Richard Piano calls out Chris Aceto and gets whooped like an insolent toddler

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

The size of a muscle is directly related to its strength (bigger muscle = stronger muscle). This is a simple sentence but almost no one can put it in its proper context when ir comes to bodybuilding.

I remember Chris saying he could squat a ton and he had big quads... he saw the relation.

Size to strength correlation varies wildly. However size in no way equals strength. Pound for pound bodybuilders are not strong. They train slow twitch, muscles fibers. Which hold little performance value. While strength athletes train fast twitch. More performance,  yet smaller in size. This is why there is training to focus on different fiber types. That's why there are different rep ranges

[Van_Bilderass]

Size to strength correlation varies wildly. However size in no way equals strength. Pound for pound bodybuilders are not strong. They train slow twitch, muscles fibers. Which hold little performance value. While strength athletes train fast twitch. More performance,  yet smaller in size. This is why there is training to focus on different fiber types. That's why there are different rep ranges

You make the same mistakes everyone else makes when arguing this. Like I said, you have to put everything in context. I said a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, not that bodybuilder A is always stronger than smaller bodybuilder B. You can't compare two different individuals and then decide strength has no correlation with size. There are tons of factors that affect demonstratable strength. A small guy can be can be stronger than a big guy, but both of these will be stronger if the cross-sectional area of their muscle increases.

Big bodybuilders actually are very strong. Pros in general are very strong muscularly. They will often destroy top powerlifters in nontechnical lifts. Of course a powerlifter will outbench a bb if he has practiced his arch while using leg drive to push etc. Put both on a machine and compare again.

Bodybuilders do not train slow twitch fibers, or do so very little. And even if they did, those fibers do not hypertrophy much so training would have nothing to do with their size.

[anabolichalo]

You make the same mistakes everyone else makes when arguing this. Like I said, you have to put everything in context. I said a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, not that bodybuilder A is stronger than smaller bodybuilder B. You can't compare two different individuals and then decide strength has no correlation with size. There are tons of factors that affect demonstratable strength. A small guy can be can be stronger than a big guy, but both of these will be stronger if the cross-sectional area of their muscle increases.

Big bodybuilders are very strong. Pros in general are very strong muscularly. They will often destroy top powerlifters in nontechnical lifts. Of course a powerlifter will outbench a bb if he has practiced his arch while using leg drive to push etc. Put both on a machine and compare again.

Bodybuilders do not train slow twitch fibers, or do so very little. And even if they did, those fibers do not hypertrophy much so training would have nothing to do with their size.

do you believe in locking out the elbows in pressing movements?

my coach claims it's bad because it will overtime shorten the muscles and give a less aesthetic look to the muscle

[Van_Bilderass]

do you believe in locking out the elbows in pressing movements?

my coach claims it's bad because it will overtime shorten the muscles and give a less aesthetic look to the muscle

I don't know about that bro. I really don't know if locking out the elbows is bad, never thought about it and don't recall reading anything about that. I wonder what your coach thinks is the mechanism behind the "damage"? Tears? Nerve issues?

[anabolichalo]

I don't know about that bro. I really don't know if locking out the elbows is bad, never thought about it and don't recall reading anything about that. I wonder what your coach thinks is the mechanism behind the "damage"? Tears? Nerve issues?

no he actually told me i SHOULD lock out

i was pumping away and he gives me this whole "partial rep, partial development" story

he's old and senile tho

and never looked like he actually lifted

[Van_Bilderass]

no he actually told me i SHOULD lock out

i was pumping away and he gives me this whole "partial rep, partial development" story

he's old and senile tho

and never looked like he actually lifted

Oh, I would instinctively say that locking out might be more irritating on the elbow joint, causing some calcification eventually with nerve issues and then shrinking tricep or whatever.
Not locking out causing the short tricep syndrome, nah I doubt it. There is no such thing as full repetition in most bodybuilding movements anyway. That implies that the muscle is worked through it's full possible range of motion, fully stretched to fully contracted. How many movements do this? Almost none.

