After Yesterday`s "No One" Machine Workout...

[Vince B]

Ok, fair enough. As far as hypertrophy, though, do you believe there is a single, unbending scientific law that dictates how a muscle grows for everyone, without exception?

Generally speaking, yes! It has to be otherwise it isn't the optimal method for hypertrophy. The right theory has to explain all growth....and non growth from serious training.

As long as the other conditions for hypertrophy are met, namely, adequate rest and sufficient nutrients are ingested to gain weight and muscle.

[The True Adonis]

My uncle owns a roofing and construction company and the employees run the gamut. A few look very strong and muscular but there are a lot that are fat and out of shape with very little muscular development. A classic case of just counting the hits but not the (majority) of misses. Same reason why people think a full moon influences aberrant behavior. People act crazy everyday but when it happens to be a full moon they look up into the sky and say, "See!"

It would stand to reason the construction workers would be on average stronger and more muscular than the average person but not because they do construction. It's just that if you are a weakling you are not going into a profession that requires you to be physically robust. It's like saying playing basketball makes you tall.

Most roofers use nail guns anyways.  The best roofers are the short little Mexicans that can run and up down ladders like nobody`s business.  They also are the ones that can literally stand with their back facing the edge of the gutter on an extreme slope without an ounce of fear.  Crazy to see in person really.

[pellius]

What qualifies as "proof" anyways?  He came up with it, found that it worked well for him & others, and shared it with us. 

Huh? Proof would be progress and advancement. If he claims that this program enhances muscle hypertrophy than if say, for instance, TA should marked increase in muscular development I would consider this proof. It's the same elementary concept of the before and after pics so ubiquitous today.

Again, I have no problem with No One sharing his findings.

[pellius]

thanks for sharing.

enjoy mediocrity.

Again, not addressing the argument itself. Just a personal attack.

Last I checked you were nothing special.

[pellius]

Ok, fair enough. As far as hypertrophy, though, do you believe there is a single, unbending scientific law that dictates how a muscle grows for everyone, without exception?

As far as general principles yes. How could a field such as medical science exist? It's the specifics that's the rub.

Antibiotics cures a bacterial infection for virtually everyone. What antibiotic is used matters some. I'm allergic to pennicillin. But the principle of using antibiotic applies to everyone.

We are unique in specifics but biologically we are identical. Carbon base life froms, use oxygen, heart, lungs, process carbs, proteins and fats....

[The Ugly]

Generally speaking, yes! It has to be otherwise it isn't the optimal method for hypertrophy. The right theory has to explain all growth....and non growth from serious training.

As long as the other conditions for hypertrophy are met, namely, adequate rest and sufficient nutrients are ingested to gain weight and muscle.

So how do we explain comparable results from guys using complete opposite methods? Yates and Dillet, say: heavy, intense, brief, infrequent vs. light, lazy, long, and  frequent. And both, if I recall, weren't lifting increasingly heavier, so no new stimulus resistance-wise. Yet both monstrous. Shouldn't this be impossible if we're talking about a scientific law?

[no one]

Point well taken. No One is an intelligent and thinking person. I just get turned off a bit by the arrogance.

your mistaking not letting someone walk on me, or not putting up with bullshit as arrogance.

I'm one of the most humble / non attention seeking guys you will ever meet. ffs I went to the opening of drais pool in LV Memorial Day weekend and kept my shirt on all day. only guy in the place prolly to do so.

I stand by my convictions. that's not arrogance. that's confidence.

as to you other post I know I'm nothing special. I have admitted freely on this forum several times in the past I have shitty genetics. lol something special? that's funny. that's prolly more of a reflection of how you perceive me than anything.

so listen here. 99% of people in gyms around the world are 'nothing special'. they just love to train. the whys are individualistic. I'm one of those 99%. that doesn't mean I'm going to sit on my ass and not be the best I can be cause I got dealt a shit hand genetically- just like pretty much everyone reading this post. and if I can help someone who wants to be better and help them be better despite being 'nothing special' I'm more than fucking happy to do so.

lol 'nothing special' fuck you and your 'special'- I'm one the 99% who busts his ass every day and is proud of it and happy to do so and I wouldn't change it if I could cause I fucking earned every ounce of tissue I have.

[The True Adonis]

The few days into it I am still feeling pumped continually and extremely tight and extremely sore.  Keep in mind I am not coming off any layoff from the gym (never have had one) and have been continually working out, hard.  Its funny to think, that I have reduced my workout time by 30-50 minutes but am feeling it MUCH, MUCH more.  Keep in mind its the same workout that I had been doing.   I am keeping track of my progress and will be adjusting calories accordingly.  

[Vince B]

Which I think is what the No One Machine Method really excels at vs. a lot of the other workouts out there.

I am not buying it. No one suggests using maybe a few seconds between sets which he says is virtually no rest. Well, what is the purpose of doing that? To cause the body to adapt?

Well, why bother with endurance unless it helps you grow bigger muscles. To me big muscles are good for lifting reasonably heavy poundages for many reps (5 to 50 but usually 10 to 20) over and over and over again.

