Author Topic: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.  (Read 11631 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 10:08:37 AM »
they have how many members (roughly) compared to the worldwide population of Muslims?

 ::)

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2014, 10:12:49 AM »
::)

so you got nothing ?

well, at least you still have your beliefs even if they are based on nothing

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 10:14:32 AM »
On Wednesday, President Obama gave a speech intended to lay out a strategy for dealing with ISIS. Early in the speech, he said ISIS is not Islamic, even though the group now calls itself the "Islamic State." Hours earlier, CNS News said the Council on American-Islamic Relations wanted Obama to reject ISIS’ “misappro-priation of Islamic terms and concepts,” and recognize the terrorist group was created by “the lack of freedom and justice in the region.”

"Now, let's make two things clear," Obama said. "ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim and ISIL is certainly not a state."

Obama went on to say the group took advantage of sectarian strife and Syria's civil war to gain territory in Iraq and Syria. He also went on to say the group is not recognized by any other nation.

"ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple," he added. It's vision, he explained, is to slaughter everyone who stands in its way.

Obama's statements, however, appear to be exactly what CAIR national executive director Nihad Awad said Muslims want to hear. According to CNS, leaders with CAIR and other Muslim groups were watching to see what Obama said on the issue.

“American Muslims will evaluate the president’s strategy based on his willingness to reject ISIS’ misappropriation of Islamic terms and concepts, his clear support for the mainstream opposition to Syria’s murderous regime, his insistence on a non-sectarian government in Iraq, and his recognition that ISIS was created and is fueled by the lack of freedom and justice in the region,” Awad said.

CNS said that ISIS "claims to be acting in the name of Islam, has declared an Islamic 'caliphate' and invokes Mohammed and the Qur’an in its propaganda material." The administration, however, has continually said ISIS is not related to Islam.

Twitchy said that a number of people disagreed with what appeared to be Obama's first main point. Many wondered what Obama thought the first "I" in "ISIS" stood for.

"Obama says ISIS not Islamic," one person said. "Someone should probably tell them that."

Another person said that Obama is "scared to death to blame Islam for anything." One Twitter critic sarcastically said the "Muslim brotherhood is an atheist group."

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 10:42:10 AM »

Obama’s ‘Strategy’ Has No Chance of Success


9:21 PM, Sep 10, 2014 • By FREDERICK W. KAGAN and KIMBERLY KAGAN


 

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President Obama just announced that he is bringing a counter-terrorism strategy to an insurgency fight. He was at pains to repeat the phrase “counter-terror” four times in a short speech. Noting that ISIL is not a state (partly because the international community thankfully does not recognize it), he declared, “ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.”  Neither of those sentences, unfortunately, is true.

obama


ISIL is an insurgent group that controls enormous territory in Iraq and Syria that it governs. It maneuvers conventional light infantry forces supported by vehicles mounting machine guns and occasionally armored personnel carriers against the regular forces of the Iraqi Army and the Kurdish Peshmerga—and wins. 

It is purely and simply not a terrorist organization any longer. Neither is it the simple manifestation of nihilistic evil the president makes out.

ISIL has described a very clear vision of seizing control of all of the territory of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian Territories.  It intends to abolish all of the borders and redraw them according to a new structure of governance suitable to its hateful version of an old Islamic heresy.  That vision also makes it more than a simple terrorist organization.  It’s awfully hard to develop a sound strategy when you start by mis-diagnosing the problem so profoundly. That’s why the “strategy” the president just announced has no chance of success.

Necrosis

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 11:05:21 AM »
Obama’s ‘Strategy’ Has No Chance of Success


9:21 PM, Sep 10, 2014 • By FREDERICK W. KAGAN and KIMBERLY KAGAN


 

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President Obama just announced that he is bringing a counter-terrorism strategy to an insurgency fight. He was at pains to repeat the phrase “counter-terror” four times in a short speech. Noting that ISIL is not a state (partly because the international community thankfully does not recognize it), he declared, “ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.”  Neither of those sentences, unfortunately, is true.

obama


ISIL is an insurgent group that controls enormous territory in Iraq and Syria that it governs. It maneuvers conventional light infantry forces supported by vehicles mounting machine guns and occasionally armored personnel carriers against the regular forces of the Iraqi Army and the Kurdish Peshmerga—and wins. 

It is purely and simply not a terrorist organization any longer. Neither is it the simple manifestation of nihilistic evil the president makes out.

ISIL has described a very clear vision of seizing control of all of the territory of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian Territories.  It intends to abolish all of the borders and redraw them according to a new structure of governance suitable to its hateful version of an old Islamic heresy.  That vision also makes it more than a simple terrorist organization.  It’s awfully hard to develop a sound strategy when you start by mis-diagnosing the problem so profoundly. That’s why the “strategy” the president just announced has no chance of success.


