Author Topic: Getting old sucks  (Read 41841 times)

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2014, 06:06:46 AM »
We can`t even get the public decent health care.  I know you fear aging because and are obsessed with it, but at some point you are going to have to realize your pipe dream, even if the technology is available, will never happen writ large.

Public health care? We speak money here, not a widespread medicine for every poor tax payer. Some people said we are never gonna fly, we are never gonna land on a moon, etc... nothing new. Extraordinary shift of a paradigm usualy is usualy extraoradinary opposed too. I'm merely encouraging the society to be more conscious of this regard, as the funding of billions of dollars that go to cancer research, should be redirected to aging (as cancer ant most other serious disseases are a direct manifestation of aging. Thus - any research on alzhaimers for ex. is pretty futile, it does not solve anything). I'm afraid of these horrible ilnesses like Alzhaimer, which to me equals the thing you call "aging".

Aging will be solved by about 2035-45, according by someone like R.Kurzweil. Mya be true, may be not, the fact is - life and health care will be very very different after 30 years from now on. Life was very different merely 10 years ago, and the technological change is exponential, not linear, the next 10 years will bring even more changes, and so on, at an increasing magnitude.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2014, 08:12:24 AM »
Public health care? We speak money here, not a widespread medicine for every poor tax payer. Some people said we are never gonna fly, we are never gonna land on a moon, etc... nothing new. Extraordinary shift of a paradigm usualy is usualy extraoradinary opposed too. I'm merely encouraging the society to be more conscious of this regard, as the funding of billions of dollars that go to cancer research, should be redirected to aging (as cancer ant most other serious disseases are a direct manifestation of aging. Thus - any research on alzhaimers for ex. is pretty futile, it does not solve anything). I'm afraid of these horrible ilnesses like Alzhaimer, which to me equals the thing you call "aging".

Aging will be solved by about 2035-45, according by someone like R.Kurzweil. Mya be true, may be not, the fact is - life and health care will be very very different after 30 years from now on. Life was very different merely 10 years ago, and the technological change is exponential, not linear, the next 10 years will bring even more changes, and so on, at an increasing magnitude.

keep telling yourself that  LOLOL.


Davinci the robot  ::)

Natural Man

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2014, 08:20:38 AM »
Public health care? We speak money here, not a widespread medicine for every poor tax payer. Some people said we are never gonna fly, we are never gonna land on a moon, etc... nothing new. Extraordinary shift of a paradigm usualy is usualy extraoradinary opposed too. I'm merely encouraging the society to be more conscious of this regard, as the funding of billions of dollars that go to cancer research, should be redirected to aging (as cancer ant most other serious disseases are a direct manifestation of aging. Thus - any research on alzhaimers for ex. is pretty futile, it does not solve anything). I'm afraid of these horrible ilnesses like Alzhaimer, which to me equals the thing you call "aging".

Aging will be solved by about 2035-45, according by someone like R.Kurzweil. Mya be true, may be not, the fact is - life and health care will be very very different after 30 years from now on. Life was very different merely 10 years ago, and the technological change is exponential, not linear, the next 10 years will bring even more changes, and so on, at an increasing magnitude.
Dude...life sucked, sucks and will keep sucking all the same, sorry to burst your bubble. Life will always be the same as we ll always be the same animals. Power = better odds of survival = hapiness. The most powerful are the happiest. The poorest, unlucky ones will always try to go up and the powerful richest ones will always try to keep the weaker ones down. A never ending circle of animals fighting for resources, mates, power, until something external or internal to our specie makes the whole thing end.

A problem with your reasoning is you ll be dead waaaay before any kind of scientific advance you re dreaming about is made if it's ever made. And you ll probably never be rich enough to afford the stuff you talk about. Neither would your kids or grandkids, as you dont even intend to have an offspring. You re bottom feeder just like the rest of us on here.

Look, to you life is about playing videos games, surfing the web, working and lifting weights while banging a diff girl once in a while, until your dying day, we get your point.
Some prefer to choose kids and family. For those who choose it and arent forced into it.

Life is still pointless in both cases, no matter how hard you try to give it a "better" meaning, it's just what it is. We re animals blindly doing animal stuff until we die.
As you said it it's all about brainwashing yourself into being content with what you have. Fabricating a "superior meaning" that keeps you going.
 In the end we re all drones who never chose to be spawned into the brutal jungle life is and who barely  adapt day to day to survive random threats with what we ve been completely randomly given by "mother nature" (this whore).

