DOJ (Eric Holder) urged Ferguson Police not to release Brown robbery tape

[Archer77]

I think that releasing the tape in question was stupid, especially if you are going to do it at the same time as you say "the Officer who shot him didn't know about this and didn't pull him over for this." You simply have nothing to gain from releasing the tape at this point in time and, really, everything to lose: The rioters will perceive it as an attempt to deflect responsibility (or even fabricate evidence) to make the actions of the Officer involved seem reasonable, making them more upset and make an already volatile situation even more so.

Questions about the shooting aside, the plain and simple fact is that Ferguson police horribly mismanaged this whole thing from the beginning, and their inept handling has greatly escalated this situation.

If one good thing comes out of this, it's that we can all see how poorly idiotic cops handle these situations and how blatantly they abuse their power: arresting journalists, firing tear gas at camera crews and tearing down equipment and threatening to shoot people who tweet. Hopefully Ferguson will be the impetus that we need to demand a professional police force that has ethics and is devoted to serving a protecting, instead of rogue bands of jack-booted thugs with a badge that elevates them above the law.

I disagree.  I think it was the right move to release the tape.  Those in the media advocating on behalf of Brown were attempting to poison the well of public perception by creating a false narrative.  The video squashed that.  As for the rioters, they are going to loot no matter what.  This isn't about justice for them, its about stealing.  They don't care what really happened. They aren't looking for a reason but an excuse.

[avxo]

I disagree.  I think it was the right move to release the tape.  Those in the media advocating on behalf of Brown were attempting to poison the well of public perception by creating a false narrative.  The video squashed that.  As for the rioters, they are going to loot no matter what.  This isn't about justice for them, its about stealing.  They don't care what really happened. They aren't looking for a reason but an excuse.

Nonsense: those in the media advocating on behalf of Brown have continued and will continue to do so. They'll say "It was just a pack of cigarettes" or "By the Police's own admission, this played no role in the shooting." or "You don't know the whole story" or who knows what else. Absolutely nothing was gained by the release, especially when it was coupled with the other statements that that inept police chief made - that the Officer involved in the shooting didn't know about this.

Does the tape somehow make the shooting more reasonable? It doesn't.
Does the tape somehow make the Officer's actions more reasonable? It doesn't.
Does the tape somehow make the Ferguson Police's actions more reasonable? It doesn't.

Nothing was gained by this release at this moment in time and a lot was lost. The tape should have been released, no doubt. But at a later time, when the situation had been brought under control and tensions had subsided.

[Archer77]

Nonsense: those in the media advocating on behalf of Brown have continued and will continue to do so. They'll say "It was just a pack of cigarettes" or "You don't know the whole story" or who knows what else. Absolutely nothing was gained by the release, especially when it was coupled with the other statements that that inept police chief made - that the Officer involved in the shooting didn't know about this.

Does the tape somehow make the shooting more reasonable? It doesn't.
Does the tape somehow make the Officer's actions more reasonable? It doesn't.
Does the tape somehow make the Ferguson Police's actions more reasonable? It doesn't.

Nothing was gained by this release at this moment in time and a lot was lost. The tape should have been released, no doubt. But at a later time, when the situation had been brought under control and tensions had subsided.

It informs the populace that the image of Brown being fostered by the media is wrong and misleading. I prefer to  know when I'm being manipulated.   Releasing the tape had no bearing on the actions of the looters.   They were going to loot no matter what. Again, the riots aren't about anything other than getting free stuff.

[avxo]

It informs the populace that the image of Brown being fostered by the media is wrong and misleading.

Except it doesn't really inform the populace of anything relevant to the question at hand. Nothing in this tape shows Brown reaching for the Officer's gun. Nothing in this tape helps elucidate whether the shooting was necessary or not. Nothing in this tape shows the mental state of either the Officer or Brown. 

I prefer to  know when I'm being manipulated.

You're always being manipulated. You think the tape release by the police wasn't an attempt at manipulation?

Releasing the tape had no bearing on the actions of the looters.   They were going to loot no matter what. Again, the riots aren't about anything other than getting free stuff.

It had a bearing: it gave the rioters another excuse - and do note, I said excuse.

[Archer77]

Except it doesn't really inform the populace of anything relevant to the question at hand. Nothing in this tape shows Brown reaching for the Officer's gun. Nothing in this tape helps elucidate whether the shooting was necessary or not. Nothing in this tape shows the mental state of either the Officer or Brown. 