[anabolichalo]

Oh, I would instinctively say that locking out might be more irritating on the elbow joint, causing some calcification eventually with nerve issues and then shrinking tricep or whatever.
Not locking out causing the short tricep syndrome, nah I doubt it. There is no such thing as full repetition in most bodybuilding movements anyway. That implies that the muscle is worked through it's full possible range of motion, fully stretched to fully contracted. How many movements do this? Almost none.

this is exactly what i also thought on the matter


it is decided, i keep pressing without locking out


thanks brofessor

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

You make the same mistakes everyone else makes when arguing this. Like I said, you have to put everything in context. I said a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, not that bodybuilder A is always stronger than smaller bodybuilder B. You can't compare two different individuals and then decide strength has no correlation with size. There are tons of factors that affect demonstratable strength. A small guy can be can be stronger than a big guy, but both of these will be stronger if the cross-sectional area of their muscle increases.

Big bodybuilders actually are very strong. Pros in general are very strong muscularly. They will often destroy top powerlifters in nontechnical lifts. Of course a powerlifter will outbench a bb if he has practiced his arch while using leg drive to push etc. Put both on a machine and compare again.

Bodybuilders do not train slow twitch fibers, or do so very little. And even if they did, those fibers do not hypertrophy much so training would have nothing to do with their size.

At 165lb class I lifted more than at 198 lb class, and was smaller. Bigger does not men stronger. Even the same person. Not necessarily.  And as for strength I'm talking any lift. I fail to see how a bodybuilder would destroy a powerlifter on any lift. And this excludes powerlifts. When at bevs, strong and shapely, steel,  I see pros training with far from what I would call strong. If you think 200lb dumbells for rows, or whole stacks for reps on machines are strong. Iv see branch warren on vids doing hyper extensions with 315. If youre inexperienced then I guess to you this is strong. Yet your average 165lb class powerlifter, myself included does this.
I understand your point. Yet bb, in no way approach pl in any exercise.  
And using 8 to 10 reps is a slower twitch fiber. It isn't fast twitch.

[Van_Bilderass]

At 165lb class I lifted more than at 198 lb class, and was smaller. Bigger does not men stronger. Even the same person. Not necessarily.  And as for strength I'm talking any lift. I fail to see how a bodybuilder would destroy a powerlifter on any lift. And this excludes powerlifts. When at bevs, strong and shapely, steel,  I see pros training with far from what I would call strong. If you think 200lb dumbells for rows, or whole stacks for reps on machines are strong. Iv see branch warren on vids doing hyper extensions with 315. If youre inexperienced then I guess to you this is strong. Yet your average 165lb class powerlifter, myself included does this.
I understand your point. Yet bb, in no way approach pl in any exercise.  
And using 8 to 10 reps is a slower twitch fiber. It isn't fast twitch.

There is a reason there are weightclasses in powerlifting too. A powerlifter going down a weightclass lifting more... that's an anomaly, come on now. Sure if you tweak the supportive gear etc you might improve your numbers but as far as real strength powerlifters generally lose strength going down in weight.

I don't compete in powerlifting but do it for fun. Train with some wordclass IPF guys too. Powerlifters can use their explosive, whole body technique to their advantage in bodybuilding lifts too but put them on something like the leg extension and have them do the excercise like the bodybuilder, same cadence, and you will see something else.

I remember Dave Tate saying how he found the "bodybuilders are weak" comment to be a bunch of bullshit. He said every pro bb he has trained with has been strong as shit.

[jamesjenkinsfitness]

I respect your opinion. I compete raw, used to train with several upa, wpo, apf, record holders. But they were equipped.when I say they aren't strong, I'm comparing them to myself or those around me. Not to the general public. But I started by training with and around pros. The same weight I see them do at 270, is what I do at 165. So to me it's not strong. But it's all relative. Dave tate I respect. Greatly. Yet Westside has few who can lift without equiptment. Him being one. Of them.  Also he a older breed where those guys rarely did much variety of assistance exercises. They are strong bb but comparing them to pl, isn't even close.

[Coach is Back!]

i disagree.

strength is a byproduct of bbing.

can you have a great physique and not be relatively 'strong'? of course you can.

i am not a strong dude. there are guys much smaller than me who could bury me poundage wise. they dont carry near the same amount of tissue i do and prolly never will no matter how strong they get.

strength is an important part of athleticism- take two athletes of equal skill, make one stronger, whos the better athlete?

strength is not an important aspect of bbing. drugs, genetics, stimulus, nutrition. those are all you need.

Ok, so this is the thing. It goes much deeper on a physiological level especially when it comes to density as well as hypertrophy. Even though you don't have to 1rm every week, keeping between 3-5 reps will not only increase fiber thickness (myofibril) but will also increase muscle density. On a sarcoplasmic level reps are higher and although hypertrophy is greater the thickness and density of the muscle is not as great. As laymen as that is, that's what see. Even as drugged up as these pros and high ranking amateurs are, you can tell the ones that train heavy. Those would be the ones with the more powerful looking physiques.

