More witnesses that Brown had his hands up in Ferguson shooting

[240 is Back]

it's been almost a month now... no police report yet?

These witnesses (contractors on the scene that announced right after the shooting he had his hands up) are a lot more credible because they said it right after it happened - these aren't fake witnesses invented by liberals.  These are WORKING americans (so I'll assume republican) that said this same thing right after shooting.

I tend to lean toward believing the police version of the story - but we don't have that yet, do we?  We only have the "leaked" pieces, such as the false broken orbital bone, where anonymous sources leak it to FOX news? 

Well, given the audio recordings showing 2 groups of shots... and numerous witnesses saying his hands were up... I'll be really happy when the police dept finally gives us their account of the shooting.  Not leaked to FOX, but a full report.  Usually when a shoot is clean and justified, we hear it quickly, as in the St Louis shooting where we had a report in 2 days.  A month? 

New Michael Brown Witnesses Speak Out: He Had His Hands Up


Source: Mediaite/CNN

CNN spoke with two new witnesses to Michael Brown‘s shooting; two unnamed contractors, both of whom were recorded on video taken right after the shooting, shouting about how Brown had his hands up.

One of the contractors recounted how he heard a shot, then another 30 seconds later, and then witnessed Brown staggering as he put his hands up. But instead of telling him to get on the ground, he says, Officer Darren Wilson just shot him.

The other contractor said he saw Brown running from the police car, Wilson chasing him, and firing at Brown while his back was turned.

This account fits with an account told by another witness who spoke out weeks ago about the shooting.

Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/new-michael-brown-witnesses-speak-out-he-had-his-hands-up/

[240 is Back]

These witnesses are particularly credible because their words came right after it happened.

Zero chance to be motivated by politics, money, claim to fame, etc.

They didn't know Brown, have no connection to his mess, nor to the police.  Just two working man who were very upset that a person with their hands up was shot by police as they stood watching.


It is starting to make sense now.   I understand why the department has been mum.  They're giving the shooter time to get his affairs in order, prepare a narrative to keep him out of jail once all the witnesses and recordings com forward.  A simple narrative of "he attacked, I fired" would be ideal for the cop.  However, evidence now says otherwise.

[Skip8282]

It's all on the prosecutor at this point and he can manipulate the grand jury to do whatever he wants.

[240 is Back]

It's all on the prosecutor at this point and he can manipulate the grand jury to do whatever he wants.

I think only someone with TRULY pre-conceived beliefs of what happens here would discount what we have here.

First hand witnesses  - with zero influence - right after the shooting.  They were right there, saw it all, and said the same thing. 

It's not about black/white.  Or crime/justice.  It's about the LAW.   If dude was surrendering with hands up, if he whooped the cop and was done and cop finally regrouped and executed him when the threat was done - this isn't something to argue.  This isn't something to debate.  it's very clear cut. 

I dont think prosecutor judgment matters here - it's looking a LOT like cop shot a dude who wasn't committing the assault, who had hands up, who was giving up.   Cop punished him.  I can understand the human element of it - face hurting bad and finally got to his gun and he's not going to be mocked for the rest of his career for getting punked like that.   Maybe you don't charge him - maybe he was disoriented, etc.  But he can't carry a gun and do police work anymore, no way.  workers on scene, compeltely neutral, saying it was an execution.  compare that to "partial" police leaks?  No FCKING police report after a month, lol, that says a lot...
 

[George Whorewell]

I think only someone with TRULY pre-conceived beliefs of what happens here would discount what we have here.

First hand witnesses  - with zero influence - right after the shooting.  They were right there, saw it all, and said the same thing. 

It's not about black/white.  Or crime/justice.  It's about the LAW.   If dude was surrendering with hands up, if he whooped the cop and was done and cop finally regrouped and executed him when the threat was done - this isn't something to argue.  This isn't something to debate.  it's very clear cut. 