If you look at what almost all large bodybuilders do you find they do about 10 to 20 sets for a body part. Some do several movements but it is still putting mechanical tension on those muscles for that many sets.

We can conclude that this is what is required for building large muscles. Milos Sarcev advocates moving quickly between different exercises for the same body part as giant sets. So there are many 'equivalent' ways to

achieve hypertrophy. We can think of all the methods as being the wide part of a funnel. Everyone has to reach the narrow part of the funnel where the muscles are pumped, shaking and spent. There is no easy way

to get there but many paths to the same state where a training effect resulting in hypertrophy is present. Exactly how long before you train the same muscles has been determined to be 2 to 4 days. Once you know

what generated the maximum amount of hypertrophy each week you don't waver. If the body needs X gms of protein for maximum muscle growth is there any point in ingesting 2X? To me that is foolish, expensive and wasteful

because the excess protein will be converted to energy for the body. If training every third day is optimal for maximum growth (I am not stating this is actually determined) then there is no point training more frequently. A serious

consideration here is the possibility of injuries to connective tissue. The best method for building muscles had better be a safe one because once connective tissue is damaged that can be permanent or limit training in the future.

Yes, the muscles can adapt to daily severe training but can sustained daily extreme training be good for the connective tissue? This I rather doubt. This is another reason for the 3rd day cycle.

[no one]

My uncle owns a roofing and construction company and the employees run the gamut. A few look very strong and muscular but there are a lot that are fat and out of shape with very little muscular development. A classic case of just counting the hits but not the (majority) of misses. Same reason why people think a full moon influences aberrant behavior. People act crazy everyday but when it happens to be a full moon they look up into the sky and say, "See!"

It would stand to reason the construction workers would be on average stronger and more muscular than the average person but not because they do construction. It's just that if you are a weakling you are not going into a profession that requires you to be physically robust. It's like saying playing basketball makes you tall.

fuck me read my posts properly before you rebuttal.

your in such a fucking hurry to throw me under the bus your comprehension is lacking.

roofers forearms before automatic nailers. not their fucking physiques. the muscle group the most often used repetitively. outstanding forearms.

your in such a fucking hurry to discredit me your making yourself look stupid.

you don't 'like' me. I get it. I'm not here for you.

carry on.

[The Ugly]

your mistaking not letting someone walk on me, or not putting up with bullshit as arrogance.

I'm one of the most humble / non attention seeking guys you will ever meet. ffs I went to the opening of drais pool in LV Memorial Day weekend and kept my shirt on all day. only guy in the place prolly to do so.

I stand by my convictions. that's not arrogance. that's confidence.

as to you other post I know I'm nothing special. I have admitted freely on this forum several times in the past I have shitty genetics. lol some funny special? that's funny. that's prolly more of a reflection of how you perceive me than anything.

so listen here. 99% of people in gyms around the world are 'nothing special'. they just love to train. the whys are individualistic. I'm one of those 99%. that doesn't mean I'm going to sit on my ass and not be the best I can be cause I got dealt a shit hand genetically- just like pretty much everyone reading this post. and if I can help someone who wants to be better and help them be better despite being 'nothing special' I'm more than fucking happy to do so.

lol 'nothing special' fuck you and your 'special'- I'm one the 99% who busts his ass every day and is proud of it and happy to do so and I wouldn't change it if I could cause I fucking earned every ounce of tissue I have.

If the pics are really you, that's pretty damn special for your age. The attack is purely personal.

[O.Z.]

You have never been able to make the progress that you claim "should" put an inch on muscle groups. You remember how I outlined the routine that transformed my calves on IronAge from that polio look to my most impressive body part (admittedly a low standard).

Can you outline that routine again, thanks.

[no one]

If the pics are really you, that's pretty damn special for your age. The attack is purely personal.

they're me.

since I'm in an advise dispensing mood today I have some for pellius.

instead of bitching and crying about me trying to help people cause you find my personality abrasive get off your fucking ass and start your own thread and help people out.

the fuck is your problem? is this highschool? this a fucking popularity contest to you? this is called the free exchange of ideas and discussion for the betterment of those who wish to apply the ideas discussed.

how the fuck can you sit there and say to me 'it won't work?' even basille said he almost went to the idea of training everyday but 'conventional wisdom' stopped him.

I didn't let it stop me and what I found was rewarding. instead of crying about it get off your ass for 12 weeks and follow it to a T. if the adaptations that I said will happen don't take place then come back and bitch. until then shut the fuck up.

pretty simple concept.

[Marty Champions]

Finaly best way to train

[The Ugly]

they're me.

since I'm in an advise dispensing mood today I have some for pellius.

instead of bitching and crying about me trying to help people cause you find my personality abrasive get off your fucking ass and start your own thread and help people out.

the fuck is your problem? is this highschool? this a fucking popularity contest to you? this is called the free exchange of ideas and discussion for the betterment of those who wish to apply the ideas discussed.

how the fuck can you sit there and say to me 'it won't work?' even basille said he almost went to the ideas if training everyday but 'conventional wisdom' stopped him.

