Author Topic: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death  (Read 54571 times)

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #125 on: August 01, 2014, 05:38:53 PM »
When you have FIVE cops, you don't need to use a forbidden move.

if it was ONE cop, in a "it was me or him" free for all in an alley at 4am, and dude was coked out of his head and had an upper hand, then yes, I can see how it could happen.  

But with FIVE cops, and the guy on the ground, and the guy publicly declaring he cannot breathe over and over... Well, you gotta use your head in this case, and you just gotta tase, hold him down, cuff his hands and legs, and get him in the car.  No need to break his airway when there's 5 of you.  

They were pissed he wasn't cooperating, and the chokehold was a punitive action.  That's my belief.  And I believe they did it to him a few times, as he said "I cannot breathe" in between turns.  They wanted to sleep him, as they do on television.  There's a reason the move is banned... because this can happen.

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #126 on: August 01, 2014, 05:48:57 PM »
When you have FIVE cops, you don't need to use a forbidden move.

if it was ONE cop, in a "it was me or him" free for all in an alley at 4am, and dude was coked out of his head and had an upper hand, then yes, I can see how it could happen.  

But with FIVE cops, and the guy on the ground, and the guy publicly declaring he cannot breathe over and over... Well, you gotta use your head in this case, and you just gotta tase, hold him down, cuff his hands and legs, and get him in the car.  No need to break his airway when there's 5 of you.  

They were pissed he wasn't cooperating, and the chokehold was a punitive action.  That's my belief.  And I believe they did it to him a few times, as he said "I cannot breathe" in between turns.  They wanted to sleep him, as they do on television.  There's a reason the move is banned... because this can happen.

They didn't even mention the chokehold initially:


Supervising officers who were interviewed after Eric Garner's death failed to mention the chokehold and told investigators that 'the perpetrator's condition did not seem serious,'.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-internal-nypd-report-staten-island-dad-mention-chokehold-article-1.1875221

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #127 on: August 01, 2014, 05:54:49 PM »
They didn't even mention the chokehold initially:
Supervising officers who were interviewed after Eric Garner's death failed to mention the chokehold and told investigators that 'the perpetrator's condition did not seem serious,'.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusiv-internal-nypd-report-staten-island-dad-mention-chokehold-article-1.1875221

that kind of forgetfulness... that 'misreporting'... should be grounds for immediate dismissal from the force.   They're given power of life and death over citizens... their word has to be IMPECCABLE.  There can be no room for "oh yeah, I forgot to mention that whole chokehold thing" 5 minutes after dude dies from, well, being choked.  At that point, covering up cause of death should be worse than the "accident" itself.

George Whorewell

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #128 on: August 01, 2014, 10:56:28 PM »
6'1 400 lbs, and with 31 prior arrests. Forget about skin color.  Once this "unarmed man" tells the cops he's not coming quietly, all bets are off.

And FYI what's the alternative? Should the police just apologize for the intrusion and walk away? Fuck it. Why have laws at all?

It is mind boggling to witness the black "community" get riled up for such a fat, disgusting criminal. Meanwhile, innocent men, women and children are killed in the  "community" on a daily basis and nobody bats an eyebrow. Reminds me of Trayvon!





 


RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #129 on: August 02, 2014, 12:36:19 AM »
6'1 400 lbs, and with 31 prior arrests. Forget about skin color.  Once this "unarmed man" tells the cops he's not coming quietly, all bets are off.

And FYI what's the alternative? Should the police just apologize for the intrusion and walk away? Fuck it. Why have laws at all?

It is mind boggling to witness the black "community" get riled up for such a fat, disgusting criminal. Meanwhile, innocent men, women and children are killed in the  "community" on a daily basis and nobody bats an eyebrow. Reminds me of Trayvon!


6'1" 400 lbs guy in his 40's seemed like a dangerous fighter to you?  LOL.  You could hear that Garner was out of breath before they laid a finger on him.  A guy like that against ONE halfway athletic policeman in an open area is only likely to get Zulu'd or die of a heart attack, seems to me.

As for being some kind of dangerous criminal, all 31 prior arrests were for non-violent offenses and at least some of the cops on scene were familiar with the guy's history.  (Sheesh, how could they not be familiar with the guy if he'd been arrested over 30 times and probably hassled but not arrested even more?)

They should have just talked to the guy.  According to witnesses the cops were called to the scene because two other men had been in some kind of fight (broken up by Garner) but had both left before the cops got there.  Once there, though, they saw the distinctive-looking Garner and started fucking with him (because of his past history).  Garner made some mistakes in dealing with the cops but not ones he should have been killed for.

