Author Topic: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.  (Read 42828 times)

Novena

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #125 on: July 30, 2014, 12:23:05 AM »
I may have strayed on the last two.  Sorry.

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #126 on: July 30, 2014, 01:13:04 AM »
Dude you are so far wrong it's becoming embarrassing - you are parroting the exact bullshit the Zionist propaganda
machine has fed you - all your facts are WRONG!!!

Watch these vids and educate yourself, please.

Funny you should mention the holocaust , you do know Zionist Jews were behind that right ? of course you wont because your facts are wrong , not one thing you have typed is fact , just what you have been told by a very shrewd propaganda machine.

Again watch these vids and learn and then you will see just how far from the point you really are.
Oh, it's me spitting propaganda, Oh Brother  ::)  And nobodies told me anything dickhead, I don't even watch mainstream broadcast TV, I don't have any means of capturing the TV signal.   I have simply researched both sides and clearly determined the morality level of the two based on their actions and the Muslims lose hundred times over, with their suicide bombings, use of human shields, launching attacks from civilian sites, the brainwashing of their children and teaching them how to launch rockets and to embrace dying for their shit cause, their goal of eliminating JEWS etc etc.

Personally I think ISLAM itself and it's encouragement of TERRORISM is more than enough reason to wipe out MUSLIM shitholes starting with Palestine.  I think we should teach these jihadists fools and their so called moderate supporters what real terror looks like.

And I never started mentioning the holocaust, Palestinian supporters do, once again making absolute fools of themselves. As the side you support ACTUALLY PUT IT IN WRITING THEIR INTENT TO KILL EVER LAST JEWISH MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD.  Even when these terrorists tell you the intent to commit genocide and the second holocaust you are still too stupid to get it.

Here is a tip for you, only the morally deranged would support a terrorist regime like HAMAS.  And that explains it, as Palestinians and LIBTARDS are morally deranged.
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BigRo

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #127 on: July 30, 2014, 01:33:22 AM »
Great video of actual FACT..

Really you guys spouting off absolute bullshit need to educate yourselfs .

Watch,listen and learn or shut the fuck up with this puppet crap.




Yes I listened to it, very good. I suggest Anus Kul and Ubergay listen then try and argue some more.

manuelsonn

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2014, 02:21:33 AM »
Oh, it's me spitting propaganda, Oh Brother  ::)  And nobodies told me anything dickhead, I don't even watch mainstream broadcast TV, I don't have any means of capturing the TV signal.   I have simply researched both sides and clearly determined the morality level of the two based on their actions and the Muslims lose hundred times over, with their suicide bombings, use of human shields, launching attacks from civilian sites, the brainwashing of their children and teaching them how to launch rockets and to embrace dying for their shit cause, their goal of eliminating JEWS etc etc.

Personally I think ISLAM itself and it's encouragement of TERRORISM is more than enough reason to wipe out MUSLIM shitholes starting with Palestine.  I think we should teach these jihadists fools and their so called moderate supporters what real terror looks like.

And I never started mentioning the holocaust, Palestinian supporters do, once again making absolute fools of themselves. As the side you support ACTUALLY PUT IT IN WRITING THEIR INTENT TO KILL EVER LAST JEWISH MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD.  Even when these terrorists tell you the intent to commit genocide and the second holocaust you are still too stupid to get it.

Here is a tip for you, only the morally deranged would support a terrorist regime like HAMAS.  And that explains it, as Palestinians and LIBTARDS are morally deranged.
But us its supporting islam (in afgahnistan 80. in northern africa in 2010s.. )http://news.firedoglake.com/2014/02/04/after-helping-arm-al-qaeda-in-syria-us-government-says-al-qaeda-in-syria-a-threat-to-us/

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #129 on: July 30, 2014, 02:23:34 AM »
We all knew this day would come. Despite decades of pratfalls in the Middle East that have left tens of thousands of Americans dead and racked up trillions of dollars of debt, President Obama decided to once again stick America’s nose into a raging and volatile conflict in the region. The Syrian Civil War is the epitome of a conflict that has no US national interest involved – neither side is allied with the United States nor is likely to ever be nor is there any vital security or even economic interest at stake.

But despite this total lack of relevance to the American people and country, the Obama Administration tried to enter the war. First there was an attempt to pretend the Assad government was a threat to the United States because it had chemical weapons, but then Assad agreed to remove the weapons. So then President Obama bypassed an American law to prevent arming terrorists to arm the “moderate” rebels within Syria.

Not long after Obama dodged the anti-terrorist law, the Al Qaeda faction of the Syrian rebels was in possession of the weapons Obama sent to Syria. So yes, after refusing to follow a law that was supposed to prevent arming terrorists, Obama ended up arming terrorists. Abysmally stupid does not even begin to describe this policy.

