After Yesterday`s "No One" Machine Workout...

[The Ugly]

Jesus, if it were all this complicated I never would have started.

[pellius]

Now you didn't exactly tell him to get his shinebox, but you insulted him a little bit. You got a little bit out of order yourself.... I'm sorry. You insulted him a little bit.

Lets recap: Never did I initially address No One or his training protocol. I am very well aware of his writings and some of his contributions on hormones and peptides are invaluable. But when it comes to training protocols I tend to take it with a grain of salt because, as Vince also pointed out, he is a long time, experience, heavy user of hormones. That mucks everything up in regard to training and nutrition.

The only reason I even opened this thread is because it was started by TA. I did see No One's previous thread regarding his "new" training discovery but didn't even bother to read it for reasons just stated. Now with TA it's different. Although I believe he has experimented with AAS I believe he has been clean for many years and for all practical purposes a "natural". Despite some of our differences I find him to be a rational and thinking person. So when he says something I tend to pay attention. When it comes to training and nutrition I take him more seriously than I do No One even though TA is not even in the same league physique-wise as No One.

So when I hear him praising this new program I am less interested in subjective feelings and evaluations such as body warmth and a "pumped up" feeling throughout the day. I want to see real quantitative and qualitative reasons. Specifically, is he experiencing real lean muscle growth?  Presumably that is what the goal is.
Again, I did not address No One and didn't even have him in mind. But it was No One who decided to attack me.

"lol fuck you guys are dense. I give you something that will 100% change the way you look in less than 9 weeks and you want pics.
pics?
I got something better than pics for you. it's advise. you ready?
don't do it. no sweat off my balls."

Advise from someone who has achieved nothing in competitive bodybuilding is better than real world proof? Really? Do you agree with that?

He then advised TA not to post pics as if it was some kind of trap. He also sarcastically told me to enjoy my "mediocrity" which seems to imply that my sense of self-worth and self-esteemed stems from how big my muscles are. Continuing the meltdown, he cries that I don't like him, I'm throwing him under the bus and trying to undermine him.

All because I wanted to see progress pics which is probably the most common way all physique enhancements and fitness programs use to prove the efficacy of their programs.

[pellius]

I told both Luke Wood and Milos Sarcev I could help them get bigger arms. Luke died before he had a chance. Milos was angry when he read that but we sorted things out.

His training is somewhat like what no one recommends. I prefer longer rests and heavier resistance. I doubt whether lighter weights can build huge arms.

From the photo of no one I can see he has the potential for larger arms, especially triceps. Well, if he used my machines and equipment and followed my

protocols he should gain some size within a month. Half inch at least and maybe more. These guys never show up at my gym to see what I could do for

them.

But Vince, you tried yourself. You started a whole thread about your quest to get bigger arms and to exceed your 1970's condition despite your advancement in age. You failed miserably. You claimed it was because of injuries. Of course it is! That's because you're old. Being prone to injuries is one of the limitations that advance age renders.
I cannot achieve the levels of condition and muscular size that I did 20 years ago because my body won't allow it. It breaks down first. It happens to everybody.

[pellius]

what in the fuck are you talking about. lol holy fuck. re read what i just enbolded and please tell me where i said anything about roofers getting into roofing because they big forearms.
 
are you fucking kidding me? like how is someone this stupid.

like im not even going to bother explaining myself for the THIRD fucking time.

you say im emotional? dude its not emotion. its not being able to deal well with stupidity- its a trait a lot of intelligent people have in common- they become easily frustrated w stupidity.

are you on painkillers? this is serious question and would explain a lot.

You seem incapable of responding with melting down and pounding your spoon in your high chair. You implied that roofers had big forearms because they were roofers pounding nails all day. I disagree.

Take a deep breath and try to keep up. Better spelling and grammar would help. For someone who aspires to be a writer and considers himself intelligent because of his impatience with others that do not match his level of brilliance you do leave a lot to be desired.