Whorewell, I think you're just a troll these days but if not you should probably open your eyes and realize that it's not just the black community getting riled up over clear police abuses.  Now, maybe it's only because video recording devices are so common these days, but there is real evidence that police are overstepping their legal bounds by unnecessarily physically abusing black & white citizens (not to mention killing dogs) way too often.


RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2014, 12:47:30 AM »
Zulu getting "Zulu'd":



Tim Sylvia getting "Zulu'd":

Skip8282

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #131 on: August 04, 2014, 04:31:47 PM »
6'1 400 lbs, and with 31 prior arrests. Forget about skin color.  Once this "unarmed man" tells the cops he's not coming quietly, all bets are off.

And FYI what's the alternative? Should the police just apologize for the intrusion and walk away? Fuck it. Why have laws at all?

It is mind boggling to witness the black "community" get riled up for such a fat, disgusting criminal. Meanwhile, innocent men, women and children are killed in the  "community" on a daily basis and nobody bats an eyebrow. Reminds me of Trayvon!




Yeah, the cops should be able to go from light force to murder immediately.  A reasonable progression of force?  Well, that's completely unreasonable.  ::)

I agree though, reminds me of the people who were claiming the size difference between Trayvon and George was immaterial because Zimmerman was such a marshmallow.  Now we're dealing with an even bigger marshmallow and suddenly he's some huge threat that must be contended with.   And we know these cops will claim they were in fear of their lives.

BTW...what did you think of the cop waving happily to the camera at the very end?  Well AFTER he knew the guy was dead.




Skip8282

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #132 on: August 04, 2014, 04:41:49 PM »
Here's all we know about NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo & his use of excessive force:

Pantaleo is an 8-year NYPD veteran.

He has been sued twice within the past two years for alleged civil rights violations.

In the first suit, two men claim Pantaleo and other officers stopped and strip-searched them in broad daylight while they were driving. The officers handcuffed Darren Collins and Tommy Rice and “Pantaleo and/or Conca pulled down the plaintiffs’ pants and underwear, and touched and searched their genital areas, or stood by while this was done in their presence,” the lawsuit alleged. Eventually the men were criminally charged — according to Collins and Rice’s lawyer, Pantaleo had falsely claimed that he saw crack and heroin in plain view, on the vehicle’s back seat, allowing the officers to arrest everyone in the car. The two men each received $15,000 settlements from the city.

In the second suit, Rylawn Walker accused Pantaleo of arresting him on Feb. 16, 2012 even though he was “committing no crime at that time and was not acting in a suspicious manner.” That case is still pending.

All three men were men of color.

According to Collins and Rice’s attorney, Jason Leventhal, who regularly handles civil rights cases lodged against the NYPD, Pantaleo ignored a “life-or-death rule of the NYPD patrol guide” prohibiting chokeholds, and ignored the department’s use-of-force continuum.

The tactic, which can be fatal, is prohibited by departmental policy.


According to Section 203-11 of the NYPD Patrol Guide: “Members of the New York City Police Department will not use choke holds. A choke hold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”


Chokeholds were banned 20 years ago after the death of a young man, Anthony Baez, who was killed in a confrontation with police after a football he was tossing with friends hit a police car. The officer who choked Baez to death was ultimately sentenced to seven years in prison.


http://globalgrind.com/2014/07/23/about-daniel-pantaleo-nypd-officer-eric-garners-chokehold-death-video/


Wow.  What a great cop.  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #133 on: August 05, 2014, 09:42:26 AM »
6'1 400 lbs, and with 31 prior arrests. Forget about skin color.  Once this "unarmed man" tells the cops he's not coming quietly, all bets are off.

And FYI what's the alternative? Should the police just apologize for the intrusion and walk away? Fuck it. Why have laws at all?

It is mind boggling to witness the black "community" get riled up for such a fat, disgusting criminal. Meanwhile, innocent men, women and children are killed in the  "community" on a daily basis and nobody bats an eyebrow. Reminds me of Trayvon!





 



I agree.  It is very easy to lose control of a situation when someone is resisting arrest.  I don't have a problem with multiple officers taking down a guy that size. 

