Some Thoughts on Diet and Genetics

[Pumpzilla]

Awesome thread!!

 Threads like this is the reason I started reading here on getbig in the first place.

[Disgusted]

Disgusted,

Thank you for sharing, very informative. I just have one concern regarding your gh statement.

If you say long use of gh will make things bad and it won't be possible to achieve that same look from years before, how come then we see Dexter still competing, or Tony Freeman? How old are they.... pushing 50? They look phenomenal - of course not their best BEST, but amazingly beating much much younger guys on stage.

Well, I have spoken to Joe on occasion and he did train King for two shows and he did NOT have King using slin and claimed he didn't have Dexter use it either, I suspect the Dex may have started using later in life and or keeps his doses lower. As far as GH I know at the time King was conservative at around 8 ui's.

[almard]

Well, I have spoken to Joe on occasion and he did train King for two shows and he did NOT have King using slin and claimed he didn't have Dexter use it either, I suspect the Dex may have started using later in life and or keeps his doses lower. As far as GH I know at the time King was conservative at around 8 ui's.

Disgusted.

Great discussion .

I would be interesting to hear your opinion about the anabolics used back on the 80st. It seem that most of AAS users back on old day,  relatively on good health, however, today we have seen people who have a lot of health issues , kidney problem , liver,  die...ect

Dose that have to be because the length of the cycle, doses...ect

[Bevo]

Well, I have spoken to Joe on occasion and he did train King for two shows and he did NOT have King using slin and claimed he didn't have Dexter use it either, I suspect the Dex may have started using later in life and or keeps his doses lower. As far as GH I know at the time King was conservative at around 8 ui's.

What do u think is adequate use for GH for a normal gym rat physique kind of person without all the crazy sides u hear?

[trapz101]

Any level of leanness can be achieved through diet. Drugs have nothing to do with it.

x2...it's the amount of muscle that can be kept then drug will come into play

[Danny-Boy]

I am talking about visceral fat behind the abdominal wall being the culprit in the case of distended stomachs we see on stage not inflammation nor hyperplasia of any giving organ. For example, I have seen up close someone with an inflamed liver from sclerosis and it's not in anyway a symmetrical look like you see from these guy on stage. He had an extremely lumpy look almost like a bowling ball was sticking  out from under his lower rib cage.

I do agree w/ your observation that accumulation of visceral fat is the major culprit in these distended bellies.. but hyperplasia of the organs is also taking place for the GH + insulin abuser....especially when on for these many years...  It may not be the outrageous dimensions/growth that many here claim.. but the cell signals are sent out for this type of cell proliferation.. this is not an opinion..And here is where the health hazards eventually surface.    As I have stated before in other threads,  the further breakdown and atrophy noticed in particular muscle groups seen in most aged bodybuilders.. such as an atrophied LEFT latissimus d. or even Right Tricep.. can be seen as the eventual impingement of spinal nerve roots coming out of a particular side via bone growth obstruction.  this is bound to happen to most abusers ..   Ever notice why there is a constant theme of an asymmetrical body part for these aging bodybuilders?     The current deterioration of bodybuilding is an obvious culminated effect... The GH + Insulin must go if one wishes to see these classical v-tapers and healthier looking skin on stage..  

[Disgusted]

I do agree w/ your observation that accumulation of visceral fat is the major culprit in these distended bellies.. but hyperplasia of the organs is also taking place for the GH + insulin abuser....especially when on for these many years...  It may not be the outrageous dimensions/growth that many here claim.. but the cell signals are sent out for this type of cell proliferation.. this is not an opinion..And here is where the health hazards eventually surface.    As I have stated before in other threads,  the further breakdown and atrophy noticed in particular muscle groups seen in most aged bodybuilders.. such as an atrophied LEFT latissimus d. or even Right Tricep.. can be seen as the eventual impingement of spinal nerve roots coming out of a particular side via bone growth obstruction.  this is bound to happen to most abusers ..   Ever notice why there is a constant theme of an asymmetrical body part for these aging bodybuilders?     The current deterioration of bodybuilding is an obvious culminated effect... The GH + Insulin must go if one wishes to see these classical v-tapers and healthier looking skin on stage..  