I dont think prosecutor judgment matters here - it's looking a LOT like cop shot a dude who wasn't committing the assault, who had hands up, who was giving up.   Cop punished him.  I can understand the human element of it - face hurting bad and finally got to his gun and he's not going to be mocked for the rest of his career for getting punked like that.   Maybe you don't charge him - maybe he was disoriented, etc.  But he can't carry a gun and do police work anymore, no way.  workers on scene, compeltely neutral, saying it was an execution.  compare that to "partial" police leaks?  No FCKING police report after a month, lol, that says a lot...
 

Slow evening at the trailer park?

[Shockwave]

Meh, dont care. Plenty of cases of legit police abuse out there, rather than this race baiting nonsense.

[240 is Back]

Meh, dont care. Plenty of cases of legit police abuse out there, rather than this race baiting nonsense.

I dont give a shit about race.  I give a shit about cops executing people that are trying to surrender because they took a whooping.  I took an ass whooping at the mall once when I was 22, managed not to shoot the punk in the head twice, I just got out of there.  Kept it holstered.  Hoping the cop could use his radio/taser/etc before emptying his gun into the head of a dude with his hands in the air.

[Shockwave]

I dont give a shit about race.  I give a shit about cops executing people that are trying to surrender because they took a whooping.  I took an ass whooping at the mall once when I was 22, managed not to shoot the punk in the head twice, I just got out of there.  Kept it holstered.  Hoping the cop could use his radio/taser/etc before emptying his gun into the head of a dude with his hands in the air.

The only reason you even heard about this case is because of race.

Sorry, theres 100x worse abuses of police authority to get legitimatley upset about, this one only became what it did because someone pulled the race card. Why arent you in the police state thread freaking out over the dozens of horrendous abuses?

Oh, yeah, because theres no conspiracy/racial aspect to get everyone all wound up, so it holds no interest to you.

[240 is Back]

Sorry, theres 100x worse abuses of police authority to get legitimatley upset about,

An unarmed American with his hands up, surrendering according to workers on the scene, was shot 6+ times, including TWO headshots - one from ABOVE.

You know of examples 100 times worse than this?  LOL, please share them.

[Shockwave]

An unarmed American with his hands up, surrendering according to workers on the scene, was shot 6+ times, including TWO headshots - one from ABOVE.

You know of examples 100 times worse than this?  LOL, please share them.

Go read the police state thread. There are dozens of examples.

How about a infant getting a flashbang in the face in his crib on a wrongful search, burning the ever loving shit iut of it? Granny getting shot to death during a wrongful drug raid? I could go on and on.

The fact that youre latching on to this with no knowledge of the literally dozens of more egregious examples ON THIS BOARD proves my point... youre only in tbis for the controversy, so go ahead and thank Mr. Sharpton for giving you something to feed on.

[JOHN MATRIX]

Meh, dont care. Plenty of cases of legit police abuse out there, rather than this race baiting nonsense.

[Dos Equis]

it's been almost a month now... no police report yet?

These witnesses (contractors on the scene that announced right after the shooting he had his hands up) are a lot more credible because they said it right after it happened - these aren't fake witnesses invented by liberals.  These are WORKING americans (so I'll assume republican) that said this same thing right after shooting.

I tend to lean toward believing the police version of the story - but we don't have that yet, do we?  We only have the "leaked" pieces, such as the false broken orbital bone, where anonymous sources leak it to FOX news? 

Well, given the audio recordings showing 2 groups of shots... and numerous witnesses saying his hands were up... I'll be really happy when the police dept finally gives us their account of the shooting.  Not leaked to FOX, but a full report.  Usually when a shoot is clean and justified, we hear it quickly, as in the St Louis shooting where we had a report in 2 days.  A month? 

New Michael Brown Witnesses Speak Out: He Had His Hands Up


Source: Mediaite/CNN

CNN spoke with two new witnesses to Michael Brown‘s shooting; two unnamed contractors, both of whom were recorded on video taken right after the shooting, shouting about how Brown had his hands up.

One of the contractors recounted how he heard a shot, then another 30 seconds later, and then witnessed Brown staggering as he put his hands up. But instead of telling him to get on the ground, he says, Officer Darren Wilson just shot him.