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2014, 08:24:53 AM »
keep telling yourself that  LOLOL.


Davinci the robot  ::)

What is so funny or "negative" that I'm saying? Are you mad that you are older and chances are lower or what? Geez... some of you are very sensitive here for no apparent reason sometimes. My actual point was that if more people (amongst scientists too) would be more conscious - we could have that kind of medicine faster and "later years" for many people would be a LOT more pleasurable. Some day there will be a choice - to live further or to die "naturally". It is not sci fi, there ARE animal species that does not age (many doesn't even know this). But at the same time I understand that you can't make this kind of paradigma shit to happen instantly, after so many centuries of convincing ourselves (out of desperation, obviously) that "it's all good and natural".

Natural Man

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2014, 08:25:57 AM »
What is so funny or "negative" that I'm saying? Are you mad that you are older and chances are lower or what? Geez... some of you are very sensitive here for no apparent reason sometimes. My actual point was that if more people (amongst scientists too) would be more conscious - we could have that kind of medicine faster and "later years" for many people would be a LOT more pleasurable. Some day there will be a choice - to live further or to die "naturally". It is not sci fi, there ARE animal species that does not age (many doesn't even know this). But at the same time I understand that you can't make this kind of paradigma shit to happen instantly, after so many centuries of convincing ourselves (out of desperation, obviously) that "it's all good and natural".
Dude, heaven on earth will never exist, and if it ever does, you or your genes in someone else wont be there to be part of it, if you dont want kids. You re illogical.

Mr.Mojo

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2014, 08:27:17 AM »
Dude...life sucked, sucks and will keep sucking all the same, sorry to burst your bubble. Life will always be the same as we ll always be the same animals. Power = better odds of survival = hapiness. The most powerful are the happiest.

Problem is you ll be dead waaaay before any kind of scientific advance you re dreaming about is made if it's ever made. And you ll probably never be rich enough to afford the stuff you talk about. Neither would your kids or grandkids, as you dont intend to have an offspring.

Look, to you life is about playing videos games, surfing the web, working and lifting weights while banging a diff girl once in a while, until your dying day, we get your point.
Some prefer to choose kids and family. For those who choose it and arent forced into it.

Life is still pointless in both cases, no matter how hard you try to give it a "better" meaning, it's just what is is. As you said it it's all about brainwashing yourself into being content with what you have. In the end we re all drones who never chose to be spawned into the brutal jungle life is.


This ...exactly


and at least where would the immortal live ? on a planet they have already destroyed ?

Natural Man

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2014, 08:32:10 AM »
This ...exactly


and at least where would the immortal live ? on a planet they have already destroyed ?
doesnt being immortal gets old after a while? except if our advanced grandgrandgrandgrandetc kids find a cure to life getting boring/old?

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2014, 08:34:38 AM »
Dude...life sucked, sucks and will keep sucking all the same, sorry to burst your bubble. Life will always be the same as we ll always be the same animals. Power = better odds of survival = hapiness. The most powerful are the happiest.

Problem is you ll be dead waaaay before any kind of scientific advance you re dreaming about is made if it's ever made. And you ll probably never be rich enough to afford the stuff you talk about. Neither would your kids or grandkids, as you dont intend to have an offspring.

Look, to you life is about playing videos games, surfing the web, working and lifting weights while banging a diff girl once in a while, until your dying day, we get your point.
Some prefer to choose kids and family. For those who choose it and arent forced into it.

Life is still pointless in both cases, no matter how hard you try to give it a "better" meaning, it's just what is is. As you said it it's all about brainwashing yourself into being content with what you have. In the end we re all drones who never chose to be spawned into the brutal jungle life is.


Don't be so sure that we will be the same animals, 50 years from now, after humans will start tweaking themselves on a genetic/mollekcular level. It's very possible that humans will become a very different kind of animals from a current state.

The time scale, I guess you, like most people who are not very familiar with the way technological advances happen, evaluate everything from a current state of things. That is a mistake. Progress is exponential (technological) and I can assure you (it doesn't mean anything, I know) that YOU will see first serious and working anti-aging therapies in your life time, maybe you will even use some. That won't be full blown regeneration (that one will come gradually, almost unnoticeably, as a sum of various different approaches), but it will be a huge leap towards a better human condition in that sense. Of course - money will be the main thing, like always. BTW, do you know how life expectancy is increasing? (http://www.nia.nih.gov/health/publication/why-population-aging-matters-global-perspective/trend-2-increasing-life ). These numbers will speed up too even more. Your kids will probably live to 100 easily and in a relatively good health.

