Ronald on Immigration

[RRKore]

I'm saying it because it's true, as anyone with an ounce of common sense and real world experience will tell you.  John Matrix tried to explain it to you. 

It's not the number of immigrants you see.  That's just you being you (making stuff up).  It's the sheer number of illegal aliens, the people who live in border towns who experience it, the change in policy by the administration, etc.  You should talk to people like JM (as I have) and you get a better understanding of what is happening in the country.

Okey-dokey.  You aren't addressing much of anything I wrote. 

Not surprising from the guy who illuminatingly writes, "Who the heck cares what someone else says?"

[Option D]

People disagree with you, so you pick up your bat and ball and go home?  Weak.
You started this thread with a clip that didn't support some veiled claim that Reagan supported amnesty. 

No...we know he supported amnesty...ITs a fact...like a stone cold fact
My issue is we say Obama is bad and Reagan is good for "these" reasons...
But He and Obama did the same things on a lot of those issues. One is called by the right the worst and the other is called the best.
I despise inconsistent arguments. Those suck.. As do disingenuous ones....and why even get involved if we have our ears and eyes cut off to that which doesn’t fall in line with our predetermined thought pattern. I’m not going to play the semantics game with anyone here. It’s a waste of time. I will continue to only deal in facts. Not "he lacks leadership" horse shit arguments....Facts and numbers.

[JOHN MATRIX]

Melting pot, mang.  Sounds like you're just impatient but we're all entitled to our own opinions.  

Also, like I alluded to earlier, their are concrete economic reasons for not wanting open borders that supersede all the cultural concerns (in my mind, anyway).

TBH, some of their culture's ways are likely superior to ours, anyway.  For instance, when it comes to tight family bonds and taking care of their elderly, I think Mexican culture is much better.

'Melting pot' is exactly my point...its not happening with them anymore.

We arent assimilating them....they are assimilating us.

[Dos Equis]

Simpson-Mazoli Act

What about it?

[Dos Equis]

No...we know he supported amnesty...ITs a fact...like a stone cold fact
My issue is we say Obama is bad and Reagan is good for "these" reasons...
But He and Obama did the same things on a lot of those issues. One is called by the right the worst and the other is called the best.
I despise inconsistent arguments. Those suck.. As do disingenuous ones....and why even get involved if we have our ears and eyes cut off to that which doesn’t fall in line with our predetermined thought pattern. I’m not going to play the semantics game with anyone here. It’s a waste of time. I will continue to only deal in facts. Not "he lacks leadership" horse shit arguments....Facts and numbers.

You are comparing an act of Congress with unilateral action by the president.  Apples and oranges.

[Soul Crusher]

No...we know he supported amnesty...ITs a fact...like a stone cold fact
My issue is we say Obama is bad and Reagan is good for "these" reasons...
But He and Obama did the same things on a lot of those issues. One is called by the right the worst and the other is called the best.
I despise inconsistent arguments. Those suck.. As do disingenuous ones....and why even get involved if we have our ears and eyes cut off to that which doesn’t fall in line with our predetermined thought pattern. I’m not going to play the semantics game with anyone here. It’s a waste of time. I will continue to only deal in facts. Not "he lacks leadership" horse shit arguments....Facts and numbers.

Reagan said signing Simpson Mazzoli was one of his biggest errors of his presidency

[RRKore]

'Melting pot' is exactly my point...its not happening with them anymore.

We arent assimilating them....they are assimilating us.

How?  Just because Mexican food is delicious?

I think it just takes time.  Especially when their population is so big.

Don't worry, though.  Our (lack of) culture will suck them in eventually.  

They'll be turned into mindless American Idol-watching consumers sooner or later.

[JOHN MATRIX]

How?  Just because Mexican food is delicious?

I think it just takes time.  Especially when their population is so big.

Don't worry, though.  Our (lack of) culture will suck them in eventually.  

They'll be turned into mindless American Idol-watching consumers sooner or later.

You are being incredibly naive...not sure u understand the magnitude of what is taking place. It is completely different and on a whole different scale that past immigration waves (which were all followed by long periods of halted immigration to allow for assimilation)

[Option D]

What about it?

It was an amnesty bill..no?

[Option D]

You are comparing an act of Congress with unilateral action by the president.  Apples and oranges.

wait... what unilateral action by president?

[Dos Equis]

It was an amnesty bill..no?

Yes it was. 

[Soul Crusher]

It was an amnesty bill..no?

There was coupled with it many promises of border enforcement , etc that were supposed to go along with it than never happened

[RRKore]

You are being incredibly naive...not sure u understand the magnitude of what is taking place. It is completely different and on a whole different scale that past immigration waves (which were all followed by long periods of halted immigration to allow for assimilation)

You could be right (about me being naive) and it could be a cause for a concern even if it doesn't seem like much than xenophobia to me right now.  As a guy who's studied Russian and German and is trying to learn Thai in a half-ass way (due to having Thai inlaws)-- I'm much more interested than I am threatened by people from cultures other than my own.

Re: the scale being much greater now than it was with past waves of immigration, is that in just in terms of numbers or also in terms of % of our population? 

[Primemuscle]

So...what you're saying is that Obama has fucked this country up so badly that even the dirtiest, poorest Mexican doesn't want to move here?

No, Bush or maybe Clinton did. The low point for immigration was right after the economy crashed in 2008. Obama wasn't in office long enough to have caused that crisis.

[RRKore]

No, Bush or maybe Clinton did. The low point for immigration was right after the economy crashed in 2008. Obama wasn't in office long enough to have caused that crisis.

This makes sense to me.  Annual immigration went down when prospects for paying jobs went down.