The other contractor said he saw Brown running from the police car, Wilson chasing him, and firing at Brown while his back was turned.

This account fits with an account told by another witness who spoke out weeks ago about the shooting.

Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/new-michael-brown-witnesses-speak-out-he-had-his-hands-up/

Troll.

I think the shoot was LEGAL (barring any bullet in the back in the autopsy)
But I think police changing story about such an item (in order to quell rioting?) is BULLSHIT.
I thought we'd agree on both of these points, tony.  It's completely possible to hate rioting idiots AND hate lying cops.

[LurkerNoMore]

Most likely the only reason he had his hands up was because his efforts to grab the cops gun didn't pan out.  He was thinking "oh shit, maybe I get a do over?"

Then again, who really knows.

[240 is Back]

I did think the shoot was legal.  I put my faith in the police department's "leaks" about it.

Now it's been a month.  The police are silent, probably letting the shooter get his legal defense ready and seeing what witnesses and recorded evidence emerges.  

It's really a shame when police pull the obama route, and avoid transparency.  You can bet if the shoot was 100% perfectly legal, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.  

[240 is Back]

Most likely the only reason he had his hands up was because he efforts to grab the cops gun didn't pan out.  He was thinking "oh shit, maybe I get a do over?"

Then again, who really knows.

it sounds like he punched the cop silly, tried to get gun, FAILed, and then ran.  When cop yelled freeze, he spun around with hands up, as the construction worker witnesses stated. 

the cop, with a broken up face, emerged from the car in a shitload of pain.  He saw the punk who did it, and he was angry and embarassed and he made a human move, he reacted in anger and shot him... even giving him a headshot to make sure.  it's a human, explainable move... but he can't be a cop anymore IF he delivered bullets as punishment.

[tonymctones]

Go read the police state thread. There are dozens of examples.

How about a infant getting a flashbang in the face in his crib on a wrongful search, burning the ever loving shit iut of it? Granny getting shot to death during a wrongful drug raid? I could go on and on.

The fact that youre latching on to this with no knowledge of the literally dozens of more egregious examples ON THIS BOARD proves my point... youre only in tbis for the controversy, so go ahead and thank Mr. Sharpton for giving you something to feed on.

WHAAABBBAAAMMMM!!!!!

[24KT]

Go read the police state thread. There are dozens of examples.

How about a infant getting a flashbang in the face in his crib on a wrongful search, burning the ever loving shit iut of it? Granny getting shot to death during a wrongful drug raid? I could go on and on.

The fact that youre latching on to this with no knowledge of the literally dozens of more egregious examples ON THIS BOARD proves my point... youre only in tbis for the controversy, so go ahead and thank Mr. Sharpton for giving you something to feed on.

Seriously Shockwave, forget race. Substitute Michael Bown for Winklevoss or any name you can think of.

Are you telling me that you think that a mistake, where the victim lives, or even dies, is far worse than the deliberate execution? Is that what you're saying? ...because if you are, I think you're the only one succumbing to manipulation... that of the corrupt, subversive elements on the Ferguson PD.

The only way one can possibly see an honest mistake wherein the victim is hurt, but not killed as being worse that the deliberate execution of a child surrendering to law enforcement, by law enforcement, is if you have removed your brain, or had it removed for you. Congratulations on becoming a zombie; part of the walking dead, ...mentally, spiritually, ethically, and emotionally. (Well maybe not emotionally, ...you do get a little pissy every now & then) The deliberate smear campaign again the victim has clearly succeeded with you, despite it's pretty obvious & sloppy execution. Throw enough shit out there to muddy the waters, demonize the victim to such an extent as to create a sense of apathy in some, and prompting idiots to want to give the executioner a medal. Congratulations to those who can officially classify themselves as brain-dead. I truly fear for you Americans... the comeuppance and karmic retribution is going to be spectacular for those who have the stomach for such carnage. Maybe you ought to take a look at the carnage going on over in Syria, ...cause that is on it's way to your doors. Except it won't be crazy religious extremists, ...it will be jack-booted sociopaths dressed in blue. I'm pretty sure you will not be high enough on the food chain to escape it. 