And I agree on your second point (except video games and banging random girls. I like to bang girls, but not randomly, I'm just sceptical about other things we discussed quite some times already), it's meaningless and it doesn't matter anyway. But if we are here - it would be great to add some more quality to that existence if that is possible. Health and youth (it's the same really) is the main factor, everything else comes after...

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2014, 08:44:32 AM »
Dude, heaven on earth will never exist, and if it ever does, you or your genes in someone else wont be there to be part of it, if you dont want kids. You re illogical.

I disagree. "Wanting" kids is wanting to reach the same goal (the state of these non-aging species. As when there are no threats for a specie anymore, eolution starts making it live longer, a lot longer, till a so called "negligible senescence" is reached. Humans doesn't have any natural predators or dangers in their enviroment anymore too.). Westerners, you like to speak about, doesn't want that kind of course anymore, they want to continue living themselves (a genome which doesn't require to be "transferred" anymore, because there's no point as it's self sustainable in the same vessel), and that's what is putting an anti aging science in a high gear currently. It's expected and it may actually be the thing which will save the white race from being overtaken by third worlders some time in the future.
 It sounds like a very far dream to most of you, but as someone who's quite deep in that science, I can assure you that a lot more is possible than you assume, and a lot faster than you think. Take it or leave it.
 If more people would know this - more funding would go towards aging sciences and less money would be WASTED on "curing cancer" (it's strange, people doesn't laugh when we talk about cures for cancer, but they start ridiculing if the talk turns to the roots of all these horrible disseases of an OLD AGE) and searching for a magic drug to cure Alzhaimers (which is basically less possible than curing aging. Do you get the drift?).

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2014, 08:46:11 AM »
This ...exactly
and at least where would the immortal live ? on a planet they have already destroyed ?

If you'd know that you may stay here for 50-100 years more (not very long still, compared to the age of universe, eh?) you'd think next time before throwing that empty can of beer somewhere in the nature or a place which is not meant to be collecting trash.

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2014, 08:49:13 AM »
doesnt being immortal gets old after a while? except if our advanced grandgrandgrandgrandetc kids find a cure to life getting boring/old?

After the nano-bots (which are very close to reality NOW) will start to enhance our brain (once again - this will be happening in your life time, mark my words), the "life experience" will change in many ways too. Who knows, maybe we will be able to see the daily life in unimaginably more colors and tastes than currently. Nothing stands still, don't expect humans be completely the same after everything else will evolve in various ways. We indeed will become a very different kind of animals. Interesting shift of that same old process of evolution, it's quite amazing.

Mr.Mojo

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2014, 08:54:58 AM »
doesnt being immortal gets old after a while? except if our advanced grandgrandgrandgrandetc kids find a cure to life getting boring/old?

must be...
and getting immortal at, lets say around an age of 80, means sleeping forever with very old women or worse, having no sex

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2014, 08:59:19 AM »
must be...
and getting immortal at, lets say around an age of 80, means sleeping forever with very old women or worse, having no sex

Common errornous assumption (somewhy). If you'd be able to get immortal at 80, you could be of any age you'd like to be (except becoming a teenager probably. But even that theoretically is kind of "possible", by reprogramming your epigenome/methyl groups, etc.. just a very very difficult process that would be. A lot more difficult than just merely making the regeneration mechanisms work in a young phenotype.).

Natural Man

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2014, 09:06:43 AM »
I disagree. "Wanting" kids is wanting to reach the same goal (the state of these non-aging species. As when there are no threats for a specie anymore, eolution starts making it live longer, a lot longer, till a so called "negligible senescence" is reached. Humans doesn't have any natural predators or dangers in their enviroment anymore too.). Westerners, you like to speak about, doesn't want that kind of course anymore, they want to continue living themselves (a genome which doesn't require to be "transferred" anymore, because there's no point as it's self sustainable in the same vessel), and that's what is putting an anti aging science in a high gear currently. It's expected and it may actually be the thing which will save the white race from being overtaken by third worlders some time in the future.
 It sounds like a very far dream to most of you, but as someone who's quite deep in that science, I can assure you that a lot more is possible than you assume, and a lot faster than you think. Take it or leave it.
 If more people would know this - more funding would go towards aging sciences and less money would be wated on "curing cancer" (it's strange, people doesn't laugh when we talk about cures for cancer, but they start ridiculing if the talk turns to the roots of all these horrible disseases of an OLD AGE) and searching for a magic drug to cure Alzhaimers (which is basically less possible than curing aging. Do you get the drift?).

