seems like they k ow they can do whatever the fuck they want and get a slap on the wrist.

If they knew theyd go to jail and rot for the rest of their life theyd probably hesitate a little longer before deciding to shoot the old man reaching for his cane as the officers break down his door with automatic weapons and no identification beforehand.

I agree with your overall point of accountability. I disagree with the idea of the increase in fuck ups. Here I am defending cops by saying "Well they were worse years ago" which is a pretty lame defense I'll admit. But I believe we have improved from 65 till now with training education and overall professionalism. I've said it before, it is worth repeating, the large majority of Internal Affairs cases are generated internally rather than externally. Meaning cops are reporting cops at a higher rate than citizens. You absolutely did not have that ratio even 20 yrs ago.

Holding officers to a higher standard- I agree. We are supposed to be the good guys. Most are. In general, there are two kinds of screw ups... Intentional and unintentional. (there are more catagories but those are the main ones). When a cop does something he knows is wrong, is against policy, against the law and immoral then I have no empathy for them and they should get what they deserve, depending on the act. From Written Reprimands to termination and charges filed. Those are the easy calls. What we see most of the time are unintentional ones. The officer wants to do the right thing, but makes a bad decision and the outcome is negative. The courts have held that policing in the best of situations is a tough job. We are compelled to confront people in sometimes the worst of situations. We are human and sometimes the decisions made with little time to analyze are in hind sight the wrong decisions. IF officers were hammered for every wrong decisions they make we would have no officers making any decisions for fear  the outcome, most times of which they have little control of, would be negative. So I understand the systems reluctance to do that.

As I write this a hundred things pop in my mind and I am tempted to rabbit trail into other issues as I have been in L.E. for 30 yrs and have seen first hand the evolution of my own department over the last 21 years. I think social media and smart phones have given the impression abuse has increased when it has decreased. Having said that, I agree there is still work to be done in holding officers accountable for their actions. We recently had an incident where one of our detectives was at a bank that had been robbed that morning. the manager advised the Detective that a subject had just tried to cash a check with a ID that belonged to another customer he knew. When the Detective questioned the subject the subject took off running. The Detective gave chase and when he caught up with the guy a struggle ensued and the Detectives gun went off inadvertently striking the subject in the back of the head killing him. An investigation took place and he resigned under investigation. He was recently indicted by a Grand Jury and it will go to trial. His actions, while his intent was good, were viewed by Grand Jury as possibly negligent enough to warrant further scrutiny at trial. I don't think the indictment made Youtube and I didn't read much about it on social media but that tends to be the way things go.      

      

Roger Bacon

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2014, 05:58:26 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/online-rants-rightwing-extremism-fuel-fears-for-us-cops-225012920.html

There's a deep concern that there has been a measurable increase in violence against police officers, especially with firearms,” said Rich Roberts, spokesman for the International Union of Police Associations. The anti-police movement “seems to feed off each other online,” he said.

The FBI has increased warnings about possible threats to law enforcement, multiple police sources told Yahoo News. The bureau declined to confirm any change.





I think citizens have much more reason to be concerned considering the high rate of innocent people the police kill.

Shockwave

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2014, 06:01:53 AM »
I appreciate that's your opinion. I think you're way off base. We can agree to disagree. But let me respond in like manner to perhaps illustrate how your post looks to me;

The only problem is, most citizens are guilty. They lie, cheat, steal and when they get caught they whine about consequences. They want the protection of the police, they want police to enforce the laws but only for other people, not them. They hate being told no when they want to do something illegal and so they cry and point fingers at the cops because even as children, they resented their parents, teachers, anyone in authority and view the police as the people telling them they can't do whatever they want. 
I think this is the heart and soul of the problem, right here. "Most citizens ARE guilty", right there youve automaticallu told ue you view most citizens as criminals and then went on to say its because you think they resent your authority.

That is a major issue. Im surealmost ALL ci tizens are guilty of breaking minor laws everyday,  just as im sure almost every police officer breaks minor laws and rules everday. That doesnt make them guilty or criminals, it makes them human.

Looking at citizens like theyre mostly guilty is what makes them resent you. It sets you apart from them and you cease being protectors and public servants and automatically become the asshole whos just trying to bust people to make his precinct some cash.

Yes, most citizens are dumbass hypocrites, but you signed up for the thankless job of protecting them, and thats what police seem to forget. Its your Outlook and attitude as an officer that defines you, that causes people to like the police or hate them.