And now, after this latest series of screw ups, Secretary Kerry is telling members of Congress that America needs to get more involved in the Syrian Civil War because US armed Al Qaeda is a threat. Seriously.

Two prominent Republican senators say that U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told them — along with 13 other members of a bipartisan congressional delegation — that President Barack Obama’s administration is in need of a new, more assertive, Syria policy; that al-Qaeda-affiliated groups in Syria pose a direct terrorist threat to the U.S. homeland… and that, in Kerry’s view, it may be time to consider more dramatic arming of moderate Syrian rebel factions.

Some define insanity as doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. That definition of insanity surely fits here.

The Obama Administration, after empowering Al Qaeda by sending arms into Syria, wants to send more and better weapons to Syria – in hopes of weakening Al Qaeda.  We truly are exceptional. --- lol, long live the peace

WillGrant

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #130 on: July 30, 2014, 02:38:46 AM »
Oh, it's me spitting propaganda, Oh Brother  ::)  And nobodies told me anything dickhead, I don't even watch mainstream broadcast TV, I don't have any means of capturing the TV signal.   I have simply researched both sides and clearly determined the morality level of the two based on their actions and the Muslims lose hundred times over, with their suicide bombings, use of human shields, launching attacks from civilian sites, the brainwashing of their children and teaching them how to launch rockets and to embrace dying for their shit cause, their goal of eliminating JEWS etc etc.

Personally I think ISLAM itself and it's encouragement of TERRORISM is more than enough reason to wipe out MUSLIM shitholes starting with Palestine.  I think we should teach these jihadists fools and their so called moderate supporters what real terror looks like.

And I never started mentioning the holocaust, Palestinian supporters do, once again making absolute fools of themselves. As the side you support ACTUALLY PUT IT IN WRITING THEIR INTENT TO KILL EVER LAST JEWISH MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD.  Even when these terrorists tell you the intent to commit genocide and the second holocaust you are still too stupid to get it.

Here is a tip for you, only the morally deranged would support a terrorist regime like HAMAS.  And that explains it, as Palestinians and LIBTARDS are morally deranged.
It's pretty obvious you have not researched both sides or you would not be posting the nonsense you do.

It's pretty easy to watch these vids and see the real truth but you carry on spurting out utter bullshit.

This is not about Muslim terrorism you nonce , ffs get your head out your ass , This is about war crimes, ethnic cleansing and atrocities being committed against innocent
people you fucking moron.This is about people being forced from there homes on there fucking land and no the Jews here hold no fucking relation to ancient pre bible
Hebrews , see if you had researched this you would know that.

This isnt an us vs them conflict, christ you are dumb.

Seeming you are educated on this matter did you know Israel fire rockets into Palestine and then tell the media that it was actually Palestine firing rockets into Israel
and that's why they "react" so they use media to say it's rockets being fired on them when it's there rockets landing in Palestine . Thats Zionist Propaganda that idiots like you take as gospel.
But you know that cos you research it  ::)

The type of "rockets" Hammas have are bits of pipe with fertilizer in them that would only do damage if they hit you , now I don't support Hammas , its the innocent Palestine and
Israeli people I support.

Israel are the aggressors here not the other way round , they are the terrorists yet cos you see "Arab" you jump on your band wagon like the angry dwarf you are and peddle off
utter shit.

The USA  held peace talks with Israel and Palestine but it was not peace talks, Clinton came out and said that Israel wanted peace and Palestine said no but thats not what happened.
Arafat was told to give up the remaining land and then his people would get peace but he said , we have given you or had taken 80%  of our land already , the remaining 20% being west bank
and gaza strip will remain in our hands yet it was reported that Palestine did not want peace because they wanted to keep there remaining land , see how fucked the reporting is that you listen
to and believe , of course you know this as you have researched both sides - utter bullshit you have , you are an anti muslim asshole who supports the aggressor in this instance.

Do you know the average muslim person in the street is nothing like the shit you spit ? just like the average jew in Israel is nothing like the zionist scum that unfortunatly control that area and
are supported by fucked up governments around the world.


There's so much nasty shit I could type up here that these pricks have done and do and how they control your thought process , but you are weak and won't do real research to discover the
real truth.
So there's no need to waste anymore energy on you , carry on with your hate fueled rants, you clearly are ignorant and pig headed.

WillGrant

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #131 on: July 30, 2014, 02:41:54 AM »
Yes I listened to it, very good. I suggest Anus Kul and Ubergay listen then try and argue some more.
There anger blinds them, they wont listen as they will see they are wrong but they are to stubborn
to ever admit it , sad really.

SuperTed

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #132 on: July 30, 2014, 03:07:25 AM »
It's pretty obvious you have not researched both sides or you would not be posting the nonsense you do.

