why arnold s's shoulders hurt now

[funk51]

 

[jpm101]

True, these three movements have caused injury to some BB'ers and lifters in general. But than again, so have benching (incline/flat/decline). Squats, DL', lateral raises and even simple curling..

 With regards to the PBN & Up-right rows, one of the many causes is poor hand spacing/grip position, rushing the weight (using too heavy a weight before really ready for it), no warm-up/stretch before lifting & ROM.  Last. but not least, God awful exercise styles. If feeling uncomfortable, or even a hard strain, doing these exercises...than may want to check the exercise style and form. No matter how much any "expert" may rave about the benefits of any movements, if not for you..than it's not for your body makeup..

The Press Behind The Neck (or Behind the Neck Press...whichever) and Up-right rows have been favorites of mine for years. Even SS'ing them in the same workout, which I have mentioned many times in the past.. Have also used chins behind the neck, on occasion. without any problems. SS'ing those also with regular front chins. Never having suffered any form of injury.  But that is my individual experience, more than likely that may not be yours. No one responds in any exercise in the exact same way.

Just some general observations, take them for what they may be worth, or not be worth. Not being critical of Arnold, he be the man.  Though I prefer Sergio as the top 1# BB'er..just my view.

If that extra wide hand spacing of Arnold's worked for him (and it most certainly did) than good. But for most guy's his wider grip places too much stress on the shoulder joints themselves. A closer grip, nearer the shoulders, sets the leverage more on to the actually delts and triceps (the pressing force) and avoiding joint stress. Also not much of a need to press the bar much higher than the top of the head, if building delts is the prime goal.

With Arnold's Up-right's (which seems more posed than taken during his actually workout) , the better advantage would be to have the hands placed closer, for most guys. Raising that bar to than height, with that middle grip, can give undo tension on the shoulder joints. Also the extended stress on the wrist and forearms. Keeping the bar close to the body (almost touching) can also reduce joint stress. If the bar travels out and away from the body. than more leverage and stress are placed on the shoulder joints.


Good Luck.
The last few years I have been using a Ez bar for Up-right, and find even less stress ont he wrist.

[Donny]

 

[oldtimer1]

I blame the bench press for the insane amount of shoulder problems with guys who lift weights. It's the most popular exercise and it's wrongly used to gauge how strong some is with singles. It's one of the worse exercises to judge strength but I digress. Does anyone have know anyone in their 50's who lifted since their teens who don't have shoulder problems? 

Aside from common guys who lift weights the list of pro's who have ruined shoulders is huge. Arnold, Sergio, Zane, Draper, Dickerson and the list goes on.  I think pushing a weight lying on a bed (bench) stops your upper back from rotating in the way it would want normally move.

I think it's safer to do full range benches with dumbbells. It becomes even safer if you keep the palms of your hands facing each other completely or to a degree. It puts the shoulder and pec tie in a more natural position.

I also think the best thing for a guy with shoulder problems is to do full range pushups. Go low with a straight body until the chest just about brushes the floor then to complete extension. I have seen 405lbs bench press guys that couldn't do 75 perfect push ups. So don't tell me it's too easy. Do four or five sets and it will be taxing enough for any man. 

[Donny]

I blame the bench press for the insane amount of shoulder problems with guys who lift weights. It's the most popular exercise and it's wrongly used to gauge how strong some is with singles. It's one of the worse exercises to judge strength but I digress. Does anyone have know anyone in their 50's who lifted since their teens who don't have shoulder problems? 

Aside from common guys who lift weights the list of pro's who have ruined shoulders is huge. Arnold, Sergio, Zane, Draper, Dickerson and the list goes on.  I think pushing a weight lying on a bed (bench) stops your upper back from rotating in the way it would want normally move.

I think it's safer to do full range benches with dumbbells. It becomes even safer if you keep the palms of your hands facing each other completely or to a degree. It puts the shoulder and pec tie in a more natural position.

I also think the best thing for a guy with shoulder problems is to do full range pushups. Go low with a straight body until the chest just about brushes the floor then to complete extension. I have seen 405lbs bench press guys that couldn't do 75 perfect push ups. So don't tell me it's too easy. Do four or five sets and it will be taxing enough for any man. 

OUTSTANDING POST

[funk51]

I blame the bench press for the insane amount of shoulder problems with guys who lift weights. It's the most popular exercise and it's wrongly used to gauge how strong some is with singles. It's one of the worse exercises to judge strength but I digress. Does anyone have know anyone in their 50's who lifted since their teens who don't have shoulder problems? 

Aside from common guys who lift weights the list of pro's who have ruined shoulders is huge. Arnold, Sergio, Zane, Draper, Dickerson and the list goes on.  I think pushing a weight lying on a bed (bench) stops your upper back from rotating in the way it would want normally move.

I think it's safer to do full range benches with dumbbells. It becomes even safer if you keep the palms of your hands facing each other completely or to a degree. It puts the shoulder and pec tie in a more natural position.