Can't and won't disagree as far as the effects of long tern high dose GH. In the case of Ronnie for example it would have been easy for his Dr to be able to tell if this type of bone growth has occurred by doing an MRI which I would imagine they have done maybe more than once. Although one would think that both sides would be affected almost equally in the case of bone growth. Usually when one has a slipped disk you will see only one side effected due to the disc moving in a non linear pattern meaning the disk itself would not impinge the nerve equally on both sides.

[The True Adonis]

x2...it's the amount of muscle that can be kept then drug will come into play

Not really.  Lifetime Naturals don`t really lose any more or less muscle when dieting down than roiders.

[Danny-Boy]

Can't and won't disagree as far as the effects of long tern high dose GH. In the case of Ronnie for example it would have been easy for his Dr to be able to tell if this type of bone growth has occurred by doing an MRI which I would imagine they have done maybe more than once. Although one would think that both sides would be affected almost equally in the case of bone growth. Usually when one has a slipped disk you will see only one side effected due to the disc moving in a non linear pattern meaning the disk itself would not impinge the nerve equally on both sides.

wasn't speaking in terms of the disk but rather the foramen(lateral portion of vertebra) where the particular spinal nerve root would exit..  this type of bone growth would not have to be symmetrical

[Disgusted]

wasn't speaking in terms of the disk but rather the foramen(lateral portion of vertebra) where the particular spinal nerve root would exit..  this type of bone growth would not have to be symmetrical

I gotcha, so wouldn't you agree this could be seen on an MRI?

[Thin Lizzy]

So what exactly is the upside to using Slin?

[heenok]

Not really.  Lifetime Naturals don`t really lose any more or less muscle when dieting down than roiders.

lol

are you actually serious or trolling ?

[The True Adonis]

lol

are you actually serious or trolling ?

Serious.  Lifetime Naturals do not lose hardly any muscle when dieting down.  Plenty of studies out there to confirm this as well.  Many done by Eric Helms. 

[monstermunch]

Not really.  Lifetime Naturals don`t really lose any more or less muscle when dieting down than roiders.

Are Lifetime Naturals more natural than lifetime naturals?

[heenok]

I have dieted down as a natty from like 20% to 12% and i garantee you i lost a lot of the little muscle i had. The strengh completly crashed too and it took me about 1,5 year to get back to my old strengh levels... So yeah cutting as a natty is disastrous. Even on gear right now im only maintaining my strengh and size not even progressing on most exercises on a strict low carb diet + a little cardio.

[SquatsRule]

The visceral fat is why I don't understand the use of insulin while dieting.

[The True Adonis]

I have dieted down as a natty from like 20% to 12% and i garantee you i lost a lot of the little muscle i had. The strengh completly crashed too and it took me about 1,5 year to get back to my old strengh levels... So yeah cutting as a natty is disastrous. Even on gear right now im only maintaining my strengh and size not even progressing on most exercises on a strict low carb diet + a little cardio.

No you didn`t.  At 20 percent, your fat ass was able to lift heavier because you were a fat ass.  You did not have any more muscle.

[illuminati]

Excellent topic, longtime since we had a serious bodybuilding related one.

On the visceral fat & insulin use, is this yet scientifically proven.?

I have thought this to be the case for some time.
Yet other sportsmen use insulin & we are not seeing the extended guts in them.

Is it the extra muscle mass that is causing it, & or the very large & varied concoction
Of steroids being used.

Clearly some combination of drugs has changed & changed the look of bodybuilders.

[dustin]

Insulin and glucose metabolism are very interesting. Great observations, disgusted. Too much GH and slin abuse. Guys can't get rid of the hardcore fat stores because of impaired glucose metabolism and insulin resistance from GH abuse. They're wonderful in small doses but the synergy between them is parallel in both pros and cons. They work AMAZINGLY together, but they're also amazingly destructive if abused.

