PROTEIN KILLS! new study wake up call

[Coach is Back!]

Bodybuilders as a group are stupid when it comes to protein. Who can blame them? All the pros over-consume and the magazines and supplement companies push high intakes of protein. I rather doubt you need more than 100g a day to build muscle. More than that is merely converted to sugar in the liver. So it is a monumental waste of money and resources to consume so much protein. I think 50g is sufficient to build muscle. Most young guys don't have enough calories so figure they need more protein. What a bunch of fools. Stop listening to knuckleheads in the gym and silly magazines. Go to a university library and buy the thick text book in nutrition that is used by graduate students. That is your best source of information. Stop all this bro science for goodness sake.

Clearly you need a balanced diet. That means fats, carbs and protein. You don't need extra vitamins if you have a balanced diet and a surplus calorie intake.

Nope, the muscleheads prefer to believe they need more protein. Ah, the folly that comes with lifting weights. Thick as dumbbells! And there is no cure for the universal affliction called ignorance.

It is safer to carry some excess body fat. Studies such as the above suggest it helps health and longevity. There you are. Safety fat!

*sigh* Stop Vince, for Gods sake just stop. 50grms is barely survival for a sedentary person. 

[WannaBePro]

What the article doesn't seem to mention is that over 100 mice were killed off because of extremely poor health when put on low protein diets.
Here's an interesting study/analysis of mice being fed different macronutrients (percentages) and the effects on energy and longevity: http://download.cell.com/cell-metabolism/mmcs/journals/1550-4131/PIIS1550413114000655.mmc1.pdf
If you scroll down to page 7 and read the last couple paragraphs of the blurb regarding table S1 you will see that mice given low protein diets had serious health issues (extreme weight loss, rectal prolapse  , and "failure to thrive"). Those diets have been discontinued.

I think balance is key. I personally like keto diets with refeeds, but that's because I'm obsessed with body composition. If I were going for a healthy body I'd probably stick to 30% P, 50% C and 20% F, or something like that. But we all make choices and have to live with the consequences.

[FermiDirac]

What the article doesn't seem to mention is that over 100 mice were killed off because of extremely poor health when put on low protein diets.
Here's an interesting study/analysis of mice being fed different macronutrients (percentages) and the effects on energy and longevity: http://download.cell.com/cell-metabolism/mmcs/journals/1550-4131/PIIS1550413114000655.mmc1.pdf
If you scroll down to page 7 and read the last couple paragraphs of the blurb regarding table S1 you will see that mice given low protein diets had serious health issues (extreme weight loss, rectal prolapse  , and "failure to thrive"). Those diets have been discontinued.

I think balance is key. I personally like keto diets with refeeds, but that's because I'm obsessed with body composition. If I were going for a healthy body I'd probably stick to 30% P, 50% C and 20% F, or something like that. But we all make choices and have to live with the consequences.

I think the most important question that needs answering is the exact names of financiers of the research.
Researchers, just like senators, should wear sponsor jackets much alike those of F1 racers.

[thegamechanger]

any study on mice you can expect the same result in men.

we are mice.

true story.

[FermiDirac]

any study on mice you can expect the same result in men.

we are mice.

true story.

There is a 1:1 mapping between mice and men, obviously. 

Love these scientific articles.
The problem is not the research, the problem lies in the conclusions made by either the researches or the readers. Correlations needs not imply causality.

[thegamechanger]

where are the studies showing that a high protein intake makes you luster for the cock?

[the trainer]

This is what happen when you try to drink too much protein.

PORN star Sexy Cora bit off more than she could chew when she tried to break the ORAL SEX world

record for a new blue movie.Blonde Cora — real name Carolin Berger — had aimed to service 200 punters in Hamburg, Germany.

But she was forced to call off the bid when she collapsed after reaching her 75th man and was rushed to hospital with breathing difficulties.

The 21-year-old star is currently on police bail for filming sex scenes for another porno in a family park in broad daylight.