It's pretty easy to watch these vids and see the real truth but you carry on spurting out utter bullshit.

This is not about Muslim terrorism you nonce , ffs get your head out your ass , This is about war crimes, ethnic cleansing and atrocities being committed against innocent
people you fucking moron.This is about people being forced from there homes on there fucking land and no the Jews here hold no fucking relation to ancient pre bible
Hebrews , see if you had researched this you would know that.

This isnt an us vs them conflict, christ you are dumb.

Seeming you are educated on this matter did you know Israel fire rockets into Palestine and then tell the media that it was actually Palestine firing rockets into Israel
and that's why they "react" so they use media to say it's rockets being fired on them when it's there rockets landing in Palestine . Thats Zionist Propaganda that idiots like you take as gospel.
But you know that cos you research it  ::)

The type of "rockets" Hammas have are bits of pipe with fertilizer in them that would only do damage if they hit you , now I don't support Hammas , its the innocent Palestine and
Israeli people I support.

Israel are the aggressors here not the other way round , they are the terrorists yet cos you see "Arab" you jump on your band wagon like the angry dwarf you are and peddle off
utter shit.

The USA  held peace talks with Israel and Palestine but it was not peace talks, Clinton came out and said that Israel wanted peace and Palestine said no but thats not what happened.
Arafat was told to give up the remaining land and then his people would get peace but he said , we have given you or had taken 80%  of our land already , the remaining 20% being west bank
and gaza strip will remain in our hands yet it was reported that Palestine did not want peace because they wanted to keep there remaining land , see how fucked the reporting is that you listen
to and believe , of course you know this as you have researched both sides - utter bullshit you have , you are an anti muslim asshole who supports the aggressor in this instance.

Do you know the average muslim person in the street is nothing like the shit you spit ? just like the average jew in Israel is nothing like the zionist scum that unfortunatly control that area and
are supported by fucked up governments around the world.


There's so much nasty shit I could type up here that these pricks have done and do and how they control your thought process , but you are weak and won't do real research to discover the
real truth.
So there's no need to waste anymore energy on you , carry on with your hate fueled rants, you clearly are ignorant and pig headed.

You’re just going to get another long winded response from E-Kul which could be summarized into one sentence:

“I fucking hate Muslims and therefore support anyone who fights against them!”

 :D

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #133 on: July 30, 2014, 03:09:19 AM »
Is there something happening in Israel?
I dont watch TV news.

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #134 on: July 30, 2014, 03:30:30 AM »
It's pretty obvious you have not researched both sides or you would not be posting the nonsense you do.

It's pretty easy to watch these vids and see the real truth but you carry on spurting out utter bullshit.

This is not about Muslim terrorism you nonce , ffs get your head out your ass , This is about war crimes, ethnic cleansing and atrocities being committed against innocent
people you fucking moron.This is about people being forced from there homes on there fucking land and no the Jews here hold no fucking relation to ancient pre bible
Hebrews , see if you had researched this you would know that.

This isnt an us vs them conflict, christ you are dumb.

Seeming you are educated on this matter did you know Israel fire rockets into Palestine and then tell the media that it was actually Palestine firing rockets into Israel
and that's why they "react" so they use media to say it's rockets being fired on them when it's there rockets landing in Palestine . Thats Zionist Propaganda that idiots like you take as gospel.
But you know that cos you research it  ::)

The type of "rockets" Hammas have are bits of pipe with fertilizer in them that would only do damage if they hit you , now I don't support Hammas , its the innocent Palestine and
Israeli people I support.

Israel are the aggressors here not the other way round , they are the terrorists yet cos you see "Arab" you jump on your band wagon like the angry dwarf you are and peddle off
utter shit.

The USA  held peace talks with Israel and Palestine but it was not peace talks, Clinton came out and said that Israel wanted peace and Palestine said no but thats not what happened.
Arafat was told to give up the remaining land and then his people would get peace but he said , we have given you or had taken 80%  of our land already , the remaining 20% being west bank
and gaza strip will remain in our hands yet it was reported that Palestine did not want peace because they wanted to keep there remaining land , see how fucked the reporting is that you listen
to and believe , of course you know this as you have researched both sides - utter bullshit you have , you are an anti muslim asshole who supports the aggressor in this instance.

Do you know the average muslim person in the street is nothing like the shit you spit ? just like the average jew in Israel is nothing like the zionist scum that unfortunatly control that area and
are supported by fucked up governments around the world.


There's so much nasty shit I could type up here that these pricks have done and do and how they control your thought process , but you are weak and won't do real research to discover the
real truth.
So there's no need to waste anymore energy on you , carry on with your hate fueled rants, you clearly are ignorant and pig headed.
You are clearly a delusional brainwashed moron who laps up the lies of jihadists.  Good luck with that!
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manuelsonn

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #135 on: July 30, 2014, 04:17:45 AM »
You are clearly a delusional brainwashed moron who laps up the lies of jihadists.  Good luck with that!
no, you are clearly a delusional brainwashed moron who laps up the lies of zionists.Good luck with that!

