Author Topic: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.  (Read 118858 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #500 on: April 21, 2015, 02:25:35 PM »
Again not the same thing, I can go to his shop, see where he made it, talk to him, others can verify him etc. You are basically saying there is an immaterial thing creating the material, it makes no sense.

I'll pick you apart a little later....busy now.  ;)

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #501 on: April 22, 2015, 09:00:55 AM »
That's my point, the fact that we can both tell the art was created is because the fucking surrounding sand is not, do you understand what I am saying? If you come across a watch on the beach you are going to assume it was created, by logical extension the beach was not. If all is created by god, it would all have properties of being "created". Can you tell a rock apart from a watch, is one created? if both are they should share the same properties of created things.

The art also has a maker you can meet, you can see how it is made, where it is made etc. this is another attribute of created things.

This is also another key point, if this is his creation we should be able to determine things about the creator. Like if the watch was rolex we know it's expensive, expensive materials, took time to create, appearance is key etc.. so god created brain eating parasites that kill kids brutally for trying to drink some water, sounds like a moron to me.  This is the point, the creation blows, The sun will kill us all eventually, some creation. Imagine building a watch with a timebomb in it, makes sense ::) but carry on, you guys are reasonable.

You know, Necrosis, I do not think that there is anything that anyone could say to you to make you believe. It is obvious that you are not trying to be persuaded, but rather trying to persuade. Man of Steel has been very kind to you and has been sincerely giving you a piece of his heart, in love and affection pouring himself into you, answering your every question; but you don't quit. So, while I could take the time to write you a response dealing with your arguments, i think i know that all i would be doing is wasting my time.

One thing I will tell you is that for a true Christian, faith is not blind. It is not as if me and you have the same evidence but come to different conclusions. You have the witness of creation, the witness of human life, and the witness of your own soul against you; all of these as evidence. But those are your only evidences. The Christian has much more than that, for the Christian experiences God's very own Spirit. The Christian experiences supernatual works of God on a daily basis, in ways that the unbeliever can never imagine. No atheist, or muslim, or agnostic, or jew could ever understand what it means to truly believe in God because they have never experienced the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit. But for the Christian, this experience is indeed a revelation, and logical evidence, in fact concrete proof of what we believe. We call it 'faith', but it's more like fact. Indeed, it is fact. I know that I know, and I know that I know that I know. Not because the bible says so, not because some preacher says so, but because I experience the supernatural power of God in my life and because God Himself reveals Himself to me on a daily basis.


Seek Jesus, my friend.

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #502 on: April 22, 2015, 12:24:07 PM »
You know, Necrosis, I do not think that there is anything that anyone could say to you to make you believe. It is obvious that you are not trying to be persuaded, but rather trying to persuade. Man of Steel has been very kind to you and has been sincerely giving you a piece of his heart, in love and affection pouring himself into you, answering your every question; but you don't quit. So, while I could take the time to write you a response dealing with your arguments, i think i know that all i would be doing is wasting my time.

I only care about truth, the quickest way there is reason. I am not interested as you correctly ascertained in others feelings or what they feel is right. Clearly you can see the problem with this.

One thing I will tell you is that for a true Christian, faith is not blind. It is not as if me and you have the same evidence but come to different conclusions. You have the witness of creation, the witness of human life, and the witness of your own soul against you; all of these as evidence. But those are your only evidences. The Christian has much more than that, for the Christian experiences God's very own Spirit. The Christian experiences supernatual works of God on a daily basis, in ways that the unbeliever can never imagine. No atheist, or muslim, or agnostic, or jew could ever understand what it means to truly believe in God because they have never experienced the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit. But for the Christian, this experience is indeed a revelation, and logical evidence, in fact concrete proof of what we believe. We call it 'faith', but it's more like fact. Indeed, it is fact. I know that I know, and I know that I know that I know. Not because the bible says so, not because some preacher says so, but because I experience the supernatural power of God in my life and because God Himself reveals Himself to me on a daily basis.

