Author Topic: Israel and Gaza - discussion (Read 6075 times)

Wolfox · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2014, 01:45:33 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on July 21, 2014, 01:23:33 PM

It does not take technology or means to follow the law of armed conflict. Even poor countries and armies can refuse to put command and control centers in residential neighborhoods, surrounded by noncombatants. Rouge military outfits can refuse to put soldiers in hospitals and churches. It doesn't take resources to refrain from targeting civilians with bombs.

But those folks are terrorists. They don't follow rules.

Israel engages in terrorism too. They don't follow the rules either. The U.N. has been highly critical of Israel and if it weren't for the U.S, Israel would have long been blacklisted by the world for their crimes against humanity and ever increasing illegal settlements.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2014, 01:51:37 PM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 01:45:33 PM

Israel engages in terrorism too. They don't follow the rules either. The U.N. has been highly critical of Israel and if it weren't for the U.S, Israel would have long been blacklisted by the world for their crimes against humanity and ever increasing illegal settlements.

Really? They intentionally target noncombatants? They blow up hospitals and churches? Bomb marketplaces?

When?

Wolfox · « **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2014, 01:58:15 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on July 21, 2014, 01:51:37 PM

Really? They intentionally target noncombatants? They blow up hospitals and churches? Bomb marketplaces?

When?

Hospitals, water lines, sewage systems, schools, family homes in residential areas, journalists,kids playing soccer on beaches which foreign journalists witnessed themselves etc etc.

Are you new to this or something? If so, i suggest you start reading researching.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #28 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:00:01 PM »

Egypt Jordan Canada and others are supporting Israel

Dos Equis · « **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:00:28 PM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 01:58:15 PM

Hospitals, water lines, sewage systems, schools, family homes in residential areas, journalists,kids playing soccer on beaches which foreign journalists witnessed themselves etc etc.

And you're saying they were specifically targeting civilians and not terrorists imbedded within civilians?

You have a link? I'd like to read it.

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #30 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:03:59 PM »

Quote from: Soul Crusher on July 21, 2014, 02:00:01 PM

Egypt Jordan Canada and others are supporting Israel

Meanwhile in The Islamic Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:

Wolfox · « **Reply #31 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:06:59 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on July 21, 2014, 02:00:28 PM

And you're saying they were specifically targeting civilians and not terrorists imbedded within civilians?

You have a link? I'd like to read it.

In many cases, yes. IM on my mobile now so you'll have to wait.

Honestly im a bit shocked that you aren't aware of all this. Ill help you out tho.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #32 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:08:10 PM »

The more dead hamas terrorists and those that birth their evil spawn the better

Dos Equis · « **Reply #33 on:** July 21, 2014, 02:13:55 PM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 02:06:59 PM

In many cases, yes. IM on my mobile now so you'll have to wait.

Honestly im a bit shocked that you aren't aware of all this. Ill help you out tho.

I'm aware of propaganda. I'm not aware of any substantiated allegations of Israel targeting civilians. But I'll read whatever you link. Thanks.

Kazan · « **Reply #34 on:** July 21, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 01:45:33 PM

Israel engages in terrorism too. They don't follow the rules either. The U.N. has been highly critical of Israel and if it weren't for the U.S, Israel would have long been blacklisted by the world for their crimes against humanity and ever increasing illegal settlements.

Why would you follow the "rules" when the enemy doesn't give a damn about "rules". You give shelter and support to groups like Hamas, you eventually have to pay the piper. Maybe the "pals" should take a good look at what is causing their problems and kick their asses out of Gaza

Skip8282 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 21, 2014, 06:32:58 PM »

Quote from: Ron on July 20, 2014, 08:13:12 PM

Sad - they find the missiles at the school, yet may have given them back to Hamas. Come on.

No. Sadly, the Palestinian people want peace. Most of them do. But Hamas does not, and uses them and doesnt care about them. Very sad. No one wants missles coming to them, either way. But Hamas needed this, because the Arab world was slowly stopping to give them money, and worse - Egypt doesnt want anything to do with them, as well as many other Arab nations.