Wrong. Humans have predators in their own specie. We are our own predators. And there are random natural cataclysms. We re just trying to adapt to what's randomly thrown at us wether it comes from our own specie or out of it. There are childfree /anti natalists extremists who think human life is a cancer, and who could make great bio terrorists; their goal in life is paradoxically to find a way to effectively eradicate mankind. They re probably a bigger threat than islamists/muslims. Those who want to live enjoy life at its core, who enjoy playing the game , are wired to do so, will do their best to fight external and internal threats which should keep the specie going on for a while. The meaning of their lives is to keep life going.

There is no other purpose for an animal but to adapt and survive. Being successful at adapting (the culprit being dominant, having better odds of survival than subordinates) produces pleasure,hapiness, failing to do so producing stress and ultimately, leading to death. Stress is just the fear of death.
Whatever meaning you give to your life, it is still as pointless intrinsically as anyone else's.

My point still stands, if you dont have kids, no part of you has a single chance to ever reach that utopian perfect world you re talking about.



da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2014, 09:08:06 AM »
Let's put it this way - I'm completely insane (out of wishful thinking) or my intelligence that was applied to these fields lets me be a kind of a "visionaire" in that regard, because honestly, sometimes I just want to somehow "transfer" the knowledge I have to other people so they could wake up and encourage other people to wake up in this regard. "Waking up" would mean - demanding funds to be transferred to "curing aging" (which is not a dissease by FDA  ::) Ok, it isn't, it is a developmental drift, but sn't that what kills all people? Cancer kills some... aging kills everyone.).


A simple example for people who are not familiar with that stuff, to grasp: A chain of stem cells (there are like 5 types of different stem cells. After some years we are left just with few types of them which are "for the rest of our life"). When the pool of these remaining stem cells are starting to get depleted - many symptoms of aging starts to surface. I'm putting this very simple/lay man: it'd be enough to just "resupply" periodically the stem cell types that are lost, some years after birth, the chain would start working again - pools of stem cells that work for regenerating our organs would start working again, just like when we are young. A single, pretty complex, but very effective procedure alone would enable humans to live a lot healthier and longer life.

Now the issue currently is - money. Billions of dollars to "cure Alzhaimers" (which is incurable, because the culprit is... aging) and just hundreds of milliions to deal with aging. That is not right, sorry.

The_Punisher

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2014, 09:10:58 AM »


Jesus, that guy was one of my favorite dude in the WWF.....these guys doesn't age well...I guess the abuses that come with their profession could be the reason....I saw a recent picture of Cid Vicious(formerly Cid Justice) and he looks like a walking Corpse

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2014, 09:17:14 AM »
Wrong. Humans have predators in their own specie. We are our own predators. And there are random natural cataclysms. We re just trying to adapt to what's randomly thrown at us wether it comes from our own specie or out of it. There are childfree /anti natalists extremists who think human life is a cancer, and who could make great bio terrorists; their goal in life is paradoxically to find a way to effectively eradicate mankind. They re probably a bigger threat than islamists/muslims. Those who want to live enjoy life at its core, who enjoy playing the game , are wired to do so, will do their best to fight external and internal threats which should keep the specie going on for a while. The meaning of their lives is to keep life going.

Well the immortal species of jellyfish or certain species of aligarots or turtles have a lot more to deal still than we humans do. You are wrong about anti-natalists (unless there are some conscious eradication movement, idk). If you speak of westerners, it's simply a sitautation when genome wants to stay alive without transfering to an other vessel (just to try again). Simple as that. I'm speaking from an evolutionary standpoint. There's no sense really to try to eradicate a specie for the specie itself, it MAY look like that, but it's just a different attempt to actually stay alive. And that's what you are saying - life is about LIVING, not about dying, that's what these white people are trying to achieve, just in different way compared to the past. It's the same process that happened to these immortal species, but just happening accelerated, by a conscious technologically induced evolution direction. You will witness this easily in comming 10-20 years when "old people" will live longer and longer, until one day they will actually begin to get younger as they age (lfe expectenacy growth will outpace the all cases mortality curve. Very interesting when you get deeper into that.).