WillGrant

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #136 on: July 30, 2014, 04:31:43 AM »
no, you are clearly a delusional brainwashed moron who laps up the lies of zionists.Good luck with that!
This.


Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #137 on: July 30, 2014, 04:37:21 AM »
This.


Oh well, I can still enjoy waking every morning to see how many more terrorists in Palestine have been killed.   :-*
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BigRo

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #138 on: July 30, 2014, 04:48:47 AM »
you enjoy waking every morning to see children slaughtered by the dozen? sick fuck.

WillGrant

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #139 on: July 30, 2014, 04:52:37 AM »
you enjoy waking every morning to see children slaughtered by the dozen? sick fuck.
He supports Zionists , These sickos have pedophile cults set up around the world
so of course he will get off on seeing kids tortured.


The Whole Story Of Zionist Conspiracy [The Filthy History Of Pedophilia,Murder & Bigotry]


I see it fitting posting the above seeming as E - Kul has a weird obsession with pedophilia and Muslim history

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #140 on: July 30, 2014, 04:53:05 AM »
you enjoy waking every morning to see children slaughtered by the dozen? sick fuck.
They are better of dead.  And who is responsible for them being put in harms way?  Oh right, their own parents, their own people,  But we all know libtards worship terrorists.  In a libtards eyes, a terrorist can do no wrong, to a libtard any act of terrorism committed must be justified.  And you prefer palestinian children to be raised by terrorists, kept ignorant, taught to hate and how to fire rockets, taught to worship a pedophile and practise terrorism and used as human shields  You sick fuck, who would wish such a life on innocent children, oh that'rs right, libtards everywhere wish such a thing.  What a sick sick worldview.  And if Palestine gathers power and support they will kill far more children than israel ever would.  Who would wish such a thing, oh right, the sick ant-semitic libtards desire nothing more than to see the Jews eradicated.  They can never get enough Jewish blood, they always scream for more, more, more...

I don't know what is more satisfying, the killing of terrorists and the people who support them or watching the libtards squirm and writhe in that homo rageful way that they do, as if they are holier than thou and the only decent people left on the planet.
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BigRo

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #141 on: July 30, 2014, 04:56:33 AM »
perhaps if they were given adequate land and freedom to govern themselves they could live a proper life. Did you watch that video fuckface?

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #142 on: July 30, 2014, 05:00:32 AM »
perhaps if they were given adequate land and freedom to govern themselves they could live a proper life. Did you watch that video fuckface?
I have watched countless videos and commentaries on the subject, I am well aware of the Islamic propaganda that gets around.  With 1 billion Muslims all baying for Jewish blood, and the fact they make no secret of lying compulsively to achieve their final solution of eradicating the Jew, I am surprised so many can actually see the truth.  Thank God there are just enough reasonable people to understand the difference in morality between the two sides.  

They have been offered land, freedom and opportunity countless times, they always reject it, they don't want that because they want to eradicate the Jewish people.  Besides, they are such dysfunctional people they could never create a prosperous civilised society if they were given the entire Country.
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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #143 on: July 30, 2014, 05:08:57 AM »
a job awaits you as a Isreali ambassador some of the shit you come out with. Offered land freedom and opportunity? Fucking lol. Sorry to be taking your time here I know you've lots of circumsized penis to be blowing.

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2014, 05:14:21 AM »
Why Don’t I Criticize Israel? - Sam Harris
Sam Harris is an American author, philosopher, and neuroscientist. He is the co-founder and chief executive of Project Reason


I was going to do a podcast on a series of questions, but I got so many questions on the same topic that I think I’m just going to do a single response here, and we’ll do an #AskMeAnything podcast next time.

The question I’ve now received in many forms goes something like this: Why is it that you never criticize Israel? Why is it that you never criticize Judaism? Why is it that you always take the side of the Israelis over that of the Palestinians?

Now, this is an incredibly boring and depressing question for a variety of reasons. The first, is that I have criticized both Israel and Judaism. What seems to have upset many people is that I’ve kept some sense of proportion. There are something like 15 million Jews on earth at this moment; there are a hundred times as many Muslims.  I’ve debated rabbis who, when I have assumed that they believe in a God that can hear our prayers, they stop me mid-sentence and say, “Why would you think that I believe in a God who can hear prayers?” So there are rabbis—conservative rabbis—who believe in a God so elastic as to exclude every concrete claim about Him—and therefore, nearly every concrete demand upon human behavior. And there are millions of Jews, literally millions among the few million who exist, for whom Judaism is very important, and yet they are atheists. They don’t believe in God at all. This is actually a position you can hold in Judaism, but it’s a total non sequitur in Islam or Christianity.