 You look at them like theyre probably all bad guys and they're going to look right back at you like YOURE the bad guy, because you just made yourself the antagonist and enemy of a person who, statistically speaking,  has done nothing worthy of your suspicion.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2014, 06:02:27 AM »
Everyone in this thread is in agreement, that's pretty rare.  8)

Time for Sheriffs across the country to take over policing.  :D

Agnostic007

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2014, 06:06:21 AM »
This has been happening for awhile. You have to take into account the mentality and mental state of the people and the training or lack thereof of them as well. When many are being spit out of the academies as fast as they can, that has consequences. Then, there is the fact that the citizenry are worse---the culture of "I can do what I want, because 'I can'" and add that same mentality to some of the people who join police force as well.

You have a spiralling problem...

I've mentioned the book Corruption of the Noble Cause before. I read it and the author, thought I don't agree with his position on everything, I think does a good job of painting how something like Rampart can and did happen. 99% of the things cops do wrong aren't about taking bribes or illegal activities but grew from a warped sense of the noble cause. Catch the bad guy, and if you have to fudge a little to do it, it's all for the greater good. The public wants us to get the criminals off the street. Cops want to get the criminals off the street. The corruption starts in the first few years of their career when the seasoned officers teach the rookies how to fudge just a little to make sure the bad guy does time. Courts and the system these days are weighed for the bad guy, or at least the perception exists when the same officer is putting the same burglar away every 3 months. They spend so much time re-arresting the same 20% of the population they figure to even it out a bit. Then it snow balls into what you see on CNN. Then of course there are the thugs in uniform that were going to be abusive A holes no matter what. Unfortunately we hire from the population and even with the best efforts of finding the best people, a psycho gets through. I am optimistic that the scrutiny that exists today will be positive in the end by requiring departments who don't screen much at all, and don't train their officers properly to change their ways.     

ProudVirgin69

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2014, 06:08:45 AM »
I appreciate that's your opinion. I think you're way off base. We can agree to disagree. But let me respond in like manner to perhaps illustrate how your post looks to me;

The only problem is, most citizens are guilty. They lie, cheat, steal and when they get caught they whine about consequences. They want the protection of the police, they want police to enforce the laws but only for other people, not them. They hate being told no when they want to do something illegal and so they cry and point fingers at the cops because even as children, they resented their parents, teachers, anyone in authority and view the police as the people telling them they can't do whatever they want. 

Excellent post. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2014, 06:12:13 AM »
What's your view on the militarization of police: the proliferation of swat teams, APCs and no-knock raids on non-violent offenders. The use of federal dollars and military materiel in local policing is obscene.

This is where the perception sea-change is coming from. I am at the point where I believe that a swat team at my door is just here to kill me and I will respond appropriately.

As far as federal dollars and military equipment. With the war winding down there are massive amounts of military equipment that will be moth balled. Most departments get this equipment free, since tax payers have already paid for it. I'm of the mindset that if there is equipment out there available to the police that will make them safer to do their jobs, then by all means use it. Of course that is within reason. 50 cals and grenade launchers in a residential enviornment is ridiculous but armored vehicles that provide protection to swat teams that have to get close to an armed subject, it's stupid not to use it. I realize there is a danger of overkill and perception to the public is important. But I want the officers to be as safe as possible to do their jobs.     

Agnostic007

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2014, 06:18:25 AM »
Thats what bothers me the most.


In the past,  only the SWAT teams had military gear to respond to threats that were beyond normal police capability...

Now the regular PD is sporting body armor and full tactical gear with military weapons, performing no knock raids on the wrong houses with what amounts to zero military/tactical training.

What happened to the SWAT (SPECIAL WEAPONS AND TACTICS) teams being the paramilitary force? Why are regular officers sporting military gear and acting like soldiers?

I can't speak for every department but in Austin with a force of about 1800 officers and a city with over a million folks counting the suburbs we don't have regular officers geared up. All officers performing search warrants are tactically trained on dynamic entry. I understand the reasoning behind no knock entry. I would never make the call that officers have to announce their presence in every case. However, before a no knock entry is done, they better be 100% sure that is the right address and they have a legitimate reason for doing it. In the event entry is made at the wrong address due to negligence on their part, regardless of the outcome, I would advocate termination. If the outcome was injury to an innocent party, then charges. 

Roger Bacon

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Re: Online rants, anti-government radicals fuel fear of U.S. cop killings
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2014, 06:20:58 AM »
I can't speak for every department but in Austin with a force of about 1800 officers and a city with over a million folks counting the suburbs we don't have regular officers geared up. All officers performing search warrants are tactically trained on dynamic entry. I understand the reasoning behind no knock entry. I would never make the call that officers have to announce their presence in every case. However, before a no knock entry is done, they better be 100% sure that is the right address and they have a legitimate reason for doing it. In the event entry is made at the wrong address due to negligence on their part, regardless of the outcome, I would advocate termination. If the outcome was injury to an innocent party, then charges. 

Some citizen was just recently acquitted of killing an officer in a no knock entry at the wrong house. Can't remember where, read it the other day.