[Soul Crusher]

This makes sense to me.  Annual immigration went down when prospects for paying jobs went down.

So Obama's failed economy has kept it down?

[Dos Equis]

wait... what unilateral action by president?

Failing to prosecute illegal aliens, in violation of his Constitutional mandate to enforce the law.  Dismissing deportation cases. Running advertisements encouraging illegals to use government services.  Refusing to crack down on sanctuary cities. Implementing the Dream Act via executive order.

[RRKore]

So Obama's failed economy has kept it down?

I guess you could say that (though of course some will quibble about Obama being responsible for the economy).

Honestly, what's going on in the USA is only half the story.  

How bad shit is (with regard to economics and security) in immigrants' native countries is the other half.

[Primemuscle]

So Obama's failed economy has kept it down?

The economy is recovering and immigration is on the rise as would be expected.

[Primemuscle]

I guess you could say that (though of course some will quibble about Obama being responsible for the economy).

Honestly, what's going on in the USA is only half the story.  

How bad shit is (with regard to economics and security) in immigrants' native countries is the other half.

You're right about this. People immigrate or move because they are looking for a better life.

[JOHN MATRIX]

You could be right (about me being naive) and it could be a cause for a concern even if it doesn't seem like much than xenophobia to me right now.  As a guy who's studied Russian and German and is trying to learn Thai in a half-ass way (due to having Thai inlaws)-- I'm much more interested than I am threatened by people from cultures other than my own.

Re: the scale being much greater now than it was with past waves of immigration, is that in just in terms of numbers or also in terms of % of our population?  

Im not xenophibic at all! I love learning about and experiencing different cultures and the world.

There are several key reasons why the current immigration wave is different than previous ones, and all the factors compound each other; first the current mass wave has been going continuously for decades, with no immigration moratoriums at all to allow for assimilation, as was done in the past. They just keep pouring in endlessly, in unprecedently huge numbers (30-40million in the last 20 or so years?)

Second, for most of american history the immigrants came legally, AND WERE PROCESSED. We knew more or less who was coming in, and they were checked for diseases. Now, we have no idea who is coming in, whether they are criminals or not, or what they are bringing with them, healthwise or weapons wise. Millions of people just cross our borders and disappear into our communities.

Third, previously there was no welfare state, safety net, or special treatment at all. Immigrants had to assimilate into society, and sink or swim on their own. Those who made it stayed, and those who didnt were not supported in perpetuity by society-they went back home. Nowdays, they come FOR the freebies and special treatment; all they have to do is get here, and they know the taxpayers will provide for all their needs. This is a drastically different motivation for coming and does not facilitate becoming productive members of society nor does it facilitate assimilation.

Lastly, a critical and little known fact is that prior to the 1964, 90% of immigrants were europeans, people with similar cultures and ideologies. Since 1964, 90% of our immigrants have come from the third world. Our core european population, which founded and built this nation and turned it into a place where everyone on earth wants to come, is declining, and being replaced by immigrants and cultures who have come from failed nations...its not hard to see where this will lead.

[RRKore]

Im not xenophibic at all! I love learning about and experiencing different cultures and the world.

There are several key reasons why the current immigration wave is different than previous ones, and all the factors compound each other; first the current mass wave has been going continuously for decades, with no immigration moratoriums at all to allow for assimilation, as was done in the past. They just keep pouring in endlessly, in unprecedently huge numbers (30-40million in the last 20 or so years?)

Second, for most of american history the immigrants came legally, AND WERE PROCESSED. We knew more or less who was coming in, and they were checked for diseases. Now, we have no idea who is coming in, whether they are criminals or not, or what they are bringing with them, healthwise or weapons wise. Millions of people just cross our borders and disappear into our communities.

Third, previously there was no welfare state, safety net, or special treatment at all. Immigrants had to assimilate into society, and sink or swim on their own. Those who made it stayed, and those who didnt were not supported in perpetuity by society-they went back home. Nowdays, they come FOR the freebies and special treatment; all they have to do is get here, and they know the taxpayers will provide for all their needs. This is a drastically different motivation for coming and does not facilitate becoming productive members of society nor does it facilitate assimilation.

Lastly, a critical and little known fact is that prior to the 1964, 90% of immigrants were europeans, people with similar cultures and ideologies. Since 1964, 90% of our immigrants have come from the third world. Our core european population, which founded and built this nation and turned it into a place where everyone on earth wants to come, is declining, and being replaced by immigrants and cultures who have come from failed nations...its not hard to see where this will lead.

My evaluation of your nice lengthy post.

1st paragraph:  Good.  Me, too.

2nd paragraph:  Pretty good.  I think it makes sense that the bigger the population of immigrants, the more resistant to assimilation they'll be.

3rd paragraph:  Everyone needs to be tracked?  WTF?  If you're in favor of strong gun control laws, then I'll buy this argument from ya.  Otherwise, this is weak.  The immigration system is fucked up.  Anyone who's had any dealings with USCIS knows this.  

4th paragraph:  Pretty decent.  Speaks to economic difficulties when number of immigrants is too big.

5th and last paragraph:  Complete poop.  Holy shit, did you get this argument from Stormfront?  This is some utter freakin' racist bullshit.  Oh, your people come from a failed nation so obviously you'll never amount to anything?  What kind of old-fashioned bell curve nonsense is this?  Also, does your 90% of pre-1964 immigrants include the unwilling ones?  Africa is not Europe.  And what even constitutes a non-failed state in your mind?  Like, how about all our immigrants from Asia?  Asia isn't in Europe but aren't post 1964 immigrants from many countries in Asia (including India) doing pretty well?  You undercut all your other arguments with this one.