There is no other purpose for an animal but to adapt and survive. Being successful at adapting (the culprit being dominant, having better odds of survival than subordinates) produces pleasure,hapiness, failing to do so producing stress and ultimately, leading to death. Stress is just the fear of death.
Whatever meaning you give to your life, it is still as pointless intrinsically as anyone else's.

WHat if humans start trying to adapt in a new way - by not dying? Isn't it the same what are you trying to tell? Even if it's pointless - do we have a better option? It's ridiculous and doesn't make any sense, but... humans still try to "cure cancer" to make it a little more bearable for these that are still alive.




da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2014, 09:21:55 AM »
My point still stands, if you dont have kids, no part of you has a single chance to ever reach that utopian perfect world you re talking about.


Kids are just a desperate attempt at the process I'm talking about. It's futile (for an individual), your code will get dilluted to nothingness in a few generations.



cephissus

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2014, 09:25:00 AM »
I disagree. "Wanting" kids is wanting to reach the same goal (the state of these non-aging species. As when there are no threats for a specie anymore, eolution starts making it live longer, a lot longer, till a so called "negligible senescence" is reached. Humans doesn't have any natural predators or dangers in their enviroment anymore too.). Westerners, you like to speak about, doesn't want that kind of course anymore, they want to continue living themselves (a genome which doesn't require to be "transferred" anymore, because there's no point as it's self sustainable in the same vessel), and that's what is putting an anti aging science in a high gear currently. It's expected and it may actually be the thing which will save the white race from being overtaken by third worlders some time in the future.
 It sounds like a very far dream to most of you, but as someone who's quite deep in that science, I can assure you that a lot more is possible than you assume, and a lot faster than you think. Take it or leave it.
 If more people would know this - more funding would go towards aging sciences and less money would be WASTED on "curing cancer" (it's strange, people doesn't laugh when we talk about cures for cancer, but they start ridiculing if the talk turns to the roots of all these horrible disseases of an OLD AGE) and searching for a magic drug to cure Alzhaimers (which is basically less possible than curing aging. Do you get the drift?).

what do you mean you're quite deep in that science?  you mean you read a few articles, post on anti-aging forums, and browse journals from time to time ???

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2014, 09:26:36 AM »
what do you mean you're quite deep in that science?  you mean you read a few articles, post on anti-aging forums, and browse journals from time to time ???

That means I can discuss the matter quite eloquently.

cephissus

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2014, 09:29:22 AM »
oh, i thought someone who said "im quite deep in the science" might be a scientist, perhaps ::)

anyway, enough baiting, i actually like reading your posts

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2014, 09:30:09 AM »
oh, i thought someone who said "im quite deep in the science" might be a scientist, perhaps

Are you impressed by authority or by truth/arguments/facts?

Natural Man

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2014, 09:32:00 AM »
Are you impressed by authority or by truth/arguments/facts?
I doubt anyone is impressed by anything you said so far, It sounds more like you sound desperate to give a meaning to what has none with your futuristic mumbo jumbo, just like...people who have kids  ;)

cephissus

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2014, 09:36:23 AM »
I doubt anyone is impressed by anything you said so far, It sounds more like you sound desperate to give a meaning to what has none with your futuristic mumbo jumbo, just like...people who have kids  ;)

yep

da vinci, i don't really care about this subject too much, but you're obviously someone who has a strong desire for truth, who feels a need to be "right"... this is actually a quality of people who are destined to be furthest from the "truth", and one of the reasons why you aren't an actual scientist who lives and breathes this stuff 24/7, but a guy who reads lots of articles and finds a thrill debating online with lay people.

da_vinci

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Re: Getting old sucks
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2014, 09:36:30 AM »
Speaking of the life in a close future, just a random article of not very extraordinary claims (like teleportation or some other shit): http://www.wfs.org/blogs/thomas-frey/33-dramatic-predictions-for-2030  . Let's say only 30% of that happens by that time. The life will be very very different still. But in truth - there will be lots of stuff we can't even imagine currently.
 I used google street view yesterday, by a phone, it was like "Oh yeah, I just need to take a look...", when in fact it is mind blowing how fast and how complex technology have got merely in last 10 years. People just doesn't notice.. it's "normal". It will be "normal" to have micro chips (a size of a red blood cell) floating in our blood, that will be communicating with a "cloud" day and night (I can see conspiracy theorists putting on their foil hats), etc...
 A computer that is now in a fastest iPhone will be a size of a BLOOD CELL in about 25 years and it is not a sci-fi at all, do you think it won't change the way people live, behave, think and it wont chance their health?

 Well... you are very uninformed then.