You're always being manipulated. You think the tape release by the police wasn't an attempt at manipulation?


It had a bearing: it gave the rioters another excuse - and do note, I said excuse.

The video wasn't produced out of thin air.  The police had said he was a suspect in a robbery.  There was a demand for proof.   

[avxo]

The video wasn't produced out of thin air.  The police had said he was a suspect in a robbery.  There was a demand for proof.

My point was that the robbery wasn't, by the Police's own admission, a factor in the stop in question. Mentioning the robbery at this point was just more ineptitude. Would it somehow make it all ok that he was shot if he was actually a suspect in the robbery?

[Option D]

Who cares.... black guy.... might have stolen smokes, deserves to die.

[Archer77]

My point was that the robbery wasn't, by the Police's own admission, a factor in the stop in question. Mentioning the robbery at this point was just more ineptitude. Would it somehow make it all ok that he was shot if he was actually a suspect in the robbery?

The video helps explain the mindset of Brown.  First, it shows his aggressiveness.  Secondly, it might indicate what he was thinking when the cop stopped him.  There is a good chance he assumed he was being stopped because of the robbery, heightening his aggression.

Who cares.... black guy.... might have stolen smokes, deserves to die.

Back with the race-baiting and persecution complex.  You're never going to believe anything other than what you want to believe.  Might have stolen?  The clothes were exactly the same.  I can't believe how delusional you are.

[avxo]

The video helps explain the mindset of Brown.  First, it shows his aggressiveness.  Secondly, it might indicate what he was thinking when the cop stopped him.  There is a good chance he assumed he was being stopped because of the robbery, heightening his aggression.

Even if it shows all that, the Police have already admitted this wasn't a factor in the stop, and the tape is almost certainly inadmissible as evidence anyways. Per Federal Rule of Evidence 404(b)(1), which is duplicated in some shape or form in most State's Rules of Evidence: "Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character."

I'm on my iPhone and don't have convenient access to Lexis account to look up the mirror State statute, but it's almost certainly there.

[Archer77]

Even if it shows all that, the Police have already admitted this wasn't a factor in the stop, and the tape is almost certainly inadmissible as evidence anyways. Per Federal Rule of Evidence 404(b)(1), which is duplicated in some shape or form in most State's Rules of Evidence: "Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character."

I'm on my iPhone and don't have convenient access to Lexis account to look up the mirror State statute, but it's almost certainly there.

We will have to see the police report from the officer.   Regardless of what anyone else said, if he at any point recognized Brown as the suspect it becomes relevant in court.   On a personal level, I'm glad they released the tape.  I personally enjoy Sharpton looking like a fool.

[JOHN MATRIX]

The video of the robbery/roughing up of the clerk, as well as the revelations of his criminal record, ARE important in the sense that it lends corroborative evidence which suggest the cop's version of the story is much more likely to be accurate, while greatly harming the narrative being pushed by the media and the idiot rioters that he was 'just an innocent sweet college boy who was walking down the street when an evil white racist cop pulled over and executed him for no reason'.

Archer is right.

[avxo]

We will have to see the police report from the officer.   Regardless of what anyone else said, if he at any point recognized Brown as the suspect it becomes relevant in court.

The police already said that he was not recognized and the robbery wasn't an issue in this stop. Am I talking to a wall here?

On a personal level, I'm glad they released the tape.  I personally enjoy Sharpton looking like a fool.

We all enjoy exposing Al Sharpton as the racist piece of shit that he is, although I'm not sure how much shit should be exposed. They belong in a septic tank, out of sight and out of mind.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

THIS IS PRECISELY WHY THE FEDS DON'T NEED TO BE IN THIS AT ALL!!

Holder and his goons are trying to make up for their embarrasing showing in the Zimmerman-Martin case last year.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/08/17/Holder-DOJ-Behind-the-Suppression-of-Michael-Brown-Robbery-Video

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/feds-urged-police-not-release-michael-brown-robbery-video-n182346

Holder was right....he knew that releasing the robbery video would further incite the crowd and its also why his store was subsequently looted.

[Archer77]

The police already said that he was not recognized and the robbery wasn't an issue in this stop. Am I talking to a wall here?