So, when we’re talking about the consequences of irrational beliefs based on scripture, the Jews are the least of the least offenders. But I have said many critical things about Judaism. Let me remind you that parts of Hebrew Bible—books like Leviticus and Exodus and Deuteronomy—are the most repellent, the most sickeningly unethical documents to be found in any religion. They’re worse than the Koran. They’re worse than any part of the New Testament. But the truth is, most Jews recognize this and don’t take these texts seriously. It’s simply a fact that most Jews and most Israelis are not guided by scripture—and that’s a very good thing.

Of course, there are some who are. There are religious extremists among Jews. Now, I consider these people to be truly dangerous, and their religious beliefs are as divisive and as unwarranted as the beliefs of devout Muslims. But there are far fewer such people.

For those of you who worry that I never say anything critical about Israel:  My position on Israel is somewhat paradoxical. There are questions about which I’m genuinely undecided. And there’s something in my position, I think, to offend everyone. So, acknowledging how reckless it is to say anything on this topic, I’m nevertheless going to think out loud about it for a few minutes.

I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state. I think it is obscene, irrational and unjustifiable to have a state organized around a religion. So I don’t celebrate the idea that there’s a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. I certainly don’t support any Jewish claims to real estate based on the Bible.

Though I just said that I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state, the justification for such a state is rather easy to find. We need look no further than the fact that the rest of the world has shown itself eager to murder the Jews at almost every opportunity. So, if there were going to be a state organized around protecting members of a single religion, it certainly should be a Jewish state. Now, friends of Israel might consider this a rather tepid defense, but it’s the strongest one I’ve got. I think the idea of a religious state is ultimately untenable. [Note: It is worth observing, however, that Israel isn’t “Jewish” in the sense that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are “Muslim.” As my friend Jerry Coyne points out, Israel is actually less religious than the U.S., and it guarantees freedom of religion to its citizens. Israel is not a theocracy, and one could easily argue that its Jewish identity is more cultural than religious. However, if we ask why the Jews wouldn’t move to British Columbia if offered a home there, we can see the role that religion still plays in their thinking.]

Needless to say, in defending its territory as a Jewish state, the Israeli government and Israelis themselves have had to do terrible things. They have, as they are now, fought wars against the Palestinians that have caused massive losses of innocent life. More civilians have been killed in Gaza in the last few weeks than militants. That’s not a surprise because Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. Occupying it, fighting wars in it, is guaranteed to get woman and children and other noncombatants killed. And there’s probably little question over the course of fighting multiple wars that the Israelis have done things that amount to war crimes. They have been brutalized by this process—that is, made brutal by it. But that is largely the due to the character of their enemies. [Note: I was not giving Israel a pass to commit war crimes. I was making a point about the realities of living under the continuous threat of terrorism and of fighting multiple wars in a confined space.]

Whatever terrible things the Israelis have done, it is also true to say that they have used more restraint in their fighting against the Palestinians than we—the Americans, or Western Europeans—have used in any of our wars. They have endured more worldwide public scrutiny than any other society has ever had to while defending itself against aggressors. The Israelis simply are held to a different standard. And the condemnation leveled at them by the rest of the world is completely out of proportion to what they have actually done. [Note: I was not saying that because they are more careful than we have been at our most careless, the Israelis are above criticism. War crimes are war crimes.]

It is clear that Israel is losing the PR war and has been for years now.  One of the most galling things for outside observers about the current war in Gaza is the disproportionate loss of life on the Palestinian side. This doesn’t make a lot of moral sense. Israel built bomb shelters to protect its citizens. The Palestinians built tunnels through which they could carry out terror attacks and kidnap Israelis. Should Israel be blamed for successfully protecting its population in a defensive war? I don’t think so. [Note: I was not suggesting that the deaths of Palestinian noncombatants are anything less than tragic. But if retaliating against Hamas is bound to get innocents killed, and the Israelis manage to protect their own civilians in the meantime, the loss of innocent life on the Palestinian side is guaranteed to be disproportionate.]

But there is no way to look at the images coming out Gaza—especially of infants and toddlers riddled by shrapnel—and think that this is anything other than a monstrous evil. Insofar as the Israelis are the agents of this evil, it seems impossible to support them. And there is no question that the Palestinians have suffered terribly for decades under the occupation. This is where most critics of Israel appear to be stuck. They see these images, and they blame Israel for killing and maiming babies. They see the occupation, and they blame Israel for making Gaza a prison camp. I would argue that this is a kind of moral illusion, borne of a failure to look at the actual causes of this conflict, as well as of a failure to understand the intentions of the people on either side of it. [Note: I was not saying that the horror of slain children is a moral illusion; nor was I minimizing the suffering of the Palestinians under the occupation. I was claiming that Israel is not primarily to blame for all this suffering.]