[catracho]

Seriously Shockwave, forget race. Substitute Michael Bown for Winklevoss or any name you can think of.

Are you telling me that you think that a mistake, where the victim lives, or even dies, is far worse than the deliberate execution? Is that what you're saying? ...because if you are, I think you're the only one succumbing to manipulation... that of the corrupt, subversive elements on the Ferguson PD.

The only way one can possibly see an honest mistake wherein the victim is hurt, but not killed as being worse that the deliberate execution of a child surrendering to law enforcement, by law enforcement, is if you have removed your brain, or had it removed for you. Congratulations on becoming a zombie; part of the walking dead, ...mentally, spiritually, ethically, and emotionally. (Well maybe not emotionally, ...you do get a little pissy every now & then) The deliberate smear campaign again the victim has clearly succeeded with you, despite it's pretty obvious & sloppy execution. Throw enough shit out there to muddy the waters, demonize the victim to such an extent as to create a sense of apathy in some, and prompting idiots to want to give the executioner a medal. Congratulations to those who can officially classify themselves as brain-dead. I truly fear for you Americans... the comeuppance and karmic retribution is going to be spectacular for those who have the stomach for such carnage. Maybe you ought to take a look at the carnage going on over in Syria, ...cause that is on it's way to your doors. Except it won't be crazy religious extremists, ...it will be jack-booted sociopaths dressed in blue. I'm pretty sure you will not be high enough on the food chain to escape it. 

Pa. State Police identify trooper killed in ambush

BLOOMING GROVE, Pa. (AP) — A late-night ambush outside a state police barracks in Pennsylvania's rural northeastern corner left one trooper dead and another critically wounded, and authorities scoured the densely wooded countryside and beyond on Saturday looking for the shooter or shooters.

I bet you gonna rant if the police kill these guys too aren't you? 
http://news.yahoo.com/report-shooting-pennsylvania-police-barracks-081815207.html

[24KT]

Pa. State Police identify trooper killed in ambush

BLOOMING GROVE, Pa. (AP) — A late-night ambush outside a state police barracks in Pennsylvania's rural northeastern corner left one trooper dead and another critically wounded, and authorities scoured the densely wooded countryside and beyond on Saturday looking for the shooter or shooters.

I bet you gonna rant if the police kill these guys too aren't you? 
http://news.yahoo.com/report-shooting-pennsylvania-police-barracks-081815207.html

If they execute them while they're surrendering yep! Now I'll go read the sory.

[Skip8282]

I think only someone with TRULY pre-conceived beliefs of what happens here would discount what we have here.

First hand witnesses  - with zero influence - right after the shooting.  They were right there, saw it all, and said the same thing. 

It's not about black/white.  Or crime/justice.  It's about the LAW.   If dude was surrendering with hands up, if he whooped the cop and was done and cop finally regrouped and executed him when the threat was done - this isn't something to argue.  This isn't something to debate.  it's very clear cut. 

I dont think prosecutor judgment matters here - it's looking a LOT like cop shot a dude who wasn't committing the assault, who had hands up, who was giving up.   Cop punished him.  I can understand the human element of it - face hurting bad and finally got to his gun and he's not going to be mocked for the rest of his career for getting punked like that.   Maybe you don't charge him - maybe he was disoriented, etc.  But he can't carry a gun and do police work anymore, no way.  workers on scene, compeltely neutral, saying it was an execution.  compare that to "partial" police leaks?  No FCKING police report after a month, lol, that says a lot...
 

I'd agree in part.  Seems those who already have their minds made up are trying to avoid this.

But, the prosecutor's judgment is crucial.  He can show or not show evidence as he pleases.  He can manipulate them to a decision and this is not something that is 'hidden' or not widely known.

How the prosecutor uses their discretion will matter a lot.

[240 is Back]

But, the prosecutor's judgment is crucial.  He can show or not show evidence as he pleases.  He can manipulate them to a decision and this is not something that is 'hidden' or not widely known.