I didn't let it stop me and what I found was rewarding. I start of crying about it get off your ass for 12 weeks and follow it to a T. if the adaptations that I said will happen don't take place then come back and bitch. until then shut the fuck up.

pretty simple concept.

Not sure about the age difference, but I've seen pics of you both. Our Hawaiian brother's got huge balls criticizing your physique is all I gotta say.

[Vince B]

Conventional wisdom didn't stop me! I just didn't get around to doing it. I figured I would need some preparation before proceeding with such an extreme protocol.

My reasoning went something like this. Suppose when humans were much more primitive a hunter set out one day to find an animal for food. Suppose he had to

battle that animal but didn't succeed. He was left bruised and battered. The next day he awoke all sore from the effort. Would he be able to repeat that effort and

find food? Well, if humans couldn't have adapted to such ordeals then they wouldn't have survived. So, I concluded our ancestors would have been able to battle

even if sore. That led me to retraining a muscle group while sore. It worked. What I worry about are injuries. As one progresses in hypertrophy the muscles grow

and so does the strength. If you experience rapid hypertrophy then your strength improves rapidly as well. This is where things can get dangerous and sometimes

the muscles tear or the connective tissue gets damaged. So any system had better be a safe one. That is what worries me about daily training of the same muscles.

If we look at champion swimmers we discover that they train daily. How on earth did they adapt? When did they adapt? During the lead up to meets where they

tapered off? Also, even if champion swimmers can improve times by training daily does this mean that is the optimal frequency? I doubt it but there you are.

Lots of different methods have come and gone over the past 75 years in the Iron Game. What has evolved is the frequency of training a muscle twice a week.

10 to 20 sets and 8 to 15 reps. That pretty much sums up what the champions do. Goodness knows how distorted thing have become because of the steroids, etc.

Perhaps we can't use the pros any more to determine optimal protocols and frequency for naturals?

Pellius has given good information before. No one has attacked him in this thread so I can understand the comments Pellius made in return.

[Vince B]

The few days into it I am still feeling pumped continually and extremely tight and extremely sore.  Keep in mind I am not coming off any layoff from the gym (never have had one) and have been continually working out, hard.  Its funny to think, that I have reduced my workout time by 30-50 minutes but am feeling it MUCH, MUCH more.  Keep in mind its the same workout that I had been doing.   I am keeping track of my progress and will be adjusting calories accordingly.

This is all consistent with conventional hypertrophy theory. Time is a factor in increasing intensity of effort. You have shortened your time considerably so is it any wonder you are sore? Plus, just about any extreme method will achieve the same state following a lay off. The interesting thing is you reduced the resistance. Well, you had to reduce the resistance to complete the protocol.

Reminds me of a story about a young couple who wanted me to put them through a calf workout. I did a simple progression down the weight stack doing each weight for 5 reps. No rest, move the pin down one plate and do 5 more reps and continue until you can't complete the 5 reps. Rest 10 seconds then do the same weight for 10 reps or as many as you can do. Then reduce the weight by one plate and do 5 reps and continue until you are back to where you started. That is it. Just one big ascending and descending set. Well, the next day they had trouble getting out of bed. The husband had to carry his wife to the car and then to work where she could sit down. They were seasoned trainees so I didn't expect that much soreness. So it does show how easy it is to generate DOMS in people unused to certain extreme routines especially ones with little rest between sets.

[calfzilla]

As long as the system makes the pussies wet 

[Vince B]

Euterpe, it is always refreshing to hear the opinion of a genuine authority.

[The Ugly]

Euterpe, it is always refreshing to hear the opinion of a genuine authority.

Would you consider yourself an authority?

[visualizeperfection]

the fuck are you so concerned about endless hypertrophy? you missed a crucial point to this system, or you simply don't give a fuck; lean, dense tissue, endurance, adaptation, athleticism > strength, 'big muscles'

i'm natty and have been doing this 4 months. and i'm bigger AND denser AND leaner. so there goes your theory, einstein.

'a pic is worth a thousand words' type of reasoning; why aren't the words of the people who have success doing this proof enough? like TA started this what, two days ago? that's really good for him, i hope he keeps it up. there are people who have been doing it for months. pay attention.

don't sell yourself short.

i'm certainly 'nothing special' either, and have considerable obstacles convoluting my training. does this have anything to do with this system? no. the system still works.
endurance provides a competitive advantage for ATHLETES. obviously something you have no idea about.

fuck this is the stupidest question i've seen.

nope. this is the stupidest question.

You do need to remember this is a bodybuilding forum.

Not an athleticism forum.




hypertrophy, drugs, anal sex, shredded 20's are more important than "being, looking, and feeling...healthy"


 

[Var City]

I tried dat none workouts yo today namsayn! Shits works like for reals not even on some tuck tail frog bitch type tip tho nom/say

[cephissus]

the real question is, why is no one talking to himself

[orion]

This routine is just a rehash of Ellington Darden's HIT from 30 years ago. Nothing revolutionary here.

[Var City]

i've been trying the "noone" technique on my dick daily and even sometimes two a days for about.. sixteen years

roughly the same amount of time since noone was able to get an erection without viagra