Why is this evidence of a christian god specifically? life is evidence of god? you are to far gone, completely indoctrinated, unable to think for himself, exactly what they want (religion).  A crazy person knows there are cops watching him, a schizo knows god is an ant in his ear that feeds on wax. Your inner reality is not reality, how hard is this to grasp? A muslim, knows allah is god, how can we tell who is correct? a little thing called logic, applying logic to your beliefs decimates them. you seem to not understand what concrete means, your inner subjective experiences are not concrete, the fact that you have stopped questioning them is sad.

Seek Jesus, my friend.

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #503 on: April 22, 2015, 09:08:37 PM »
i was not talking primarily about inner personal experiences, although those are proof as well, but i was talking about external events that are undeniably the supernatural work of God.

an example of this would be a dead man who came back to life after being prayed for, a house that burns to the ground and absolutely everything is destroyed and completely burned to pieces except for a bible (the covers were burnt, but not a single page inside was touched), and i could go on and on with these types of things that God has performed.


The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #504 on: April 22, 2015, 11:15:42 PM »

Romans 1:20
20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.


I hope you understand I'm not ganging up here, my friend, but MoS. Dude. You're way too smart to believe this verse explains anything, really.

The earth and sky somehow reveal God? C'mon, guy. This is childish. Akin to Bill O'Reilly defending creation with the rising tide (Google). This wouldn't work for you, so why use it here? With this angle, science provides plenty of "excuses" for "not knowing God."

Also, why doesn't Romans capitalize "his"?

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #505 on: April 23, 2015, 07:08:13 AM »
i was not talking primarily about inner personal experiences, although those are proof as well, but i was talking about external events that are undeniably the supernatural work of God.

ok, have some examples?

an example of this would be a dead man who came back to life after being prayed for, a house that burns to the ground and absolutely everything is destroyed and completely burned to pieces except for a bible (the covers were burnt, but not a single page inside was touched), and i could go on and on with these types of things that God has performed.

The universe is infinite, there are trillions of stars, the vastness and scale is unimaginable, yet you think god's power is shown in a house fire, why doesn't he grow back an amputee's leg? how silly is this? so god decides to let someones house burn down (your implication) but keeps the bible from burning? he decides to intervene in this instance, to suspend natural order to ensure a bible in some house was flame retardant. You guys are right, completely reasonable. If we all approached this world in the manner you are nothing would be known. Maybe the bible was covered in retardant, perhaps it was added as in a lie etc etc.. you have to critically appraise things.  



Agnostic007

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #506 on: April 23, 2015, 08:04:32 AM »
i was not talking primarily about inner personal experiences, although those are proof as well, but i was talking about external events that are undeniably the supernatural work of God.

an example of this would be a dead man who came back to life after being prayed for, a house that burns to the ground and absolutely everything is destroyed and completely burned to pieces except for a bible (the covers were burnt, but not a single page inside was touched), and i could go on and on with these types of things that God has performed.



This kind of "proof" is funny. For example, a tornado comes through a town, wipes out whole subdivisions, killing dozens, but a child is found in the rubble with minor injuries and people will declare a miracle from god. They conveniently forget the other 4 kids that were mangled

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #507 on: April 23, 2015, 11:43:03 AM »
how about the holocaust? or the gang rape and murder of young children all over the world?

where was God?

or, better yet, when Jesus was tortured and nailed to a cross?

where was God?

(hint, He was up on the cross)

Agnostic007

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #508 on: April 23, 2015, 11:58:41 AM »
how about the holocaust? or the gang rape and murder of young children all over the world?

where was God?

or, better yet, when Jesus was tortured and nailed to a cross?

where was God?

(hint, He was up on the cross)

Seems an odd place for a god

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #509 on: April 23, 2015, 01:05:24 PM »
how about the holocaust?

where was God?