What is not noted here is that Israel and Egypt are working together. At the same time Israel responded to Hamas' rejection of the cease fire, Egypt closed all borders and illegal tunnel activity on their end too.

Nope. Not only was Hamas elected by Palestinians it is impossible for them to function without their help. Of course there are those that don't want a fight, as in any war. But trying to portray Hamas as so different from the average Palestinian - the very ones who put them in power - just reeks of politically correct non-sense.

Skip8282 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 21, 2014, 06:55:57 PM »

Quote from: Cholo4Life on July 21, 2014, 06:40:43 PM

What would $620+ million dollars do to improve our border security? That's what the US is sending Isreal for it's missile security system, about double what was initially allocated. Done with bi-partisan support.

Yea, I'm not big on giving money to either side. I think we have to help our own first, before we give away to others. But, this is completely approved yet, so the amount might be reduced, and you can usually see some type of caveat where the money has to be used (or a portion of it) in the U.S.

loco · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2014, 01:42:43 PM »

Zechariah 12:2-3 New International Version (NIV)

2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.
3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

dario73 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 25, 2014, 07:21:09 AM »

nasht5 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 25, 2014, 08:24:49 AM »

israel needs to wipeout gaza, flatten it, bulldoze it and blow it up. remove gaza from the face of the earth.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #40 on:** July 25, 2014, 08:25:05 AM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 02:06:59 PM

In many cases, yes. IM on my mobile now so you'll have to wait.

Honestly im a bit shocked that you aren't aware of all this. Ill help you out tho.

Are u a fucking idiot..Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills its own people. Israel is a sovereign nation who is allowed to defend itself. Israel could kill every man, woman and child in Gaza in about 72 hours...all their doing is getting their own folks killed doing it the hard way. I'd fuel air bomb the entire area for 48 hours...the world would get over it.

RRKore · « **Reply #41 on:** July 25, 2014, 09:16:56 AM »

Quote from: Roger Bacon on July 21, 2014, 09:19:03 AM

I don't understand the international hierarchy one bit. Is this kind of thing just for show?

Good, thoughtful post, imo.

I have no clue about this either, btw.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #42 on:** July 25, 2014, 10:54:48 AM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on July 25, 2014, 08:25:05 AM

Are u a fucking idiot..Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills its own people. Israel is a sovereign nation who is allowed to defend itself. Israel could kill every man, woman and child in Gaza in about 72 hours...all their doing is getting their own folks killed doing it the hard way. I'd fuel air bomb the entire area for 48 hours...the world would get over it.

I'm waiting for him to post something that shows Israel doing something like this:

Quote

Quote from: dario73 on July 25, 2014, 09:51:31 AM
Firing from a hospital? A hospital? No wonder Palestinians are getting slaughtered.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #43 on:** July 25, 2014, 07:46:58 PM »

REPORTS: MASSIVE NEW YEAR'S TERRORIST INVASION OF ISRAEL THWARTED BY SECURITY FORCES
Breitbart.com ^ | 7/25/14 | PAUL MILLER
Posted on July 25, 2014 10:09:50 PM EDT by PA Engineer

Thousands of Hamas-linked terrorists planned to invade Israel on the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashanah), which begins on September 24, according to an Israel security source.

First reported by Ma'ariv, then in English by i24news, “thousands of terrorists were meant to cross over to Israel from Gaza through the tunnels and kill and kidnap as many Israelis as they could. The source added that the army learned about the huge planned attack during the interrogations of Hamas prisoners, captured during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza.”

Reports state that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu informed his cabinet about the foiled plot during a Thursday cabinet meeting. The leader of the Jewish State reportedly expressed to officials that if this attack was not stopped, the number of Israeli fatalities may have been higher than the over 2,200 deaths Israel suffered during 1973 Yom Kippur War.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...

flipper5470 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 25, 2014, 08:02:07 PM »

Krauthammer sums it so nicely....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-oped-krauthammer-on-moral-clarity-0721-20140721,0,199395.column

Hamas isn't interested in coexistence...they want to eradicate Israel.

