Ferguson - Rioting for Michael Brown - Discussion

[LittleJ]

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Two police officers were shot by unknown assailants during protests in Ferguson, Missouri on Wednesday night. Protesters gathered across the street from Ferguson police headquarters just hours after Chief Tom Jackson resigned. Shots rang out from the vicinity of the crowd, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. According to the head of the St. Louis County police, a 41-year-old officer from St. Louis County was shot in the shoulder and a 32-year-old officer from Webster Groves was shot in the face. Both were taken to a hospital and are expected to survive. “These police officers were standing there and they were shot, just because they were police officers,” St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said. “I don’t know who did the shooting to be honest with you right now, but somehow they were embedded in that group of folks.”

lol

[Archer77]

Liberals on television saying the police need to "reach out more to The Ferguson Community"

Won't make a bit of difference.

[Archer77]

Ok fine the report is bogus and in fact the data indicate the opposite conclusions.  Everyone is wrong including the DOJ, legal experts, the missouri supreme court. The racist emails from high ranking officials are simply observations of fact (haha). The thousands of protesters that live there are just making it all up.

I suggest you report these findings to the appropriate authorities before things get out of hand!

 

Yes, the report is bogus and politically motivated. Ferguson is prety consistent with other areas. Three questionable email don't indicate systematic bias.  They were included in the report to incite simple minded easily offended individuals who cant grasp the numbers.

[BB]

Won't make a bit of difference.

Exactly, they'll see it as a sign of weakness. The only people giving a fuck about Ferguson anymore are busy bodies and cretins, huge mistake to throw them a bone.

[bigmc]

to be honest, police in just abuot EVERY community need to REACH OUT more to people.

WHen we were kids, the police made eye contact and knew what was going on places.  These days?  just like every other zombie out there, police have their faces buried in laptops and iphones while driving around with windows up.   I've seen people make outrageously dangerous driving moves, and the cop in front of me missed it, because he was texting or whatever. 

In SW FL, after the recent police shootings, the department had 'breakfast with police" and some gift things, mostly just LISTENING to people for hours at a time.  VERY good thing.  These days, cops usually act like any interaction with civilians in an inconvenience for them.  Most of us don't truly believe cops give a shit about us, they just want to stay outta trouble, do their hours and get home.  So OUTREACH is a very good thing, and that's just in peaceful communties.  In places where there's been rioting, then yes, reaching out to the community is a very good idea.

Granted, I think they should firehose those idiots rioting. I have no love for them.  But yes, the dept should stop acting like they're military and sit down at coffee shops every day and talk to people. 

maybe if civilians were polite and respectful


the police might talk to them more

ive been there every fucker tells you how to do you job

every fucker speaks to you like your dirt

soceity gets the police force it deserves as its taken from society

think about that sparkles

[Archer77]

Exactly, they'll see it as a sign of weakness. The only people giving a fuck about Ferguson anymore are busy bodies and cretins, huge mistake to throw them a bone.

They are trying to put all the responsibility on the police.  It's the police departments responsibility to reach out to the community.  The community is never called on to be responsible for their own behavior.   The "community" will only continue to engage in the same behavior that causes them to run afoul of the law.  All the white tax payers that remain will leave and die off, more black cops will be hired and Ferguson will slip further and further into Detroit-land.  It's all inevitable because it's happened before.

maybe if civilians were polite and respectful


the police might talk to them more

ive been there every fucker tells you how to do you job

every fucker speaks to you like your dirt

soceity gets the police force it deserves as its taken from society

think about that sparkles

QFT

[mr.turbo]

Yes, the report is bogus and politically motivated. Ferguson is prety consistent with other areas. Three questionable email don't indicate systematic bias.  They were included in the report to incite simple minded easily offended individuals who cant grasp the numbers.

yes I'm not disputing these findings. 

clearly this is a very serious error are you going to report it to anyone?

[Archer77]

yes I'm not disputing these findings.  

clearly this is a very serious error are you going to report it to anyone?

I'm sure they already know but much like you it doesn't fit their narrative to look at the report critically.