He explained how ISIS wasn't a recognized state, are you retarded?

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2014, 11:32:32 AM »
On Wednesday, President Obama gave a speech intended to lay out a strategy for dealing with ISIS. Early in the speech, he said ISIS is not Islamic, even though the group now calls itself the "Islamic State." Hours earlier, CNS News said the Council on American-Islamic Relations wanted Obama to reject ISIS’ “misappro-priation of Islamic terms and concepts,” and recognize the terrorist group was created by “the lack of freedom and justice in the region.”

"Now, let's make two things clear," Obama said. "ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim and ISIL is certainly not a state."




Obama did say ISIL was not a state but he also said it was not representative of Islam as a religion.  The first part is correct while the second is demonstrably false and naive.  One need only examine the type of Islamic societies that existed around the time of Mohammed and Mohammed's actions themselves to confirm that.  My question to him is whether Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam and whether it is state.  Saudi Arabia commits gruesome acts of violence on its own people and its citizens are suffering from an extreme deficit of freedom and justice.
A

Necrosis

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2014, 11:50:58 AM »
Obama did say ISIL was not a state but he also said it was not representative of Islam as a religion.  The first part is correct while the second is demonstrably false and naive.  One need only examine the type of Islamic societies that existed around the time of Mohammed and Mohammed's actions themselves to confirm that.  My question to him is whether Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam and whether it is state.  Saudi Arabia commits gruesome acts of violence on its own people and its citizens are suffering from an extreme deficit of freedom and justice.

You could say the exact thing about any religion. it all needs to go.

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2014, 11:52:26 AM »
You could say the exact thing about any religion. it all needs to go.

Yes you could but Islam are the group currently cutting peoples heads off.
A

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2014, 12:35:04 PM »
Anyone want to venture a guess on who said this last week on Hannity when referring to ISIS

 "either convert them or kill them. One or the other"

Isn't that pretty much what ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria

I wonder if he sees the irony


Dos Equis

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2014, 12:40:41 PM »
You could say the exact thing about any religion. it all needs to go.

No you can't.

Soul Crusher

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Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2014, 12:48:17 PM »
No you can't.

sure you can

Unless of course you're going to tell us that Phil Robertson is not really a christian


Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2014, 12:49:16 PM »
.

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2014, 12:52:31 PM »
A

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2014, 12:54:54 PM »
.

Hot chick...put down her weapons and went to crossfit or DQ.....muslim douchbag got on a schoolbus full of Israeli school kids and blew herself up.
L

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
Hot chick...put down her weapons and went to crossfit or DQ.....muslim douchbag got on a schoolbus full of Israeli school kids and blew herself up.


 ;D

To Strawfagget they are the same

What I'd like to know is how they are alike other than they are both women holding guns.    What is he saying, women with guns are all terrorists?  That doesn't sound very logical.  I guess in his mind all black guys in hoodies are thugs too.
A

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2014, 01:18:26 PM »
explain how they are similar

first the difference

one is exists in society that has broken down and is in chaos and civil war

they both believe in the 2nd coming of Jesus and and a fight with the anti-christ

take the girl on the left (or Phil Robertson or any of hundreds of thousand if not millions of christians) and imagine the US society has broken down and in civil war and it wouldn't take very long for them to believe it's the End Times and that they have to prepare the earth for the  return of Jesus and they would likely have no problem enforcing "biblical law" as they interpret it.  Remind yourself how many things are punishable by death in the bible.   Christianity is a doomsday cult patiently (and at times no so patiently) awaiting the end of the world.  

For every Phil Robertson type willing to say this shit in public you've got 100 or a 1000 more saying the same shit in private
Take Missouri police officer Dan Page talking to the a chapter of the Oath Keepers

Quote
“I personally believe the Lord Jesus Christ is my saviour, but I’m also a killer,” he is seen saying. “I’ve killed a lot and, if I need to, I will kill a whole bunch more. If you don’t want to get killed, don’t show up in front of me.”
http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/08/ferguson-cop-dan-page-relishes-being-a-killer/

If our society broke down how long do you think it would take this guy to start killing people who didn't share his beliefs


Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2014, 01:24:28 PM »
first the difference

one is exists in society that has broken down and is in chaos and civil war

they both believe in the 2nd coming of Jesus and and a fight with the anti-christ

take the girl on the left (or Phil Robertson or any of hundreds of thousand if not millions of christians) and imagine the US society has broken down and in civil war and it wouldn't take very long for them to believe it's the End Times and that they have to prepare the earth for the  return of Jesus and they would likely have no problem enforcing "biblical law" as they interpret it.  Remind yourself how many things are punishable by death in the bible.   Christianity is a doomsday cult patiently (and at times no so patiently) awaiting the end of the world.  