George Whorewell

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #134 on: August 05, 2014, 07:33:53 PM »
This guy met his end the same way as Radio Raheem from "Do the Right Thing"

Therefore, the police used excessive force because of the violent influence of Hollywood. Case closed.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G7TTDEHl5o

RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2014, 03:11:58 AM »
This guy met his end the same way as Radio Raheem from "Do the Right Thing"

Therefore, the police used excessive force because of the violent influence of Hollywood. Case closed.




LOL.  We agree, then.

I think you'll also agree that assigning a small but definite portion of the responsibility for Garner's death to Spike Lee and, maybe, the New York Knicks, would be "doing the right thing" here. ;D

(BTW, chop the "s" off of "https" to embed those youtube vids.)

Wolfox

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2014, 04:02:23 AM »
Looked more like a head lock rather than a true blood or air choke. That fat fuck died due to his self inflected obesity.
A

RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2014, 04:19:49 AM »
Looked more like a head lock rather than a true blood or air choke. That fat fuck died due to his self inflected obesity.

Even if that's true, the cops should still be legally responsible due to the "Eggshell Skull Rule" (which I heard some cops talking about on a cop forum):

This rule holds one liable for all consequences resulting from his or her tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition). The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as that of the shell of an egg, and a tortfeasor who was unaware of the condition injured that person's head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the defendant would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even if the tortfeasor did not intend to cause such a severe injury.

In criminal law, the general maxim is that the defendant must "take their victims as they find them", a quotation from the judgment of Lord Justice Lawton in R v. Blaue (1975), in which the defendant was held responsible for killing his victim, despite his contention that her refusal of a blood transfusion constituted novus actus interveniens.

The doctrine is applied in all areas of torts - intentional torts, negligence, and strict liability cases - as well as in criminal law. There is no requirement of physical contact with the victim - if a trespasser's wrongful presence on the victim's property so terrifies the victim that he has a fatal heart attack, the trespasser will be liable for the damages stemming from his original tort. The foundation for this rule is based primarily on policy grounds. The courts do not want the defendant or accused to rely on the victim's own vulnerability to avoid liability.


More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

24KT

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2014, 09:31:10 PM »
I never get "pissy" on the board.  You're just hypersensitive.  I don't think I've ever been literally upset over anything anyone has said on here.  

I cannot sympathize with someone who has been arrested 31 times.  How the heck does that even happen??  

And no, I'm not saying he deserved to die.  

How does it happen? Surely you're not that naive? If police have decided to target & harass you, ...they will.

Here is an innocent man who was arrested 62 times at his own job. Can you sympathize with him?
It got to the point where his employer ended up filing suit against the Police, armed with the surveillance footage from 15 cameras documenting ongoing harassment, and police violations of law.

w

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2014, 09:41:26 PM »
Are you kidding me???

That remind of the Chris rock bit where he says black guys are always proud about not going to jail. "I've got my GED, I work part time and I have never been to jail" the he points out the obvious "YOURE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO TO JAIL MOTHER FUCKER!!!!"

YOURE NOT SUPPOSED TO FIGHT OR RUN AWAY FROM THE COPS!!!

not doing so does not automatically mean you are complying with them.

Of course the chief was upset I would be as well. Those dumb asses totally mishandled the situation and resulted in the death of a civilian by their hands. I would be super fucking pissed if I was him.


There's a Mom in Columbus Ohio who regrets teaching her Straight A honor role teenaged son this very thing.
He believed it, ...so when the cops came for him for doing absolutely nothing but trying to get to a highschool basketball game, he didn't run, ...and he ended up with a roadside vasectomy.
w

24KT

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2014, 10:56:06 PM »
This grandfather has a definite opinion about the NYPD and the murder of Eric Garner

if you find "un-churchlike" language offensive, you might not want to hear this.


w

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #141 on: August 07, 2014, 09:23:27 AM »
How does it happen? Surely you're not that naive? If police have decided to target & harass you, ...they will.

Here is an innocent man who was arrested 62 times at his own job. Can you sympathize with him?
It got to the point where his employer ended up filing suit against the Police, armed with the surveillance footage from 15 cameras documenting ongoing harassment, and police violations of law.



Against my better judgment, I listened to a portion of the clip.  If what they say is true, then that us obviously harassment, violation of the guy's civil rights, etc.  This is not the norm.