(hint, He was up on the cross)

Still, in the 1940s? Typical Roman city workers, man. Lazy trough-feeders.

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #510 on: April 23, 2015, 01:14:13 PM »
how about the holocaust? or the gang rape and murder of young children all over the world?

where was God?

or, better yet, when Jesus was tortured and nailed to a cross?

where was God?

(hint, He was up on the cross)

Are you saying god is the holocaust victims? the children being raped? by juxtaposing it with the cross you are semantically implying this.

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #511 on: April 24, 2015, 05:43:51 PM »
Are you saying god is the holocaust victims? the children being raped? by juxtaposing it with the cross you are semantically implying this.
in fact, God was indeed some of the holocaust victims and some of the children being raped.

the body of Christ, those who are filled with His Spirit, is part of God, and whatever a member of the body suffers, so does the whole body suffer.

these are spiritual things that only God can reveal to you.

they are absurd, and foolish, and completely insane. at least, according to the flesh.



anyways.. it's funny, well, it's not really funny, but sad. i told you i had proof of God, you ask for the proof as if you could be convinced if I had real proof. i tell you i experience supernatual miracles of God, and you tell me that i should doubt my experiences. what you are really saying is that it doesnt matter what i tell you, you will never believe. I am certain that if God Himself came down from Heaven, knocked on your door, introduced Himself to you and showed you all the majesty of His glory; you would spit on His face and tell Him that either He should make you God or else He could go to hell. 

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #512 on: April 25, 2015, 05:05:54 AM »
in fact, God was indeed some of the holocaust victims and some of the children being raped.

the body of Christ, those who are filled with His Spirit, is part of God, and whatever a member of the body suffers, so does the whole body suffer.

these are spiritual things that only God can reveal to you.

they are absurd, and foolish, and completely insane. at least, according to the flesh.



anyways.. it's funny, well, it's not really funny, but sad. i told you i had proof of God, you ask for the proof as if you could be convinced if I had real proof. i tell you i experience supernatual miracles of God, and you tell me that i should doubt my experiences. what you are really saying is that it doesnt matter what i tell you, you will never believe. I am certain that if God Himself came down from Heaven, knocked on your door, introduced Himself to you and showed you all the majesty of His glory; you would spit on His face and tell Him that either He should make you God or else He could go to hell. 


No, I want proof, verifiable proof otherwise my muslim friend is just as convinced as you and you both can't be right?

I can't just believe you.

The Ugly

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #513 on: April 25, 2015, 03:49:57 PM »

No, I want proof, verifiable proof otherwise my muslim friend is just as convinced as you and you both can't be right?

I can't just believe you.

Muslims are equally convinced Christians will suffer eternal torture, yet neither side loses sleep over the possibility they might have chosen incorrectly.

Odd.


King Shizzo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #514 on: April 25, 2015, 04:43:33 PM »
Muslims are equally convinced Christians will suffer eternal torture, yet neither side loses sleep over the possibility they might have chosen incorrectly.

Odd.


Because nothing is correct. There is no such thing as "one true god", or the correct religion. If there is something that happens when we die, no human being knows what that is. It certainly isn't held in some earthly manuscript.

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #515 on: April 26, 2015, 06:07:13 AM »
Because nothing is correct. There is no such thing as "one true god", or the correct religion. If there is something that happens when we die, no human being knows what that is. It certainly isn't held in some earthly manuscript.

quite obviously, religious people are funny, christianity is no more plausible then scientology but because it's "ancient" (more retarded) the idea of divinity and specialness is there.

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #516 on: April 26, 2015, 11:18:46 AM »
Because nothing is correct. There is no such thing as "one true god", or the correct religion. If there is something that happens when we die, no human being knows what that is. It certainly isn't held in some earthly manuscript.

You and I believe this, but billions worldwide are convinced we'll suffer eternal damnation for such thoughts.