[pellius]

hey vince im glad to see you posting here yet. i like your post about heavier resistance in relation to the size of the muscle. that makes sense to me. the reason i like to run the pump is that i find i get a much better response from training that way and i was what you'd call a heavy lifter for prolly 3/4's of my training career.

that being said my running the pump isnt curling 15lb dumbells. when i run the pump im reaching muscular fatigue every set. so, in that i think that the 'weight' being used is sufficent heavy to generate what results i desire. running the pump doesnt mean training lazy or light.

yes, that is me in that pic. and there are several other pics on this board of me.

what burns my ass about pellius asking for 'proof' is exactly what he touched on- in 10 years of posts regarding training, diet and anabolics usage i have never once had anyone stand up and say 'i followed that rountine/ that cycle advise/ that diet and its bullshit- it didnt work worth a fuck'. i have almost 800 pms in my inbox. i dont know how many of them are people i have never heard of thanking me and and saying 'i took your advise and its working'.

just like with everything else i have given advise about, i came here with this and i said this is a routine i invented. i said this is what you can expect to have happen over the x amount of weeks you are on it. i said this is the results it will manifest.

proof? what fucking more proof do you need? double blind studies? i did it. i walk the walk. i dont bullshit. i bust balls on here a lot but when it comes to solid advise im the straight goods.

this is all very frustrating for me. 10 years ive been trying to help people. and every single time i post something like this i gotta go thru the same fucking bullshit with the same fucking kind of small minded / closed minded people. naysayers critics and loudmouths. basically people who couldnt hold my fucking bag in the gym.

anyway vince the last part of this post isnt aimed at you. i think the discussion of all ideas often shapes and hones rough stones into brilliant diamonds. this could be no different. but to have guys pipe up about how this has been around forever, how it wont work, how you dont need this when they obviously havent even taken the time to read what the system entails, just a bunch of fat sloppy know it alls who havent broken 10%bf in the 10 years of doing the same routines sitting on their computer repeating the same bullshit i can find on any bbing board on the web.

like how the fuck can i not get frustrated.

Sorry that I "burn" and "frustrate" you. Perhaps you should focus on developing more coping skills than big muscles.

I don't know any of the people that have benefited from your program nor what else they are doing or using. It doesn't matter that it worked for you because you are a long time juicer. I am familiar with TA which is why I addressed him and only him. You weren't even on my radar until you started, and continue, your constant tantrums.

In this world not everyone is going to agree with you. You can defend yourself, ignore it, or get angry and frsutrated. You decided to get angry and frustrated. That's why I am taking you apart at will. Guys like you are tailor made for me in a debate or argument.

[pellius]

Vince, do you do the machine welding and all the design yourself or do you take your plans and someone does it for you?

Vince is a genius when it comes to developing gym equipment. It's really pity he couldn't find investors.

[no one]

there's no 'taking me apart' sunshine.

I look the way I do. you look the way you do.

that's your reality.

when I want to walk around looking like a 130 pound dried prune I'll look you up. I'm in the business of bettering myself. looking godly. improving my body and my performace. in doing so I'm sharing w others who might have the same goals.

I have no vested interest in you or anyone else wanting to try this. I could give a fuck what you 'think'. cause your basing your ignorant opinion on nothing other than speculation and a distain for my personality.

you see where 'win' and you 'lose' since that seems to be such a repeated motif in your posts is that it is everything I say it is. I'm going to keep improving that physique you see in the pics I've posted. your going to sit there crying abt how you don't like me.

who wins? lol

[The Ugly]

Lets recap: Never did I initially address No One or his training protocol. I am very well aware of his writings and some of his contributions on hormones and peptides are invaluable. But when it comes to training protocols I tend to take it with a grain of salt because, as Vince also pointed out, he is a long time, experience, heavy user of hormones. That mucks everything up in regard to training and nutrition.

The only reason I even opened this thread is because it was started by TA. I did see No One's previous thread regarding his "new" training discovery but didn't even bother to read it for reasons just stated. Now with TA it's different. Although I believe he has experimented with AAS I believe he has been clean for many years and for all practical purposes a "natural". Despite some of our differences I find him to be a rational and thinking person. So when he says something I tend to pay attention. When it comes to training and nutrition I take him more seriously than I do No One even though TA is not even in the same league physique-wise as No One.

So when I hear him praising this new program I am less interested in subjective feelings and evaluations such as body warmth and a "pumped up" feeling throughout the day. I want to see real quantitative and qualitative reasons. Specifically, is he experiencing real lean muscle growth?  Presumably that is what the goal is.
Again, I did not address No One and didn't even have him in mind. But it was No One who decided to attack me.

"lol fuck you guys are dense. I give you something that will 100% change the way you look in less than 9 weeks and you want pics.
pics?
I got something better than pics for you. it's advise. you ready?
don't do it. no sweat off my balls."

Advise from someone who has achieved nothing in competitive bodybuilding is better than real world proof? Really? Do you agree with that?