What your clip doesn't establish is that the guy who is the subject of this thread was improperly arrested 31 times. 

tonymctones

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #142 on: August 07, 2014, 07:04:08 PM »
There's a Mom in Columbus Ohio who regrets teaching her Straight A honor role teenaged son this very thing.
He believed it, ...so when the cops came for him for doing absolutely nothing but trying to get to a highschool basketball game, he didn't run, ...and he ended up with a roadside vasectomy.
and that sucks for him doesnt change the fact you shrew...In the vast majority of cases youre better or cooperating with police than running from them or trying to fight them....

you can find exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean the rule isnt valid you dumb ass

tonymctones

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #143 on: August 07, 2014, 07:05:33 PM »
What your clip doesn't establish is that the guy who is the subject of this thread was improperly arrested 31 times. 
of course it doesnt what jagson is used to doing is using one off examples to try and prove that the established rule is untrue.


Al Doggity

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #144 on: August 08, 2014, 02:10:54 AM »
Against my better judgment, I listened to a portion of the clip.  If what they say is true, then that us obviously harassment, violation of the guy's civil rights, etc.  This is not the norm.

What your clip doesn't establish is that the guy who is the subject of this thread was improperly arrested 31 times. 

The point of her post was that the number of arrests  is not the entire story. You said that you could not sympathize with someone who had been arrested 31 times an d asked how that even happens. She gave you an example of a guy who had been arrested twice as many times and an explanation of how that happened: police harassment.

RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #145 on: August 08, 2014, 09:17:21 AM »
The point of her post was that the number of arrests  is not the entire story. You said that you could not sympathize with someone who had been arrested 31 times an d asked how that even happens. She gave you an example of a guy who had been arrested twice as many times and an explanation of how that happened: police harassment.

To be fair to BB, as someone who lives in Hawaii, he's likely not aware of the kind of crap that's all too common in NYC. 

To me, it's understandable if someone who doesn't live in New York chalks up all the videos you can see on the internet these days that seem to indicate police abuses of authority there as being statistically insignificant given the population but, holy shit, is there any other place in the USA where "stop and frisk" is OFFICIAL policy?  Pretty easy to see how that kind of policy lends itself to police abuse.

Personally, I think all cops should wear working body cams all the time.  If that's too much pressure for 'em, tough shit.

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #146 on: August 08, 2014, 09:25:52 AM »
The point of her post was that the number of arrests  is not the entire story. You said that you could not sympathize with someone who had been arrested 31 times an d asked how that even happens. She gave you an example of a guy who had been arrested twice as many times and an explanation of how that happened: police harassment.

I understood her point, although it is difficult to try and prove a point by using an extreme, out-of-the-ordinary example.  Yes, someone getting improperly arrested 60 times is an abuse of police power.  You would think someone involved in the process (prosecutor's office?) would put a stop to it if the guy is arrested and never charged, repeatedly.

But does this prove the guy who is the subject of this story was falsely arrested 31 times?  Absolutely not.  You have any evidence he was wrongfully arrested 31 times?  How do you know he wasn't a career criminal?   

I don't believe law-abiding citizens get wrongfully arrested dozens of times on a regular basis. 

RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #147 on: August 08, 2014, 09:41:07 AM »
I understood her point, although it is difficult to try and prove a point by using an extreme, out-of-the-ordinary example.  Yes, someone getting improperly arrested 60 times is an abuse of police power.  You would think someone involved in the process (prosecutor's office?) would put a stop to it if the guy is arrested and never charged, repeatedly.

But does this prove the guy who is the subject of this story was falsely arrested 31 times?  Absolutely not.  You have any evidence he was wrongfully arrested 31 times?  How do you know he wasn't a career criminal?   

I don't believe law-abiding citizens get wrongfully arrested dozens of times on a regular basis. 

So I guess you can only sympathize with people that you judge to be "law-abiding"?  LOL. 

How does that work in your mind?  Where between being arrested 31 times for non-violent offenses and, say, jaywalking do you draw the line?

Dos Equis

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #148 on: August 08, 2014, 09:50:02 AM »
So I guess you can only sympathize with people that you judge to be "law-abiding"?  LOL. 

How does that work in your mind?  Where between being arrested 31 times for non-violent offenses and, say, jaywalking do you draw the line?

I don't sympathize with career criminals.  I don't have a line between violent and non-violent offenses when it comes to "sympathy." 

I subscribe to the Jim Carey theory:


RRKore

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Re: 5 NYPD cops choke unarmed man to death
« Reply #149 on: August 08, 2014, 10:03:36 AM »
I don't sympathize with career criminals.  I don't have a line between violent and non-violent offenses when it comes to "sympathy." 

I subscribe to the Jim Carey theory:



You don't sympathize with career criminals even when they're extrajudicially killed on the street? 

Then you flat out aren't a good and moral person.