Look at Dorian, Ronnie, JOJ, Branch all trained heavy, all had and have thick, dense powerful physiques. Even when you take a powerlifter such as Dan Green, the same thing. Beginning bodybuilders especially need to train for power and strength. That's my take in a nutshell.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Ok, so this is the thing. It goes much deeper on a physiological level especially when it comes to density as well as hypertrophy. Even though you don't have to 1rm every week, keeping between 3-5 reps will not only increase fiber thickness (myofibril) but will also increase muscle density. On a sarcoplasmic level reps are higher and although hypertrophy is greater the thickness and density of the muscle is not as great. As laymen as that is, that's what see. Even as drugged up as these pros and high ranking amateurs are, you can tell the ones that train heavy. Those would be the ones with the more powerful looking physiques.

Look at Dorian, Ronnie, JOJ, Branch all trained heavy, all had and have thick, dense powerful physiques. Even when you take a powerlifter such as Dan Green, the same thing. Beginning bodybuilders especially need to train for power and strength. That's my take in a nutshell.

What about Stan efferding? Or JOJ's legs? Does Phil Heath look "powerful"? Because he's huge and striated everywhere if you've seen him IRL and he trains like a little bitch.

I see so many exceptions to the rule of what you are advocating

[SF1900]

What about Stan efferding? Or JOJ's legs? Does Phil Heath look "powerful"? Because he's huge and striated everywhere if you've seen him IRL and he trains like a little bitch.

I see so many exceptions to the rule of what you are advocating

Big Chiro Flex = 3.4 heaths wider than phil heath.

[Coach is Back!]

What about Stan efferding? Or JOJ's legs? Does Phil Heath look "powerful"? Because he's huge and striated everywhere if you've seen him IRL and he trains like a little bitch.

I see so many exceptions to the rule of what you are advocating

Both genetically suck in the leg department. There Are exceptions to every rule. 

[mr.turbo]

man that guy is smart isn't he

srs did anyone even take note of my theory here I think I made some leaps science of muscular development

hehe it's pretty good

go ahead elaborate

[thegamechanger]

i call bullshit on the argument that you can see how trains/trained heavy.
its more a wishful thinking of people who for one reason or another like to train heavy but it got no base in reality or fact.

[NordicNerd]

I don't see it, Piana holding his own pretty easily, right on many things...

Agree, better than I would have thought..

NN

[MAXX]

Yes, this theory is called "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy". How much it contributes to size I don't know but I'm sure it does to some degree.

You can build lots of muscle doing "blood volume training", "high repping" etc but none of it means that load isn't an important stimulus for actual increase in the protein component of muscle tissue.

Just because you acknowledge that strength and size are related, and EVERYONE believes this in reality no matter what they say, it doesn't mean you advocate ballistic low rep training with "heavy" weights. It just means that the higher the load the higher the hypertrophy stimulus, all things being equal. You have to weigh the benefits of chasing numbers against the risks of injury.

Kai Greene... he's not a "weightlifter" and "weight means nothing"... then what the fuck is he doing in the above videos?

Thanks!

Good to have Van_B here as a source of wisdom and knowlage

[MAXX]

hehe it's pretty good

go ahead elaborate

just google that shit "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy"

it's pretty much what I had in my mind

[falco]

Piano chicken out on this interview, they called Bostin 3cc's Loyd.

[Coach is Back!]

i call bullshit on the argument that you can see how trains/trained heavy.
its more a wishful thinking of people who for one reason or another like to train heavy but it got no base in reality or fact.

It does both visually and physiologically. When Van talks about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy he's talking about higher rep ranges when is fine if that's all you're after. Essentially it's more training for "feel" and a "pump' (forcing as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible). I've always said what good is it to look strong if aren't.

[thegamechanger]

It does both visually and physiologically. When Van talks about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy he's talking about higher rep ranges when is fine if that's all you're after. Essentially it's more training for "feel" and a "pump' (forcing as much blood and nutrients into the muscle as possible). I've always said what good is it to look strong if aren't.

if looking strong would be the only purpose but when its mixed with LOOKING FREAKIN HOT AND SEXY it makes sense

[Coach is Back!]

if looking strong would be the only purpose but when its mixed with LOOKING FREAKIN HOT AND SEXY it makes sense

An ambercrombie model can be the same thing.