The truth is that there is an obvious, undeniable, and hugely consequential moral difference between Israel and her enemies. The Israelis are surrounded by people who have explicitly genocidal intentions towards them. The charter of Hamas is explicitly genocidal. It looks forward to a time, based on Koranic prophesy, when the earth itself will cry out for Jewish blood, where the trees and the stones will say “O Muslim, there’s a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.” This is a political document. We are talking about a government that was voted into power by a majority of Palestinians. [Note: Yes, I know that not every Palestinian supports Hamas, but enough do to have brought them to power. Hamas is not a fringe group.]

The discourse in the Muslim world about Jews is utterly shocking. Not only is there Holocaust denial—there’s Holocaust denial that then asserts that we will do it for real if given the chance. The only thing more obnoxious than denying the Holocaust is to say that it should have happened; it didn’t happen, but if we get the chance, we will accomplish it. There are children’s shows in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere that teach five-year-olds about the glories of martyrdom and about the necessity of killing Jews.

And this gets to the heart of the moral difference between Israel and her enemies. And this is something I discussed in The End of Faith. To see this moral difference, you have to ask what each side would do if they had the power to do it.

What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could do anything they wanted? Well, we know the answer to that question, because they can do more or less anything they want. The Israeli army could kill everyone in Gaza tomorrow. So what does that mean? Well, it means that, when they drop a bomb on a beach and kill four Palestinian children, as happened last week, this is almost certainly an accident. They’re not targeting children. They could target as many children as they want. Every time a Palestinian child dies, Israel edges ever closer to becoming an international pariah. So the Israelis take great pains not to kill children and other noncombatants.  [Note: The word “so” in the previous sentence was regrettable and misleading. I didn’t mean to suggest that safeguarding its reputation abroad would be the only (or even primary) reason for Israel to avoid killing children. However, the point stands: Even if you want to attribute the basest motives to Israel, it is clearly in her self-interest not to kill Palestinian children.]

Now, is it possible that some Israeli soldiers go berserk under pressure and wind up shooting into crowds of rock-throwing children? Of course. You will always find some soldiers acting this way in the middle of a war. But we know that this isn’t the general intent of Israel. We know the Israelis do not want to kill non-combatants, because they could kill as many as they want, and they’re not doing it.

What do we know of the Palestinians? What would the Palestinians do to the Jews in Israel if the power imbalance were reversed? Well, they have told us what they would do. For some reason, Israel’s critics just don’t want to believe the worst about a group like Hamas, even when it declares the worst of itself. We’ve already had a Holocaust and several other genocides in the 20th century. People are capable of committing genocide. When they tell us they intend to commit genocide, we should listen. There is every reason to believe that the Palestinians would kill all the Jews in Israel if they could. Would every Palestinian support genocide? Of course not. But vast numbers of them—and of Muslims throughout the world—would. Needless to say, the Palestinians in general, not just Hamas, have a history of targeting innocent noncombatants in the most shocking ways possible. They’ve blown themselves up on buses and in restaurants. They’ve massacred teenagers. They’ve murdered Olympic athletes. They now shoot rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas. And again, the charter of their government in Gaza explicitly tells us that they want to annihilate the Jews—not just in Israel but everywhere. [Note: Again, I realize that not all Palestinians support Hamas. Nor am I discounting the degree to which the occupation, along with collateral damage suffered in war, has fueled Palestinian rage. But Palestinian terrorism (and Muslim anti-Semitism) is what has made peaceful coexistence thus far impossible.]

The truth is that everything you need to know about the moral imbalance between Israel and her enemies can be understood on the topic of human shields. Who uses human shields? Well, Hamas certainly does. They shoot their rockets from residential neighborhoods, from beside schools, and hospitals, and mosques. Muslims in other recent conflicts, in Iraq and elsewhere, have also used human shields. They have laid their rifles on the shoulders of their own children and shot from behind their bodies.

Consider the moral difference between using human shields and being deterred by them. That is the difference we’re talking about. The Israelis and other Western powers are deterred, however imperfectly, by the Muslim use of human shields in these conflicts, as we should be. It is morally abhorrent to kill noncombatants if you can avoid it. It’s certainly abhorrent to shoot through the bodies of children to get at your adversary. But take a moment to reflect on how contemptible this behavior is. And understand how cynical it is. The Muslims are acting on the assumption—the knowledge, in fact—that the infidels with whom they fight, the very people whom their religion does nothing but vilify, will be deterred by their use of Muslim human shields. They consider the Jews the spawn of apes and pigs—and yet they rely on the fact that they don’t want to kill Muslim noncombatants. [Note: The term “Muslims” in this paragraph means “Muslim combatants” of the sort that Western forces have encountered in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. The term “jihadists” would have been too narrow, but I was not suggesting that all Muslims support the use of human shields or are anti-Semitic, at war with the West, etc.]