We all enjoy exposing Al Sharpton as the racist piece of shit that he is, although I'm not sure how much shit should be exposed. They belong in a septic tank, out of sight and out of mind.

He wasnt initially recognized and stopped because he was a suspect in a robbery..  The tape might be admissible in court because it confirms the officers report of an aggressive Brown. 

Holder was right....he knew that releasing the robbery video would further incite the crowd and its also why his store was subsequently looted.

The video didnt incite the looters. They were intent on stealing  and needed no further encouragement

[avxo]

He wasnt initially recognized and stopped because he was a suspect in a robbery..  The tape might be admissible in court because it confirms the officers report of an aggressive Brown.

No, it cannot. Again, as I previously wrote, per Federal Rule of Evidence 404(b)(1): "Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character." Similar (if not substantially identical) language exists in State Rules of Evidence.

I don't know how the above can be any clearer.

[Coach is Back!]

THIS IS PRECISELY WHY THE FEDS DON'T NEED TO BE IN THIS AT ALL!!

Holder and his goons are trying to make up for their embarrasing showing in the Zimmerman-Martin case last year.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/08/17/Holder-DOJ-Behind-the-Suppression-of-Michael-Brown-Robbery-Video

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/feds-urged-police-not-release-michael-brown-robbery-video-n182346

One of the biggest myths when this clown was "elected" is that racism would be less. The fact is he's made it (I would venture to say this is done on purpose) worse by 10 fold. This is THE most racist administration this country has ever seen. All the from Holder not doing anything with the Black Panthers and voter intimidation to Obama stupidly saying "If I had son like Trayvon he would look just like me" to this. He and this administration needs to keep quiet about anything that local government should be handling. Those fuckers are just as racist as Farrakan, Sharpton and Jackson combined.

[avxo]

One of the biggest myths when this clown was "elected" is that racism would be less. The fact is he's made it (I would venture to say this is done on purpose) worse by 10 fold. This is THE most racist administration this country has ever seen. All the from Holder not doing anything with the Black Panthers and voter intimidation to Obama stupidly saying "If I had son like Trayvon he would look just like me" to this. He and this administration needs to keep quiet about anything that local government should be handling. Those fuckers are just as racist as Farrakan, Sharpton and Jackson combined.

I agree with the broad outlines of your statement. I don't think that Obama, himself, is racist. But the notion that electing him would magically move us into some post-racial-tension world and things would just be wonderful is just bullshit. The simple fact is that the Obama administration has certainly fucked things up repeatedly.

[24KT]

Except it doesn't really inform the populace of anything relevant to the question at hand. Nothing in this tape shows Brown reaching for the Officer's gun. Nothing in this tape helps elucidate whether the shooting was necessary or not. Nothing in this tape shows the mental state of either the Officer or Brown. 


You're always being manipulated. You think the tape release by the police wasn't an attempt at manipulation?


It had a bearing: it gave the rioters another excuse - and do note, I said excuse.

Sorry Avxo, I know you're not going to like this, but... I'm in total 1000% agreement with you on this one!

[avxo]

Sorry Avxo, I know you're not going to like this, but... I'm in total 1000% agreement with you on this one!

I AM IMMEDIATELY SWITCHING MY POSITION! RELEASE ALL THE TAPES!

[24KT]

I AM IMMEDIATELY SWITCHING MY POSITION! RELEASE ALL THE TAPES!

LOL, ...I knew you wouldn't like it, ...but I had to weigh in.

ps: If it's any consolation, my agreeing with you, ...and in public no less,
...was extremely painful. In fact, it was downright torturous! 

[tonymctones]

Who cares.... black guy.... might have stolen smokes, deserves to die.

nah mang, he was an angel that was going to sell those blunts to raise money for the church.

did you not get the email?

[Archer77]

nah mang, he was an angel that was going to sell those blunts to raise money for the church.

did you not get the email?

He's having a reaction stemming from years of programming.

[Skip8282]

nah mang, he was an angel that was going to sell those blunts to raise money for the church.

did you not get the email?

Have they confirmed the guy on tape was Brown?

[OzmO]

What difference does it make if he was an angel or not?

What matters is whether or not Wilson had just cause to shot him.

[avxo]

What difference does it make if he was an angel or not?

What matters is whether or not Wilson had just cause to shot him.

This.