I also think the best thing for a guy with shoulder problems is to do full range pushups. Go low with a straight body until the chest just about brushes the floor then to complete extension. I have seen 405lbs bench press guys that couldn't do 75 perfect push ups. So don't tell me it's too easy. Do four or five sets and it will be taxing enough for any man. 

good points.....

[jpm101]

All good points from OldTimer1. Actually seen one big bench'er have a problem doing 20 true push-ups. And 20 bwt squats, for that matter. Sets of 2's are cool and all that, but do have limits.

DB's by all means, with rotating the DB's as they are pressed overhead. May also want to avoid doing any full ROM on a Smith style machines if benching. Only problem with DB's is that they become a pain, for most guys, about the 120lb+ range. Just getting into position and setting up to press...problem for most.

Always favored dips for upper body work, from wide to narrow to a straight up position  (dipping belt or harness when building up to a advance stage).  Much more so than any form of benching (BB, DB.Machine). As OldTimer1 said, never any true measure of strength with benching.

Want to measure a man's true all around strength, than try squat cleans and press. A full body exercise in one movement. Do 3X10 reps to really see in what shape you are really in. Plus, squat cleans & presses is a great muscle mass builder.

Good Luck.

[Yev33]

A lot of good points in this thread. I think one thing that is often overlooked when it comes to lifting injuries is plain overuse. And I think any excercise is prone to this no matter how great it is. Doing the same movements for years on end will inevitably lead to imbalance.

I love squats but I will take a break from them for 12-15 weeks and switch to front squats. Switch out bench press for incline bench, close grip bench, standing overhead press, floor press etc.. Switch out deadlifts for good mornings or RDL's. I don't think I have single excercise that I do year round no matter how much I like it.

[Novena]

Insufficient recovery time.

[jpm101]

From all the words written above (including mine) Novena sums it up the best:

Insufficient recovery time.





Good Luck.

[illuminati]

I blame the bench press for the insane amount of shoulder problems with guys who lift weights. It's the most popular exercise and it's wrongly used to gauge how strong some is with singles. It's one of the worse exercises to judge strength but I digress.

--- Does anyone have know anyone in their 50's who lifted since their teens who don't have shoulder problems?? ---

Aside from common guys who lift weights the list of pro's who have ruined shoulders is huge. Arnold, Sergio, Zane, Draper, Dickerson and the list goes on.  I think pushing a weight lying on a bed (bench) stops your upper back from rotating in the way it would want normally move.

I think it's safer to do full range benches with dumbbells. It becomes even safer if you keep the palms of your hands facing each other completely or to a degree. It puts the shoulder and pec tie in a more natural position.

I also think the best thing for a guy with shoulder problems is to do full range pushups. Go low with a straight body until the chest just about brushes the floor then to complete extension. I have seen 405lbs bench press guys that couldn't do 75 perfect push ups. So don't tell me it's too easy. Do four or five sets and it will be taxing enough for any man. 

I'm 54 have held UK national records in Bench Press.
Heavy Behind Neck Press, & Narrow Grip Upright Rows.
Thankfully No Shoulder Problems.
36yrs of training.
Plenty of other Injuries & Niggles Tho..

[jpm101]

 Illuminati makes a good point.

 Not everyone has lingering or major problems with heavy benching, press behind the neck or up-rows. Come in contact with older lifters (both PL'ers & Olympic lifters) , and their major complaint is lingering lower back and hip problems. Not always major injuries, but stiffness and some annoying aches . Find that simple stretches have done a lot to help in these cases. Also deep tissue massages...Rolfing, sport style massages, etc. Even Acupuncture.

The guy's who seem to have the most problems, with shoulder joints and other injuries, are current and former BB'ers.  Ligaments, tendons and linking muscle inserts can be the main issues.

Good Luck.

Side Bar:  nice accomplishments Illuminati.

[illuminati]

Illuminati makes a good point.

 Not everyone has lingering or major problems with heavy benching, press behind the neck or up-rows. Come in contact with older lifters (both PL'ers & Olympic lifters) , and their major complaint is lingering lower back and hip problems. Not always major injuries, but stiffness and some annoying aches . Find that simple stretches have done a lot to help in these cases. Also deep tissue massages...Rolfing, sport style massages, etc. Even Acupuncture.

The guy's who seem to have the most problems, with shoulder joints and other injuries, are current and former BB'ers.  Ligaments, tendons and linking muscle inserts can be the main issues.












Thank you for your reply.
I do a lot of warming up, at least 12min either stationary bike, rower, treadmill etc.
Plus warm up sets, I keep covered up to stay warm, and do believe in stretching movement
To keep as flexible as possible.
I like to think this has all helped me.
Let's see if it has when I get old..

Side Bar:  nice accomplishments Illuminati.

[chaos]

Couldn't be old age....