Insulin is such a strong storage hormone, you can't bulk haphazardly with it. It also promotes fat storage. People forget about this. The fat cells become brutal and hard like rock. Normal fat cells should break down with ease, but I've noticed that the last little bit of fat is amazingly stubborn. And I can imagine that if one abused insulin, it'd just compound to that issue to the point where it basically doesn't break down. Glucose metabolism is too impaired and the body doesn't/can't break down those fat stores like other subcutaneous fat stores that inflate and deflate with relative ease. That visceral fat that's been transformed is basically there to stay.

[Van_Bilderass]

This is the first I've heard of GH causing the atrophy seen in some bodybuilders. Danny seems to
know some things, I have no idea if this is really happening. It was put down as a result of training damage
by some Dr writing for MD.

[njflex]

Insulin and glucose metabolism are very interesting. Great observations, disgusted. Too much GH and slin abuse. Guys can't get rid of the hardcore fat stores because of impaired glucose metabolism and insulin resistance from GH abuse. They're wonderful in small doses but the synergy between them is parallel in both pros and cons. They work AMAZINGLY together, but they're also amazingly destructive if abused.

Insulin is such a strong storage hormone, you can't bulk haphazardly with it. It also promotes fat storage. People forget about this. The fat cells become brutal and hard like rock. Normal fat cells should break down with ease, but I've noticed that the last little bit of fat is amazingly stubborn. And I can imagine that if one abused insulin, it'd just compound to that issue to the point where it basically doesn't break down. Glucose metabolism is too impaired and the body doesn't/can't break down those fat stores like other subcutaneous fat stores that inflate and deflate with relative ease. That visceral fat that's been transformed is basically there to stay.

pretty much when these guys quit everything including training cause going from anything remotley close to what they were to anything less is not worth a dime to them to go to gym to put in effort into.so they end up soft with most muscle gone or fat and not recognizing a once incredible build.

[the trainer]

I am talking about visceral fat behind the abdominal wall being the culprit in the case of distended stomachs we see on stage not inflammation nor hyperplasia of any giving organ. For example, I have seen up close someone with an inflamed liver from sclerosis and it's not in anyway a symmetrical look like you see from these guy on stage. He had an extremely lumpy look almost like a bowling ball was sticking  out from under his lower rib cage.

You are half right so I will give you 4 out of ten, whats causes the gut in pro bodybuilding is insulin, the constant use of insulin increase the intra fat in the abs, A healthy person who uses insulin fucks up the insulin sensitivity in the body and the gut pushes out because of the increase intra fat, they should call it slin gut instead of gh gut LOL.

[Thin Lizzy]

Insulin is such a strong storage hormone, you can't bulk haphazardly with it. It also promotes fat storage. People forget about this. The fat cells become brutal and hard like rock. Normal fat cells should break down with ease, but I've noticed that the last little bit of fat is amazingly stubborn. And I can imagine that if one abused insulin, it'd just compound to that issue to the point where it basically doesn't break down. Glucose metabolism is too impaired and the body doesn't/can't break down those fat stores like other subcutaneous fat stores that inflate and deflate with relative ease. That visceral fat that's been transformed is basically there to stay.

Good stuff, Dustin

Insulin's primary purpose is regulation of blood sugar. So, the presence of Insulin in the blood signals the body to prioritize using glucose for energy and storing fat for future use.

[WalterWhite]

What do u think is adequate use for GH for a normal gym rat physique kind of person without all the crazy sides u hear?

If you have pharma seros everybody is different but start low and slowly increase. I think 2iu is plenty for a gym rat with patience, money and a connection. 

[Disgusted]

You are half right so I will give you 4 out of ten, whats causes the gut in pro bodybuilding is insulin, the constant use of insulin increase the intra fat in the abs, A healthy person who uses insulin fucks up the insulin sensitivity in the body and the gut pushes out because of the increase intra fat, they should call it slin gut instead of gh gut LOL.

So explain to me where I am only half right. BTW 4 out of ten isn't half.