He then advised TA not to post pics as if it was some kind of trap. He also sarcastically told me to enjoy my "mediocrity" which seems to imply that my sense of self-worth and self-esteemed stems from how big my muscles are. Continuing the meltdown, he cries that I don't like him, I'm throwing him under the bus and trying to undermine him.

All because I wanted to see progress pics which is probably the most common way all physique enhancements and fitness programs use to prove the efficacy of their programs.

I didn't read any of this because it's way too long a response to my short, simple post. Again, this is what you said:

certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Nothing in those long response paragraphs can possibly make this a compliment, which is all I pointed out. Not interested in overwrought defenses, etc. I have the attention span of a nat ( and poor reading comprehension skills.

[Cleanest Natural]

The last pic I posted on here was in April and I leaned down way more, but couldn`t be really bothered or cared to take any more pics.  In fact, that is the last picture I have taken of myself I believe.  Its just something I don`t really do at all.  

haha still on hormones

Brutal wtf are shoes doing on the faux fireplace complete with a stuffed bird 

[no one]

a question of strength inside the system-

i recieved this question via pm and thought i'd post it here cause it raises and interesting question that im sure a lot of you will have and experience.

I was wondering if I can ask you a question.

Can you give me an idea of the kind of poundage's you have built up to doing the no one workouts with no rest?

As soon as I start going heavier with no rest it all fucks up and I just can't recover quick enough to do more than hitting the same body part for more than 3 times a week.

if I go way lighter then its ok and not a problem.

But I am trying to push myself to do the same thing but heavier and its not really working with no rest

peace

ya man your going to notice initially a drop in the weight your able to work with because the body hasnt adapted to the frequency yet.

what is important is the frequency at this time, or at any time, not the idea of weight. once the body adapts to the 7x a week, then the strength comes. in fact i was stronger thru all sets on a lot of exercises by week 12 than before i started the routine when i was at my 'strongest'.

the strength will come. focus on the frequency. thats where the money is-constantly pounding the fiber. resiliency. endurance. think of the examples of adaptation i mentioned- none involved increasing ones 'strength' to see the growth in the tissue. its entriely based on repetitive stress.

if your using enough weight to cause the fiber to fatigue, then 'strength' becomes relative at this point.

cheers

[Cleanest Natural]

sounds revolutionary, where can I find details on this groundbreaking method?

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Vince is a genius when it comes to developing gym equipment. It's really pity he couldn't find investors.

Basile could have found investors but didn't because he's not a good salesman.  He should have hired an outside pitchman to sell his equipment.  Despite how annoying he is, he has built some unique stuff but even Arthur Jones needed to hire people.

[no one]

actually I'd rather you didn't use it, QN.

last thing I need is some 3rd world fuck up prancing abt Yugoslavia bastardising my system and selling it for the small price of some turnip and beets.

[Cleanest Natural]

actually I'd rather you didn't use it, QN.

last thing I need is some 3rd world fuck up prancing abt Yugoslavia bastardising my system and selling it for the small price of some turnip and beets.

your IQ must match your calf 

[The True Adonis]

haha still on hormones

Brutal wtf are shoes doing on the faux fireplace complete with a stuffed bird  

Shoes are Tramezza (moved them out of the way and put them there for a second), fireplace was hand carved 170 years ago with marble inserts, bird is a Phasianus colchicus, Ring-Necked Pheasant around 110 years old.

[Cleanest Natural]

Shoes are Tramezza (moved them out of the way and out them there for a second), fireplace was hand carved 170 years ago with marble inserts, bird is a Phasianus colchicus, Ring-Necked Pheasant around 110 years old.

looks like a cheap faux one .. it's ok though..bird looks dead as shit though ... do you try to feed it?

[Disgusted]

Been training this ways for years. I always joke that when people see me working out they think I'm warming up the whole time. I rarely lift at a gym but when I do I usually get stared at not solely based on my size but because of the light weight I use compared to people half my size who throw enormous amounts of weight on the bar. Tempo and rest periods are pretty much all you need to understand for one to grow from resistance exercise. Remember though that muscle size does have a limit so gains will eventually stop.

[Simple Simon]

haha still on hormones

Brutal wtf are shoes doing on the faux fireplace complete with a stuffed bird 

They are strategically placed items intended to initiate debate.   

[calfzilla]

They are strategically placed items intended to initiate debate.   

Qft

[The True Adonis]

Been training this ways for years. I always joke that when people see me working out they think I'm warming up the whole time. I rarely lift at a gym but when I do I usually get stared at not solely based on my size but because of the light weight I use compared to people half my size who throw enormous amounts of weight on the bar. Tempo and rest periods are pretty much all you need to understand for one to grow from resistance exercise. Remember though that muscle size does have a limit so gains will eventually stop.