For every Phil Robertson type willing to say this shit in public you've got 100 or a 1000 more saying the same shit in private
Take Missouri police officer Dan Page talking to the a chapter of the Oath Keepers
http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/08/ferguson-cop-dan-page-relishes-being-a-killer/

If our society broke down how long do you think it would take this guy to start killing people who didn't share his beliefs



Doesn't seem like you have a grasp on the word similar.   How are those two individuals alike?   Tell me about each of their lives, their actions and opinions on maters of import like murder.   I thought lefties hated stereotyping?
A

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2014, 01:28:49 PM »
Doesn't seem like you have a grasp on the word similar.   How are those two individuals alike?   Tell me about each of their lives, their actions and opinions on maters of import like murder. 

what part don't you understand

they both are members of a doomsday cult waiting for the 2nd coming of Jesus

put the white girl with the bible in a society that has broken down and it's my opinion that it would not take long for her and Phil Robertson and Dan Page to start enforcing their version of biblical law

you already have the quote from Phil Robertson saying covert or die

maybe the girl on the left would draw the line at being a suicide bomber but then again you never know

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2014, 01:35:03 PM »
what part don't you understand

they both are members of a doomsday cult waiting for the 2nd coming of Jesus

put the white girl with the bible in a society that has broken down and it's my opinion that it would not take long for her and Phil Robertson and Dan Page to start enforcing their version of biblical law

you already have the quote from Phil Robertson saying covert or die

maybe the girl on the left would draw the line at being a suicide bomber but then again you never know

You're basing your entire opinion on aesthetics.   Tell me about them as individuals and what they've done.  How are they similar?  Do you have information about them or did you just grab the picture from online?   
A

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2014, 01:40:12 PM »
You're basing your entire opinion on aesthetics.   Tell me about them as individuals and what they've done.  How are they similar?  Do you have information about them or did you just grab the picture from online?   

I don't either one and neither do you

for all we know they are both models

you know exactly what I'm talking about so stop playing dumb

tell me what is different about Phil Robertson saying we should convert or kill Muslims as compared to Muslims saying they should convert or kill christians?

same mindset just a different religion

as I've said, if our society was broken down like it is in Syria and Iraq I don't think it would take too long for the Phil Robertsons of the world to pull out his bible (he said on Hannity he never leaves home without it) and start enforcing biblical law......as he sees it.

If you don't understand what I'm saying then there is no other way for me to explain it to you or at least it's not worth my time to try

Archer77

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2014, 01:47:06 PM »
I don't either one and neither do you

for all we know they are both models

you know exactly what I'm talking about so stop playing dumb

tell me what is different about Phil Robertson saying we should convert or kill Muslims as compared to Muslims saying they should convert or kill christians?

same mindset just a different religion

as I've said, if our society was broken down like it is in Syria and Iraq I don't think it would take too long for the Phil Robertsons of the world to pull out his bible (he said on Hannity he never leaves home without it) and start enforcing biblical law......as he sees it.

If you don't understand what I'm saying then there is no other way for me to explain it to you or at least it's not worth my time to try

Your opinion is based on sweeping generalizations and scenarios that haven't or may never happen? 
A

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2014, 01:51:48 PM »
I don't recall and Christians blowing themselves up, hijacking planes, taking down countries...beheading anybody on Utube etc....none. This argument is fucking stupid. You libs always always always do this...sorry guy but we're better then they are. America, the West, Christians, Jews...whatever. We're better. These people are animals.
L

Dos Equis

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2014, 01:57:32 PM »
I don't recall and Christians blowing themselves up, hijacking planes, taking down countries...beheading anybody on Utube etc....none. This argument is fucking stupid. You libs always always always do this...sorry guy but we're better then they are. America, the West, Christians, Jews...whatever. We're better. These people are animals.

I agree.  Stupid argument. 

Straw Man

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Re: Obama : ISIL is not Islamic.
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2014, 01:58:04 PM »
Your opinion is based on sweeping generalizations and scenarios that haven't or may never happen? 

both Christians and Muslims believe in the 2nd coming of Jesus and global fight with the anti christ

that is not my opinion but a fact

I've given you examples of modern day christians espousing violence in the name of Jesus and I'm we can agree we have an abundance of examples from the Muslim side

I've given you examples of violence committed by christians in this country which were the direct result of their religious beliefs

I'd be happy to have some of our fundies  jump in and tell our their vision for the armageddon taken right out of the book written by a bunch of mostly anonymous men that they believe is the word of their god.  Again, remind yourself how much of that includes infractions punishable by death.....starting with working on the Sabbath which I'll bet every christian on this board has done at one time or another
it wasn't that log again that catholics were burning people at the stake.

how many christians today will tell your that our secular government is an insult to their god?
how about gay marriage.  You know they think that is an insult to their god.   I could give you many more examples but I'm about to hit the road and can't text any more