[local hero]

The thing is, much like having the genes for being massive, the strength comes with it... You don't get massive and strong gradualy, this will happen in a few yrs, so if you aren't repping 4 plates on the bench in your 1st 5 yrs or less it prob won't happen for you

If you chase the dream , try and grind out heavier and heavier weights you may get a little bigger, youl more than likely get some bad injuries tho... So have some sence, look after your body and look good and be healthy for the long haul..

[anabolichalo]

The thing is, much like having the genes for being massive, the strength comes with it... You don't get massive and strong gradualy, this will happen in a few yrs, so if you aren't repping 4 plates on the bench in your 1st 5 yrs or less it prob won't happen for you

If you chase the dream , try and grind out heavier and heavier weights you may get a little bigger, youl more than likely get some bad injuries tho... So have some sence, look after your body and look good and be healthy for the long haul..

hmmm...

So I have to admit I have come to really enjoy this board and its morbid curiosity with the chemical side of bodybuilding.

I sent my friend, a current IFBB pro, an email asking him if hed be willing to record everything he injects and eats in one day for me to post on here. Here it is below:

----

Subject:     Daily Protocol
From:     XXXXXX@securenym.net
Date:     Wed, April 24, 2013 11:26 am
To:     XXXXXX@securenym.net
Priority:     Normal
Options:     View Full Header |  View Printable Version  | Download this as a file| Add to Addressbook

So heres basically what I do in a normal training day in the offseason...enjoy lol

7:00AM - Wake up, drink 2 scoops of BCAA's, pin 5iu GH, take 50mcg t3

7:30AM - pin 10iu humalog IM, eat 60g whey isolate, 2 cups oats, 1 cup strawberries

9:30AM - pin 100mg injectable dbol, 100mg TNE, 15iu humulin-R subq, eat 1 cup oats, 2 cups egg whites

10:30 AM - 40g whey isolate, 75g carb powder

11:00AM - train while drinking gatorade mixed with 20g whey isolate, 50g carb powder, 2 scoops BCAA's, 10g creatine

12:00PM  - done training, immediately inject 10iu GH IM or IV (i hate doing it IV so sometimes i just pussy out and do it IM lol)

12:30PM -  10iu humalog IM with my post workout shake of 80g whey isolate, 100g carb powder

2:30PM - 8oz chicken breast, 2 cups grits or white rice

5:00PM - up to 16oz of chicken/turkey breast with a sweet potato (basically by this point in the day my stomach is crazy distended and i want to puke my guts out from the amount of food so i will put out about a pound of chicken or turkey and try to eat as much of it as possible without vomiting. then i eat the sweet potato when i hit a wall with the protein).

8:00pm - about 10-12oz of steak, usually flank or top sirloin. i dont really weigh it just basically again i buy a pound and eat however much i can stomach.

9:00PM - do my gear injections, depends what im running but if its a standard offseason i usually run a few grams of test deca and eq. I actually prefer to do all my long ester shots on mondays and thursdays which can be annoying because it can be 6-9cc's in a day depending on the gear im running and the mg/ml but heres a general idea...
3cc test cyp 300 in right glute
3cc deca 300 in left glute
3cc eq 300 right quad
3cc test e 300 left quad

then on Thursday for example i might do 5cc's in each VG again just depends what im running but i usually do my long esters like this

10:30PM - 60g whey isolate blended  with a few scoops of ice cream and 2 tablespoons peanut butter

11:30PM right before going to sleep 5iu GH subq

when i wake up in the middle of the night to go piss ill pin another 5iu GH subq

thats pretty much an average offseason day for me. i try to eat pretty clean and get almost all my calories from good foods. this keeps me pretty lean so i only really need about 10 weeks to get really shredded for a contest. i have a cheat meal once a week usually for dinner on sunday but even then its nothing too crazy. if i go to crazy on the cheat meals and have like a whole pizza the sodium will make me hold too much water and make my blood pressure go through the roof. the last time i ate a whole pizza as a cheat meal i almost had to go to the hospital the next day because of my blood pressure. i thought my head was going to explode. i only eat steak once or twice per week for dinner i dont eat tons of red meat because my cholestrol levels are already pretty fucked from the gear. people need to know that getting huge is just about being consistent. take a lot of gear eat a lot of clean food train hard and dont stop for years and youll end up huge everything else is genetics which is out of your control anyway.