[mr.turbo]

I'm sure they already know but much like you it doesn't fit their narrative to look at the report critically.

"they" who?  Two cops got shot yesterday.

I suggest you report this to the FBI before anyone else gets hurt.

[Archer77]

"they" who?  Two cops got shot yesterday.

I suggest you report this to the FBI before anyone else gets hurt.

I suggest you read the report and compare the numbers to other local and state police department numbers.  Then take those numbers and compare them to other states and finally to national statistics. I know that is a lot of work but it's worth it.  But it's much easier than putting aside the narrative and your personal feelings towards the issue.

[NarcissisticDeity]

http://nypost.com/2015/03/09/ferguson-fake-out-justice-departments-bogus-report/

Ferguson fake-out: Justice Department’s bogus report


Addressing the nation from Selma, Ala., on Saturday, President Obama said that while racism may be “no longer endemic,” as it was 50 years ago, his Justice Department’s report on Ferguson shows that the “nation’s racial history still casts its long shadow upon us.”
Sorry: The Justice report doesn’t prove disparate treatment, let alone discrimination.
In fact, it looks more like something ginned up to distract from the embarrassing fact that Justice (in another report released the same day) wound up fully validating the findings of the Ferguson grand jury.
Racism is serious, and those engaging in it should be shamed — but we should have real evidence before accusing others of it. And every one of the Justice report’s main claims of evidence of discrimination falls short.
Starting with the primary numerical claim. The report notes on Page 4: “Ferguson’s law-enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African-Americans.
“Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African-Americans account for 85 percent of vehicle stops, 90 percent of citations, and 93 percent of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67 percent of Ferguson’s population.”
Those statistics don’t prove racism, because blacks don’t commit traffic offenses at the same rate as other population groups.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 2011 Police-Public Contact Survey indicates that, nationwide, blacks were 31 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over for a traffic stop.
Ferguson is a black-majority town. If its blacks were pulled over at the same rate as blacks nationally, they’d account for 87.5 percent of traffic stops.
In other words, the numbers actually suggest that Ferguson police may be slightly less likely to pull over black drivers than are their national counterparts. They certainly don’t show that Ferguson is a hotbed of racism.
Critics may assert that that “31 percent more likely” figure simply shows that racism is endemic to police forces nationwide.
Hmm: The survey also reveals that men are 42 percent more likely than women to be pulled over for traffic stops. Should we conclude that police are biased against men, or that men drive more recklessly?
In fact, blacks die in car accidents at a rate about twice their share of car owners.
A 2006 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study found that black drivers who were killed in accidents have the highest rate of past convictions for speeding and for other moving violations. This suggests that there are a lot of unsafe black drivers, not racism.
The Justice report on Ferguson continues, “African-Americans are at least 50 percent more likely to have their cases lead to an arrest warrant, and accounted for 92 percent of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued by the Ferguson Municipal Court in 2013.”
Again, this pretends that a mere difference is evidence of discrimination.
But the report’s statistic doesn’t even look at whether people pay their fine or appear in court — something that makes a big difference in whether to issue a warrant.
Could it be that blacks are more likely to face particularly serious charges?
Since Justice has gone through the case files, it could easily have answered the questions. Perhaps it didn’t like the answers. (Unfortunately, no national data are available for comparison.)
Another major complaint in the Justice report: “Most strikingly, the court issues municipal arrest warrants not on the basis of public-safety needs, but rather as a routine response to missed court appearances and required fine payments.”
If you think that this is unique to Ferguson, try not paying your next speeding ticket.
As for the anecdotal evidence Justice offers to bring home this complaint, well, here’s an anecdote from Washington, DC — a town with a black mayor and black-majority city council.
Megan Johnson, a black DC woman, recently failed to pay 10 parking tickets within the allotted 30 days. The city doubled her fines from $500 to $1,000, then booted, towed and sold her car — and charged her $700 for towing and impounding it.
DC sold the car at auction for $500 and won’t even credit that amount to what she owes. It’s now attaching her tax refunds.
Justice’s Ferguson anecdotes no more prove racism than Megan Johnson’s experience proves the DC government is racist.
Finally, for “direct evidence of racial bias,” the report describes seven emails from Ferguson police officers from 2008 to 2011 that Justice describes as offensive to blacks, women, Muslims, President Obama and his wife, and possibly people of mixed race.
But this begs some big questions: Did only one or two of the 53 officers send the emails? Did the objectionable emails end in 2011 because those officers no longer worked for the department or were told to stop?
The Justice Department’s report reads as a prosecutor’s brief, not an unbiased attempt to get at the truth, with evidence carefully selected and portrayed in the strongest possible light.
Differences don’t necessarily imply racism, but the Obama Justice Department doesn’t seem to care.
John R. Lott is the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and a former chief economist for the United States Sentencing Commission.