Crazy world, my friend.

Agnostic007

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #517 on: April 27, 2015, 08:30:51 AM »
You and I believe this, but billions worldwide are convinced we'll suffer eternal damnation for such thoughts.

Crazy world, my friend.

The conversation kind of dies off when you ask the average Christian to describe heaven in detail. Other than a cloudy jack and the bean stalk type castle in the sky with streets paved of gold there is very little info about it.. But that's the golden ring they are reaching for.

Will we know everyone up there from our previous life?
Will my ex wife be there? Will she get along with my current wife?
What will we wear? What will we eat? Are there bathrooms?
Will there be a bunch of aborted fetuses and babies who died from cancer that we'll have to take care of?
Will they be eternally the same age or will they grow older?
Will we age while there?
Is it cable or dish?
New York style Pizza or Chicago?
So we sleep? If not, what do we do all day? 

King Shizzo

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #518 on: April 27, 2015, 08:40:21 AM »
The conversation kind of dies off when you ask the average Christian to describe heaven in detail. Other than a cloudy jack and the bean stalk type castle in the sky with streets paved of gold there is very little info about it.. But that's the golden ring they are reaching for.

Will we know everyone up there from our previous life?
Will my ex wife be there? Will she get along with my current wife?
What will we wear? What will we eat? Are there bathrooms?
Will there be a bunch of aborted fetuses and babies who died from cancer that we'll have to take care of?
Will they be eternally the same age or will they grow older?
Will we age while there?
Is it cable or dish?
New York style Pizza or Chicago?
So we sleep? If not, what do we do all day? 
Hilarious, but very true at the same time. Those ancient thought processes should have gone extinct long ago.

The main reason it doesn't, is population control and the fact that religion is big business.

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #519 on: April 27, 2015, 07:57:23 PM »

No, I want proof, verifiable proof otherwise my muslim friend is just as convinced as you and you both can't be right?

I can't just believe you.
you are proof.  :)

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #520 on: April 27, 2015, 09:34:27 PM »
you are proof.  :)

Proof of God, or proof that his parents fucked?

God creates us, right? We keep hearing this. So why all the fucking?

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #521 on: April 27, 2015, 10:11:11 PM »
Proof of God, or prooff that his parents fucked?

God creates us, right? We keep hearing this. So why all the fucking?
Are you now mad at God because He has blessed you with the beautiful pleasures of sexual relations?   ;D

Necrosis

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #522 on: April 28, 2015, 05:04:55 AM »
you are proof.  :)

So everything is proof of god, the christian god. Seems a bit tautological

tbombz

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #523 on: April 28, 2015, 02:27:16 PM »
So everything is proof of god, the christian god. Seems a bit tautological
i remember the first time i heard a philosophical argument for the existence of God.
"how stupid, and ridiculously circular, i can't believe my professor wants us to learn this!"
but then a couple days later, a weight dropped on my head. my eyes started to tear. for the first time in my life i realized that God exists.
it took me almost 5 years of obsessive searching until I finally found Him.
only to find out that He was not hidden at all.
He had been under my nose the whole time.
I had been making fun of Him, arguing against Him, calling His testimony a fraud and a fake.

So i understand why He seems tautological to you.  :)

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Re: Pope Francis: Big Bang and evolution are real.
« Reply #524 on: April 28, 2015, 02:42:44 PM »
i remember the first time i heard a philosophical argument for the existence of God.
"how stupid, and ridiculously circular, i can't believe my professor wants us to learn this!"
but then a couple days later, a weight dropped on my head. my eyes started to tear. for the first time in my life i realized that God exists.
it took me almost 5 years of obsessive searching until I finally found Him.
only to find out that He was not hidden at all.
He had been under my nose the whole time.
I had been making fun of Him, arguing against Him, calling His testimony a fraud and a fake.

So i understand why He seems tautological to you.  :)

Mental illness can strike at any age.. .