How the prosecutor uses their discretion will matter a lot.

See, I'm not automatically saying they should charge the cop with murder.  His face was smashed, his bell was rung, he was pissed and hurt and not thinking right, and he's human.  Maybe he does lose his shit and fire at the kid one he stands still (even with hands up) and he can see thru the blood in his grill.

So maybe it's manslaughter with special circumstances.   I mean, you reduce a man's ability to think by punching his face a bunch of times, you can't get mad if his reaction is to get a little extra-curricular with the firepower.

BUT - the dude shoudln't be a cop. Anymore.  Ever.  Move him to be a firefighter.  move him to a desk.  Move him to admin, IA, or wherever else.... but this man has shown he does NOT defer to his training one he gets punched, he turns into a cowboy.  Maybe he skates on this one, but let's make sure he isn't stopping jaywalkers next week, ya know?  

We ALL know, things don't usually happen in a vacuum, and most major actions have warnings and often repeat.  Zimmerman didn't shove a cop, hit a woman, chase/shoot a kid, beat an old man, and then ACCIDENTALLY threaten to kill a man in traffic... So this cop, if left on duty, will inevitably probably find himself in a similar situation again before long.  PLUS he's a target now - he needs his own security to work in that town, if/when it comes out he lost his shit and killed an unarmed kid with hands up for whooping his ten-years-older-ass moments earlier.  

Dude ain't built for police work, but probably not for prison either.

[Skip8282]

See, I'm not automatically saying they should charge the cop with murder.  His face was smashed, his bell was rung, he was pissed and hurt and not thinking right, and he's human.  Maybe he does lose his shit and fire at the kid one he stands still (even with hands up) and he can see thru the blood in his grill.

So maybe it's manslaughter with special circumstances.   I mean, you reduce a man's ability to think by punching his face a bunch of times, you can't get mad if his reaction is to get a little extra-curricular with the firepower.

BUT - the dude shoudln't be a cop. Anymore.  Ever.  Move him to be a firefighter.  move him to a desk.  Move him to admin, IA, or wherever else.... but this man has shown he does NOT defer to his training one he gets punched, he turns into a cowboy.  Maybe he skates on this one, but let's make sure he isn't stopping jaywalkers next week, ya know?   

We ALL know, things don't usually happen in a vacuum, and most major actions have warnings and often repeat.  Zimmerman didn't shove a cop, hit a woman, chase/shoot a kid, beat an old man, and then ACCIDENTALLY threaten to kill a man in traffic... So this cop, if left on duty, will inevitably probably find himself in a similar situation again before long.  PLUS he's a target now - he needs his own security to work in that town, if/when it comes out he lost his shit and killed an unarmed kid with hands up for whooping his ten-years-older-ass moments earlier. 

Dude ain't built for police work, but probably not for prison either.

Meh...at this point, there's just not enough (publically) to claim he shouldn't be a cop and he shouldn't be in prison.  Could very well be justified.  The fact that we don't know, however, does not change the influence that the prosecutor can exert on the process.

[24KT]

See, I'm not automatically saying they should charge the cop with murder.  His face was smashed, his bell was rung, he was pissed and hurt and not thinking right, and he's human.  Maybe he does lose his shit and fire at the kid one he stands still (even with hands up) and he can see thru the blood in his grill.

So maybe it's manslaughter with special circumstances.   I mean, you reduce a man's ability to think by punching his face a bunch of times, you can't get mad if his reaction is to get a little extra-curricular with the firepower.

BUT - the dude shoudln't be a cop. Anymore.  Ever.  Move him to be a firefighter.  move him to a desk.  Move him to admin, IA, or wherever else.... but this man has shown he does NOT defer to his training one he gets punched, he turns into a cowboy.  Maybe he skates on this one, but let's make sure he isn't stopping jaywalkers next week, ya know?  