Do you think there is any good reason to "go heavy" as far muscle building is concerned?

I always laugh at this one:

[Disgusted]

Do you think there is any good reason to "go heavy" as far muscle building is concerned?

I always laugh at this one:

Well I know that you know that ( ) "go heavy" really has no meaning at all when applied to how someone should lift weights when looking to increase muscle hypertrophy. But yes usually people tend to think go heavy is to use a weight that you can barely move for 5 or so reps have your spotter do most of the work and maybe scream a few times for that extra umf and then they go home and over eat and get fat.

[pellius]

there's no 'taking me apart' sunshine.

I look the way I do. you look the way you do.

that's your reality.

when I want to walk around looking like a 130 pound dried prune I'll look you up. I'm in the business of bettering myself. looking godly. improving my body and my performace. in doing so I'm sharing w others who might have the same goals.

I have no vested interest in you or anyone else wanting to try this. I could give a fuck what you 'think'. cause your basing your ignorant opinion on nothing other than speculation and a distain for my personality.

you see where 'win' and you 'lose' since that seems to be such a repeated motif in your posts is that it is everything I say it is. I'm going to keep improving that physique you see in the pics I've posted. your going to sit there crying abt how you don't like me.

who wins? lol

Your continued meltdowns and whining about how I burn and frustrate you is proof enough.

You care a lot about what I, and others, think of you. Remember it was you that started this pissing match. I never addressed you or the training protocol you claimed to have invented. I didn't even have you mind when I simply addressed TA and asked him to show clear evidence as to the progress he claims to have made. I don't care about your programs or protocols as your development comes from vials and needles. But that's when you inserted yourself and personally insulted me.

Now you find yourself embroiled in a situation you regret getting involved in. You may think you can talk to people anyway you want. To be condescending and arrogant. To consider your impatience with people that do not share your level of perceived brilliance as a sign of your superior intelligence. That one just has to "deal" with your "abrasive" personality. And that's just what I'm doing. I deal with it by teaching you some manners and to show respect and courtesy for other people regardless of their level of intelligence, or more importantly to you, muscular development.

As an aside, I rarely allow events on this board to spill over in real life but I just couldn't resist sharing your story with my brochachos about how you so magnanimously kept your shirt on at a pool party. How self satisfied you must have felt that you spared the rest of the men there the embarrassment of feeling so inferior because you have bigger muscles than they do. Do you also wear those absurdly baggy shirts to "hide" your advance level of physical development as further proof that you are the "most humble person" one would ever meet?

The level of self-delusion and skewed sense of self worth of bodybuilders just never cease to amaze me. Actually I take that back. I am never surprised or amazed. It is more accurate to say "never cease to amuse me."

A hearty and mocking laugh was had by all.

The burning and frustrating continues.....

[pellius]

I didn't read any of this because it's way too long a response to my short, simple post. Again, this is what you said:

certainly nothing special. If you were you would have won something. There are tons of guys in every nowhere gym in the world going through the motions that blow you away.

Nothing in those long response paragraphs can possibly make this a compliment, which is all I pointed out. Not interested in overwrought defenses, etc. I have the attention span of a nat ( and poor reading comprehension skills.

You are quite right that this is, and was intended as, an insult. But context is everything. I made that remark in response to an out of nowhere personal insult from No One. His implication that I, and others (as he has made this claim several times), are condemned to a life of mediocrity because we don't do what he does. The implication by that comment is clearly that he doesn't consider himself mediocre but in fact better than others and feels qualified to give advice and training theories on a take or leave it terms and considers his word as evidence enough. I begged to differ. He may consider himself exceptional but I don't. And I have more evidence to support my position than he does his, i.e., he has done nothing to merit being a expert on anything.

[pellius]

Basile could have found investors but didn't because he's not a good salesman.  He should have hired an outside pitchman to sell his equipment.  Despite how annoying he is, he has built some unique stuff but even Arthur Jones needed to hire people.

Yes, you make a valid point. Many of us could have been more successful only if....

I do consider A.J. a good salesman. Vince's talent was in construction and creating. Unfortunately that does not automatically translate into talents elsewhere.

In all seriousness, I do consider this a real tragedy. No just for Vince but for the entire fitness industry.

I doubt his sons has his gifts so all of it will die with his passing.

[no one]

I'm not reading all that shit.