[Archer77]

http://nypost.com/2015/03/09/ferguson-fake-out-justice-departments-bogus-report/

Ferguson fake-out: Justice Department’s bogus report


Addressing the nation from Selma, Ala., on Saturday, President Obama said that while racism may be “no longer endemic,” as it was 50 years ago, his Justice Department’s report on Ferguson shows that the “nation’s racial history still casts its long shadow upon us.”
Sorry: The Justice report doesn’t prove disparate treatment, let alone discrimination.
In fact, it looks more like something ginned up to distract from the embarrassing fact that Justice (in another report released the same day) wound up fully validating the findings of the Ferguson grand jury.
Racism is serious, and those engaging in it should be shamed — but we should have real evidence before accusing others of it. And every one of the Justice report’s main claims of evidence of discrimination falls short.
Starting with the primary numerical claim. The report notes on Page 4: “Ferguson’s law-enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African-Americans.
“Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African-Americans account for 85 percent of vehicle stops, 90 percent of citations, and 93 percent of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67 percent of Ferguson’s population.”
Those statistics don’t prove racism, because blacks don’t commit traffic offenses at the same rate as other population groups.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 2011 Police-Public Contact Survey indicates that, nationwide, blacks were 31 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over for a traffic stop.
Ferguson is a black-majority town. If its blacks were pulled over at the same rate as blacks nationally, they’d account for 87.5 percent of traffic stops.
In other words, the numbers actually suggest that Ferguson police may be slightly less likely to pull over black drivers than are their national counterparts. They certainly don’t show that Ferguson is a hotbed of racism.
Critics may assert that that “31 percent more likely” figure simply shows that racism is endemic to police forces nationwide.
Hmm: The survey also reveals that men are 42 percent more likely than women to be pulled over for traffic stops. Should we conclude that police are biased against men, or that men drive more recklessly?
In fact, blacks die in car accidents at a rate about twice their share of car owners.
A 2006 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study found that black drivers who were killed in accidents have the highest rate of past convictions for speeding and for other moving violations. This suggests that there are a lot of unsafe black drivers, not racism.
The Justice report on Ferguson continues, “African-Americans are at least 50 percent more likely to have their cases lead to an arrest warrant, and accounted for 92 percent of cases in which an arrest warrant was issued by the Ferguson Municipal Court in 2013.”
Again, this pretends that a mere difference is evidence of discrimination.
But the report’s statistic doesn’t even look at whether people pay their fine or appear in court — something that makes a big difference in whether to issue a warrant.
Could it be that blacks are more likely to face particularly serious charges?
Since Justice has gone through the case files, it could easily have answered the questions. Perhaps it didn’t like the answers. (Unfortunately, no national data are available for comparison.)
Another major complaint in the Justice report: “Most strikingly, the court issues municipal arrest warrants not on the basis of public-safety needs, but rather as a routine response to missed court appearances and required fine payments.”
If you think that this is unique to Ferguson, try not paying your next speeding ticket.
As for the anecdotal evidence Justice offers to bring home this complaint, well, here’s an anecdote from Washington, DC — a town with a black mayor and black-majority city council.
Megan Johnson, a black DC woman, recently failed to pay 10 parking tickets within the allotted 30 days. The city doubled her fines from $500 to $1,000, then booted, towed and sold her car — and charged her $700 for towing and impounding it.
DC sold the car at auction for $500 and won’t even credit that amount to what she owes. It’s now attaching her tax refunds.
Justice’s Ferguson anecdotes no more prove racism than Megan Johnson’s experience proves the DC government is racist.
Finally, for “direct evidence of racial bias,” the report describes seven emails from Ferguson police officers from 2008 to 2011 that Justice describes as offensive to blacks, women, Muslims, President Obama and his wife, and possibly people of mixed race.
But this begs some big questions: Did only one or two of the 53 officers send the emails? Did the objectionable emails end in 2011 because those officers no longer worked for the department or were told to stop?
The Justice Department’s report reads as a prosecutor’s brief, not an unbiased attempt to get at the truth, with evidence carefully selected and portrayed in the strongest possible light.
Differences don’t necessarily imply racism, but the Obama Justice Department doesn’t seem to care.
John R. Lott is the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and a former chief economist for the United States Sentencing Commission.