We ALL know, things don't usually happen in a vacuum, and most major actions have warnings and often repeat.  Zimmerman didn't shove a cop, hit a woman, chase/shoot a kid, beat an old man, and then ACCIDENTALLY threaten to kill a man in traffic... So this cop, if left on duty, will inevitably probably find himself in a similar situation again before long.  PLUS he's a target now - he needs his own security to work in that town, if/when it comes out he lost his shit and killed an unarmed kid with hands up for whooping his ten-years-older-ass moments earlier.  

Dude ain't built for police work, but probably not for prison either.

That's your argument? Seriously?! I'm having a hard time even thinking you believe that, ...let alone sympathize with it, ...especially coming from a man who admits to having been previously beaten to a pulp, and STILL managed to keep his weapon holstered.

You were able to keep your weapon holstered, and take a beating from someone attacking you, ...but you expect us to think a cop shouldn't be expected to NOT pull the trigger on a kid with his hands up in the middle of surrendering?!

Nah... Sorry 240. I'm not buying it, ...and I secretly suspect you don't either.  

I don't go for this "They're only human" crutch. And that's all it is in my eyes... a crutch, and attempt to give the indefensible a leg to stand on. They are NOT "only human" like everyone else. If they were like everyone else, they wouldn't be given special priviledges or authority to enforce laws or serve & protect. We shouldn't have to pull over to the side of the road when they flash their cherries, and they wouldn't have authority to throw people behind bars. They are given much in the way of privilege & authority, ...and to whom much is given, ...MUCH IS REQUIRED!!! ...namely, a full accounting for how you exercise that power, and not executing kids in the street. Is that really too much to expect?!

#ExecuteTheLawsNotThePeople

[240 is Back]

That's your argument? Seriously?! I'm having a hard time even thinking you believe that, ...let alone sympathize with it, ...especially coming from a man who admits to having been previously beaten to a pulp, and STILL managed to keep his weapon holstered.

You were able to keep your weapon holstered, and take a beating from someone attacking you, ...but you expect us to think a cop shouldn't be expected to NOT pull the trigger on a kid with his hands up in the middle of surrendering?!

Nah... Sorry 240. I'm not buying it, ...and I secretly suspect you don't either. 

I'm just saying that shooting an unarmed kid who just smashed his face and punked him, should warrant less serious charges than say, a cop that dressed up as a ninja, waited in alley, and shot the kid on his way to do volunteer work at the soup kitchen. 

SOME leniency should be shown for the extenuating circumstances.  It was a crime suspect.  And physically, dude was way intimidating.  And the cop was a skinnyfat twink who couldn't scrap a lick.   And he did just smash the cop's face up.

So yeah, maybe i'm trying to find common ground with "let's go easy on the charges", if only because most people don't have that cool streak to back down when their face was throbbing, like mine was.  Sure, I wanted to put 11 .40 caliber rounds in that punk's gut, and I probably would have walked... but you don't just kill people like that lol.  Gotta be smarter than that. 

So he should get at least charged with someone so he can't carry a gun again. Ever.  He killed a man when he lost his shit after a fight, basically.  can't be a cop, shouldn't have that right... give him 2 to 6 years, let him apologize, etc.    There is that small window after you attack someone for no reason, and smash their face, where their mind isn't 100%, and while MINE was, the cop took a worse beating than me.

So I'm saying the shooting victim bears some of that blame too.  Cop didn't shoot him for jaywalking, the cop shot him for beating the shit out of him.  So that'd shave some years off.  Shoot him doing nothing, I say give the cop 40 years in prison.  But this?  Kid did commin felony assault, and busted the decision-making part of the cop (the brain lol).  So yeah, I'm fine with some prison time, but nothing like he'd see for stalking and shooting the kid in study hall.

[240 is Back]

BUT BUT BUT all of that means - it means people have to admit the cop FUCKED UP by shooting the kid.

Yes, his head was ringing, nose bleeding, his shit was hurting, so yeah, we show leniency.

BUT getbiggers have to admit the cop DID waste an unarmed kid, and SHOULD no longer be a cop, and maybe see some time.   They gotta give that.  NOBODY here should say it's cool to execute someone at 20 feet who is unarmed and no longer attacking.