[El Diablo Blanco]

This is what happen when you try to drink too much protein.

PORN star Sexy Cora bit off more than she could chew when she tried to break the ORAL SEX world

record for a new blue movie.Blonde Cora — real name Carolin Berger — had aimed to service 200 punters in Hamburg, Germany.

But she was forced to call off the bid when she collapsed after reaching her 75th man and was rushed to hospital with breathing difficulties.

The 21-year-old star is currently on police bail for filming sex scenes for another porno in a family park in broad daylight.

You have to wonder what her dad did to her as a child to grow up so fucked up.

[dustin]

Low protein, low calorie, low activity, low fun lifestyles do prolong life. We've known that for years. This isn't a life extensionist forum however, so fuck off.

I don't want to castrate the quality of my life just to live another two or three pitiful years eating bird seed and staying indoors to avoid any accidental fun and enjoyment. If that's up your alley, go buy some organic qiunoa and stick it up your rectum for a low glycemic treat, asshole.

[WannaBePro]

Low protein, low calorie, low activity, low fun lifestyles do prolong life. We've known that for years. This isn't a life extensionist forum however, so fuck off.

I don't want to castrate the quality of my life just to live another two or three pitiful years eating bird seed and staying indoors to avoid any accidental fun and enjoyment. If that's up your alley, go buy some organic qiunoa and stick it up your rectum for a low glycemic treat, asshole.

Speaking of which:

[the trainer]

Low protein, low calorie, low activity, low fun lifestyles do prolong life. We've known that for years. This isn't a life extensionist forum however, so fuck off.

I don't want to castrate the quality of my life just to live another two or three pitiful years eating bird seed and staying indoors to avoid any accidental fun and enjoyment. If that's up your alley, go buy some organic qiunoa and stick it up your rectum for a low glycemic treat, asshole.

organic quinoa is one of the most healthiest foods that you can eat whats wrong with you.

[Country Guy]

The 21-year-old star is currently on police bail for filming sex scenes for another porno in a family park in broad daylight.

Wrong - she died a few years ago. Had a heart attack while under the knife trying to get her tits made bigger yet again... 

[oldtimer1]

I have never read any scientific real research that proves you need a high protein diet if you lift weights. Absolutely none. These grams of protein per kilo of weight never has any factual backing. I'm afraid the only real research I have seen with nitrogen retention has shown that extra protein just isn't utilized to build muscle. 

[The Abdominal Snoman]

So this report was basically about shakes. Which we all know by now can have almost anything they want inside the jug and call it whatever on the label. Very few Protein shakes are low carb or no carb in the market for the general public. It's the sugar people. It's always been the sugar. And if your drinking a shake where the powder comes from China, that opens up a whole other can of worms on what is actually killing people...

[mr.turbo]

i am 61

yes you will look good when you die early

[Vince B]

Listen to the din the flotsam make. Like dumbbells in a free weight area. Lots of noise but hardly anyone growing except if on the oids.

Show me valid research done on champion natural bodybuilders indicating protein requirement.

In the meantime, Coach and other scholars continue to believe whatever the muscleheads told them.

If you need 50 g of protein to sustain your muscles would taking 200 g or more enlighten you to your excesses?

[Disgusted]

Just to play it safe I cut protein out of my diet.

[Coach is Back!]

Listen to the din the flotsam make. Like dumbbells in a free weight area. Lots of noise but hardly anyone growing except if on the oids.

Show me valid research done on champion natural bodybuilders indicating protein requirement.

In the meantime, Coach and other scholars continue to believe whatever the muscleheads told them.

If you need 50 g of protein to sustain your muscles would taking 200 g or more enlighten you to your excesses?

Vince, I called you out YEARS ago to debate me. You never responded. You haven't given me or anyone else on here any reason to believe or even take seriously the bullshit you spew on here. This especially goes for you so-called expertise on hypertrophy. Back your shit up, Vince. I have for the most part on here for years.