Now imagine reversing the roles here. Imagine how fatuous—indeed comical it would be—for the Israelis to attempt to use human shields to deter the Palestinians. Some claim that they have already done this. There are reports that Israeli soldiers have occasionally put Palestinian civilians in front of them as they’ve advanced into dangerous areas. That’s not the use of human shields we’re talking about. It’s egregious behavior. No doubt it constitutes a war crime. But Imagine the Israelis holding up their own women and children as human shields. Of course, that would be ridiculous. The Palestinians are trying to kill everyone. Killing women and children is part of the plan. Reversing the roles here produces a grotesque Monty Python skit.

If you’re going to talk about the conflict in the Middle East, you have to acknowledge this difference. I don’t think there’s any ethical disparity to be found anywhere that is more shocking or consequential than this.

And the truth is, this isn’t even the worst that jihadists do. Hamas is practically a moderate organization, compared to other jihadist groups. There are Muslims who have blown themselves up in crowds of children—again, Muslim children—just to get at the American soldiers who were handing out candy to them. They have committed suicide bombings, only to send another bomber to the hospital to await the casualities—where they then blow up all the injured along with the doctors and nurses trying to save their lives.

Every day that you could read about an Israeli rocket gone astray or Israeli soldiers beating up an innocent teenager, you could have read about ISIS in Iraq crucifying people on the side of the road, Christians and Muslims. Where is the outrage in the Muslim world and on the Left over these crimes? Where are the demonstrations, 10,000 or 100,000 deep, in the capitals of Europe against ISIS?  If Israel kills a dozen Palestinians by accident, the entire Muslim world is inflamed. God forbid you burn a Koran, or write a novel vaguely critical of the faith. And yet Muslims can destroy their own societies—and seek to destroy the West—and you don’t hear a peep. [Note: Of course, I’m aware that many Muslims condemn groups like ISIS. My point is that we don’t see massive protests against global jihadism—even though it targets Muslims more than anyone else—and we do see such protests over things like the Danish cartoons.]

So, it seems to me, that you have to side with Israel here. You have one side which if it really could accomplish its aims would simply live peacefully with its neighbors, and you have another side which is seeking to implement a seventh century theocracy in the Holy Land. There’s no peace to be found between those incompatible ideas.  That doesn’t mean you can’t condemn specific actions on the part of the Israelis. And, of course, acknowledging the moral disparity between Israel and her enemies doesn’t give us any solution to the problem of Israel’s existence in the Middle East. [Note: I was not suggesting that Israel’s actions are above criticism or that their recent incursion into Gaza was necessarily justified. Nor was I saying that the status quo, wherein the Palestinians remain stateless, should be maintained. And I certainly wasn’t expressing support for the building of settlements on contested land (as I made clear below). By “siding with Israel,” I am simply recognizing that they are not the primary aggressors in this conflict. They are, rather, responding to aggression—and at a terrible cost.] 

Again, granted, there’s some percentage of Jews who are animated by their own religious hysteria and their own prophesies. Some are awaiting the Messiah on contested land. Yes, these people are willing to sacrifice the blood of their own children for the glory of God. But, for the most part, they are not representative of the current state of Judaism or the actions of the Israeli government. And it is how Israel deals with these people—their own religious lunatics—that will determine whether they can truly hold the moral high ground. And Israel can do a lot more than it has to disempower them. It can cease to subsidize the delusions of the Ultra-Orthodox, and it can stop building settlements on contested land.  [Note: Read that again. And, yes, I understand that not all settlers are Ultra-Orthodox.]

These incompatible religious attachments to this land have made it impossible for Muslims and Jews to negotiate like rational human beings, and they have made it impossible for them to live in peace. But the onus is still more on the side of the Muslims here. Even on their worst day, the Israelis act with greater care and compassion and self-criticism than Muslim combatants have anywhere, ever.

And again, you have to ask yourself, what do these groups want? What would they accomplish if they could accomplish anything? What would the Israelis do if they could do what they want? They would live in peace with their neighbors, if they had neighbors who would live in peace with them. They would simply continue to build out their high tech sector and thrive. [Note: Some might argue that they would do more than this—e.g. steal more Palestinian land. But apart from the influence of Jewish extremism (which I condemn), Israel’s continued appropriation of land has more than a little to do with her security concerns. Absent Palestinian terrorism and Muslim anti-Semitism, we could be talking about a “one-state solution,” and the settlements would be moot.]