Great post. This is consistent with the graphs I posted.  Facts be damned.   People are hell bent on playing the victim and destroying shit.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Great post. This is consistent with the graphs I posted.  Facts be damned.   People are hell bent on playing the victim and destroying shit.

Exactly.

[LittleJ]

Make those pigs squeal.

[240 is Back]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

[Schnauzer]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

How many feet away from you were they at the time of the alleged laughing?

[Archer77]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

Were you wearing your swat vest and your hat backwards?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Were you wearing your swat vest and your hat backwards?

 

[Archer77]

  I forgot he also wasn't wearing a shirt

[polychronopolous]

Rob, how many times have you worn that vest under your shirt/jacket before heading into town to buy a gallon of milk or whatever?

Don't lie.

[Agnostic007]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

Small thing right? Yet years later this still sticks with you. One of the shortfalls we as police have is forgetting that while we make dozens of contacts with citizens per day, sometimes the citizen rarely has contact with the police and it is SO important that officers make that contact as positive as possible just because of things like that. For whatever reasons these officers thought what happened was funny. Maybe it was a private joke between them and you just happened to fit the mold but a little thing like "Hey buddy, you need us to call someone?" would have turned what obviously was a negative for you, into a positive. No doubt police are our own worst enemy and we shoot ourselves in the foot often times because we don't remember empathy or what we think is mundane may be important to the citizen. Sorry for your experience   

[LittleJ]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

I had a similar situation when I was young and needed help with my vehicle. Two officers pull up next to me and looked at me for about 20-30 seconds and kept driving.

[Parker]

Probably 4 or 5 years back, I broke down.  Overheated at 2am coming home from a show.  Coasted into a gas station, radiator issue.

and these 2 cops rolled in... one pointed, they both started laughing at me.  These 2 little early 20s, 150-pound cops, mocking a citizen who barely made it into a parking lot. 

I mean, not only did they not say "everyone okay?" or just ignore, but they took the time to have a laugh.  Terrible outreach there.  I got antifreeze, cooled off, limped home and fixed hose later.  But I'll remember those 2. 

Were you driving a hoopty? Or did you tell them that you post on Getbig and managed to make a pro bodybuilder meltdown?
Were they friends of King Kamali?

[Soul Crusher]

I had a similar situation when I was young and needed help with my vehicle. Two officers pull up next to me and looked at me for about 20-30 seconds and kept driving.

So would a black taxi driver, a black EMT, a black firefighter, a black deacon, a black nurse, a black nun, a black AAA truck, etc.

You think anyone wants to get robbed and looted by you?  

         

[LittleJ]

So would a black taxi driver, a black EMT, a black firefighter, a black deacon, a black nurse, a black nun, a black AAA truck, etc.

You think anyone wants to get robbed and looted by you?  

         

Police are suppose to protect and serve, right? Seriously I was 16 and about 155lbs. These cops was twice my size.They left me standing there in a rough part of town near the projects. It just so happen a group of "African Americans" (thugs as you call them) help me get my car started.