[mr.turbo]

Everyone has different DNA and a different gene pool and different metabolism.
I belong to the group-type who can maintain my size by not having protein for weeks.
To put size on, I do not need more than 100gr of protein daily.
High protein intake for me is only important during my pre contest diet.



what killed this man?

[FermiDirac]

Listen to the din the flotsam make. Like dumbbells in a free weight area. Lots of noise but hardly anyone growing except if on the oids.

Show me valid research done on champion natural bodybuilders indicating protein requirement.

In the meantime, Coach and other scholars continue to believe whatever the muscleheads told them.

If you need 50 g of protein to sustain your muscles would taking 200 g or more enlighten you to your excesses?

Even if research was conducted on this group, the results would at most been completely useless as the sample size is too small.

[Vince B]

Vince, I called you out YEARS ago to debate me. You never responded. You haven't given me or anyone else on here any reason to believe or even take seriously the bullshit you spew on here. This especially goes for you so-called expertise on hypertrophy. Back your shit up, Vince. I have for the most part on here for years.

Well, Coach, it is rather pointless debating hypertrophy with blokes like you. Why? Because you have little clue whether a theory is true or not. How would you test a theory? How would you refute a theory? I have presented an original theory of hypertrophy but the experts here continue to cling onto what they believe. They would rather die than change their beliefs. So they do the honourable thing and take their false theories to their graves everyone seems to be happy. Amazing this sport of bodybuilding.

I continue to prove my theory every time I train and get a result. All I need is sufficient motivation to keep training on a regular basis. The only way that is going to happen is if I never turn my computer on! Also, it is difficult to get really big at my age since I have accumulated so many injuries. When the heavy weights arrive the joints complain and soon enough something gives. I sure wish I knew what I know now back in 1958. I would have been a Mr Universe no worries at all. Not that those titles mean much any more which is a real shame. We can all thank Joe Weider and his silly Mr Olympia. That was a blow to all former champions but no one knew it at the time.

[Vince B]

Even if research was conducted on this group, the results would at most been completely useless as the sample size is too small.

We need research not sponsored by supplement companies. Getting 40 naturals in a definitive study would sure help us settle the protein question.

[dustin]

I have never read any scientific real research that proves you need a high protein diet if you lift weights. Absolutely none. These grams of protein per kilo of weight never has any factual backing. I'm afraid the only real research I have seen with nitrogen retention has shown that extra protein just isn't utilized to build muscle. 

I'm convinced you just need a teensy bit extra a day versus not building muscle. You only build muscle in milligram and gram ranges, not pounds. Glycogen is easy to pack on and people probably correlate the wrong things. I get over 100g of quality protein on a good day and I'm the leanest and most muscled I've ever been in my life. No sense in pounding your kidneys and wallet when it does no different.

[FermiDirac]

We need research not sponsored by supplement companies. Getting 40 naturals in a definitive study would sure help us settle the protein question.

Yes, but then you would need 40 top level natural bodybuilders and hope none of them lie or create too many statistical outliers. The problem in these forms of researches are the amount of subjects in each experiment. Even if as little as one out of forty is off the charts (outlier) you are instantly looking at an decrease of 2.5% in confidence level at least. Add to that all the other factors and you can see how this tiny experiment quickly loses validity among peer researchers. Hence, it will be hard to allocate/motivate a group of researchers to spend their time on an experiment with high likelihood of failure and very low rewards. Also, should the experiment disprove the myth of overconsuming protein, they can expect massive lawsuits from the supplement companies due to "loss of revenues" (only in America, oh brother).

[Gonuclear]

Ibrahim, who is also chief medical officer for the Sydney Roosters and Sydney FC, agrees with researchers who say a diet that has moderate amounts of high-quality protein (about 15 to 20 per cent of total calorie intake) and is relatively low in fat and high in good-quality complex carbohydrates will yield the best metabolic health and prospects for longevity.

Bullshit.  The latest (objective) research says the opposite:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/health/low-carb-vs-low-fat-diet.html