What do groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and even Hamas want? They want to impose their religious views on the rest of humanity. They want stifle every freedom that decent, educated, secular people care about. This is not a trivial difference. And yet judging from the level of condemnation that Israel now receives, you would think the difference ran the other way.

This kind of confusion puts all of us in danger. This is the great story of our time. For the rest of our lives, and the lives of our children, we are going to be confronted by people who don’t want to live peacefully in a secular, pluralistic world, because they are desperate to get to Paradise, and they are willing to destroy the very possibility of human happiness along the way. The truth is, we are all living in Israel. It’s just that some of us haven’t realized it yet.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel

Podcast - https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/why-dont-i-criticize-israel
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noc

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #145 on: July 30, 2014, 06:56:58 AM »
They are better of dead.

And this is where everyone should stop engaging this cunt of a 'human' - hope you have no children.

orion

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #146 on: July 30, 2014, 08:03:15 AM »
What a load of absolute rubbish.  First of, Palestine isn't an occupied territory.  Let's say the indigenous population of my country decided they could start terrorizing the population based on some wild claim we are occupying their land.  Do you think we are going to stand for it, do you think we are going to clothe, house, cure these people?  No we are going to crush the absolute shit out of them like they deserve.  

The Nazis didn't do what israel did, without provocation they forced the JEWS into concentration camps and eventually killed them en masse, one can only hope israel will eventually do this to the Palestinians, as it is probably the best solution.    
 
And WTF? If the blockade end all this nonsense ends.  You must be the most naive person on the planet to think that.  HAMAS has a charter to wipe out the JEWS, Palestine has constantly rejected GOOD deals in favor of pursuing their final solution, to eradicate all JEWS from the planet.  Let's see who last tried to do that, oh that's right, it was HITLER.

And if need to ask "WHY the blockade?", then you're an idiot.  Only a fool would help his enemy amass enough power to carry out the threat of the total annihilation of his entire race.  The whole things ends when Muslims stop terrorising the whole world to meet their ridiculous demands with the support of Western Libtards everywhere.

I don't know who we should build Gulags for first, the Palestinians or the crazy libtards that support them.

Imagine the Israelis actually decide to commit genocide on the Palestinian people, it would make their current actions look like they are throwing a tea party for Palestine.  Personally, I hope they do, the attempted genocide of the jews by Hitler was seen as an unprovoked act.  No decent, reasonable human being could blame Israel for wiping out the palestinian people.  They have tolerated over half a century of terrorism and their attempted extermination.  I say the time is right to end this thing once and for all.

Okay I take it your Jewish, well that explains your one sided view.  By the way I hate Muslims just as much as the next guy, with their stupid laws against women and praying every five times a day,  Allah this, allah that, give me a break, but when you bomb schools and hospitals you've lost all credibility

Israel controls all roads into Gaza, they control the airspace, they control the water around it. they control what goes in and what goes out.  When one country does this to another, you are in fact occupied.  Sorry your advanced intelligence cant grasp that concept.

And what are these great terms that Israel is offering Hamas?  Does any of them involve allowing free movement of goods?  No, that would mean ending the blockade.

Yeah I call a spade a spade, don't care if it offends you, if that makes me a liberal then I guess I'm a liberal,  Haha, conservatives on a bodybuilding site, Give me a fucken break! Excuse me but I've got to get my test levels up for a squat workout.

Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #147 on: July 30, 2014, 09:00:50 AM »
but when you launch rocket attacks from schools and hospitals you've lost all credibility


Fixed. 

Only a fool would think it prudent to help your enemy destroy you.  That's why Israel controls gaza.  When the Palestinians prove themselves and stop the terrorist attacks and show some initiative towards being a civilised society and lose the terrorist governance, then they might earn the right to be self determined.  Until that time they are simply terrorists,who in my opinion should be eliminated once and for all.
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Radical Plato

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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #148 on: July 30, 2014, 09:02:30 AM »
And this is where everyone should stop engaging this cunt of a 'human' - hope you have no children.
Says the man who prefers children to be trained to be terrorists, to hate, to be used as human shields.  UUggh, what a disgusting human being, what type of sick fuck wants that for a child.
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Re: What's the difference between the US and Israel? There is none.
« Reply #149 on: July 30, 2014, 09:04:20 AM »
Fixed.  

Only a fool would think it prudent to help your enemy destroy you.  That's why Israel controls gaza.  When the Palestinians prove themselves and stop the terrorist attacks and show some initiative towards being a civilised society and lose the terrorist governance, then they might earn the right to be self determined.  Until that time they are simply terrorists,who in my opinion should be eliminated once and for all.

Some would say that everyone has an inherent right to govern themselves no matter what, just as long as they don't hurt you.

Now granted, I don't know what would happen should there become a palestinian state, but then, no one knew what would happen before there became a Jewish state in Israel.

Now we know.