RRKore · « **Reply #45 on:** July 26, 2014, 01:27:26 AM »

Quote from: flipper5470 on July 25, 2014, 08:02:07 PM

Krauthammer sums it so nicely....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-oped-krauthammer-on-moral-clarity-0721-20140721,0,199395.column

Hamas isn't interested in coexistence...they want to eradicate Israel.

Some kind of funky paywall preventing me from reading this.

nasht5 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 26, 2014, 07:45:02 AM »

Israel should send a message to it's neighbors that in 48hrs they are going to level gaza and if they do not leave within the next 48hrs they will be considered combatants to be killed. then Israel should destroy gaza and kill EVERY FUCKING PERSON WHO STAYS; MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN EVERY FUCKING TERRORIST ONE OF THEM.

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #47 on:** July 26, 2014, 07:46:14 AM »

Almost all major news organizations around the world are Jewish owned. Why does the mainstream media worldwide demonize Israel?

RRKore · « **Reply #48 on:** July 26, 2014, 10:17:52 AM »

Quote from: Roger Bacon on July 26, 2014, 07:46:14 AM

Almost all major news organizations around the world are Jewish owned. Why does the mainstream media worldwide demonize Israel?

Maybe because Israel is going too far?

For me, it's Israel's blatant PR campaign that grates.

Personally, as a half-portagee from CA, I have no dog in this fight so I'm apt to take the view of some others that when the powerful and the not-so-powerful clash militarily then the weaker side is gonna likely to get smashed. It's not pleasant but it's nothing new.

What offends me and motivates me to weigh in on this old and complicated conflict which involves plenty of blame for both sides is not the military action of Israel (which I find fairly unremarkable) but the fact that they're simultaneously conducting a full-scale PR campaign to paint themselves as innocent victims while giving a lopsided beating to Palestine. It's offensive to me because it's so heavy-handed that it seems to bespeak of an utter lack of respect for their PR campaign's intended audience. (Translation: They must think all Americans are a bunch of fucking retards to buy what they're selling.)

Rant over, lol.

RRKore · « **Reply #49 on:** July 26, 2014, 10:28:30 AM »

Quote from: Wolfox on July 21, 2014, 01:45:33 PM

Israel engages in terrorism too. They don't follow the rules either. The U.N. has been highly critical of Israel and if it weren't for the U.S, Israel would have long been blacklisted by the world for their crimes against humanity and ever increasing illegal settlements.

Hmmm. You seem to know more about this issue than some others on this thread. Seem like some folks see the word "terrorist" and that's all they need to know.

I don't endorse this view but a Palestinian commenter on another site said, "Getting mad at Palestinians for lobbing ineffective rockets at Israel is like getting mad at a woman for slapping her rapist." I'm not sure how Israel has been "raping" Palestine but this comment does give me food for thought.

Ex-Israeli soldier speaks out… what he says will change everything you think you know about Israel!

The talk by Eran Efrati was filmed in Denver, Colorado on March 3, 2014 as part of The Soldier and the Refusenik U.S. tour with Maya Wind. Eran talk about his experiences in the IDF and then more broadly discusses Israel, its relationship to the U.S. and the global expansion of militarism.

Eran Efrati, 28, was born and raised in Jerusalem. After graduating high school he enlisted in the IDF, where he served as a combat soldier and company sergeant in Battalion 50 of the Nachal Division. He spent most of his service in Hebron and throughout the West Bank. In 2009, he was discharged and joined Breaking the Silence, an organization of veteran Israeli soldiers working to raise awareness about the daily reality in the Occupied Territories. He worked as the chief investigator of the organization, collecting testimonies from IDF soldiers about their activities. He also guided political tours and to the West Bank and worked to educate Israeli youth about the reality of being a soldier in an occupying army. His collected testimonies appear in the booklet “Operation Cast Lead” and their most recent release “Our Harsh Logic”. Since leaving Breaking the Silence, his investigative reports appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post and The Guardian. Today he is active with the Israeli groups Anarchists Against the Wall and Boycott from Within.

More here:
http://www.digital-resistance.com/insight/ex-israeli-soldier-speaks-out-shocking-truth-about-israel/