Author Topic: ObamaCare Architect cites "stupidity of Americans" for lack of transparency  (Read 25638 times)

Soul Crusher

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So it's ok to lie to the American people because to libtards the ends ALWAYS justify the means.

This is how libtards have stuck Americans with crappy social programs that eat away at the nation's resources and eventually will bankrupt the nation. Just look at Detroit and California.

99% of liberals are communists at heart.    That's why.   This is why these fuck sticks need to go to NK and FNG leave the rest of us alone. 

Soul Crusher

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Obamacare architect blasted for ‘deliberate deception’
Boston Herald ^  | 11/11/2014 | Richard Weir

Posted on ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2014‎ ‎2‎:‎49‎:‎29‎ ‎PM by jonatron

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO (Congressional Budget Office) did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. … So it’s written to do that,” Gruber said, suggesting “it would not have passed” if the law “made it explicit” that healthy people would “pay in” and the sick would get money.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber continued. “Call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. I wish ... we could make it all transparent. But I’d rather have this law than not.”

Gruber, when reached by phone yesterday, said repeatedly, “I have no comment.”


(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...

Soul Crusher

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Liberals Try to Cover Up for Obamacare Architect
Rush Limbaugh.com ^  | November 11, 2014 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2014‎ ‎3‎:‎23‎:‎55‎ ‎PM by Kaslin

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT



RUSH: This is incredible. The liberals at the University of Pennsylvania tried to take down the video of Jonathan Gruber saying they had to dumb down the presentation of Obamacare because of the stupidity of the American voter. They thought they could take the video down and make the issue go away.



You remember Jonathan Gruber. By the way, he's the architect of Obamacare, and I should say that he's one of the primary architects of Romneycare as well. It was in October of last year at the University of Pennsylvania's 24th Annual Health Economics Conference, and he said that it was crucial that the American people never realize what was really in Obamacare because the stupidity of the American voter would have otherwise killed the law.

GRUBER: "Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage."

In other words, he admitted -- and he got applause, he was talking to fellow economists -- he admitted they had to lie. They had to mask and cover the transparency. They had to lie about what was in it, such as you get to keep your doctor, you get to keep your plan, your premium will come down $2,500. There are no tax increases. It's not gonna cost any more than the Iraq war. Every lie they told was purposeful because they thought the American public was so stupid they wouldn't understand the nuance and the liberal definition of need for this law, and that if they had been honest about it, people would never have supported it.



That covers pretty much everything in their agenda, by the way. If they're ever honest about their real agenda, they'd never get elected to anything outside of New York, San Francisco and Hollywood. And they wouldn't, folks. And maybe Chicago. They would not. It's not just Obamacare they lie about. It's not just Obamacare they think you are too stupid to understand.



So, anyway, the University of Pennsylvania, after the uproar of this getting out, tried to pull it down. They pulled the video of the event which took place in October of 2013. And for a time yesterday, if you went to the website at the University of Pennsylvania trying to see the video, you got a message that said: "This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that." And so that begot a Twitter and Facebook storm.



"Why would Penn pull down a public video that has political implications?" Was one of the questions. Because they're a bunch of liberals is why, and because their truth was exposed. It was major. They tried to pull it down.



Anyway, they ended up having to put it back up because they began to look like fools, thinking that they could put back in the bottle the genie that had already been released. You can't do that. So they put it back up. But it was funny to watch 'em scramble around, folks, like turning on the lights and a bunch of rats in the barn going nuts at being exposed and discovered. They tried to turn the lights back off and it didn't work.



Speaking of Obamacare, the Washington Post is, on its best day, hapless. The Washington Post is an absolute sorry excuse for what it used to be. But even with that, they continue to set new standards for incompetence and bias and just being plain wrong. There's a story by Jose DelReal: "Obamacare Consultant Under Fire for 'Stupidity of the American Voter' Comment." Now, this reporter is obviously just a Democrat with a press pass, which is what most of them at the New York Times and the Washington Post are. They're Democrats disguised as journalists. Give them a little press pass, let 'em go there, pretend to be reporters and so forth.



He sells whatever is left of his journalistic soul in this piece. Let me give you just one pull quote from it, as they're still trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Now, remember, this is for their liberal readers, Washington Post, liberal reader base, New York Times, same thing. They're trying to calm their reader base. This is not a big deal, don't worry. Gruber didn't screw it up for everybody. It's okay, it's okay, trying to calm everybody down.



Listen to this quote from the story: "Gruber's remarks have been greeted by the law's critics as an admission of intentionally deceiving the American public about the law in 2010. But given the context of the remarks, Gruber seems to be speaking specifically about how and why the law's funding mechanisms were framed when the law was being written."



This guy thinks he's helping Gruber by saying that, and he is hammering another nail in the coffin. Jose, that is exactly the point! People were deceived about the funding mechanism. That was the key, key, key to getting it passed. How the thing was gonna be paid for was the key to it getting passed. Oh, and the lie to Bart Stupak about it not funding abortions.



But the way this thing was being funded, the way it was gonna be paid for, the way it wasn't gonna cost anybody anything, the way it was gonna allow people to keep their doctors and keep their plans and lower their premiums and their deductibles? That was key to this thing getting passed, and he writes (summarized), "Well, if you read the context, if you're given the context of Professor Gruber's remarks...



"He seems to be speaking specifically about how and why the law's funding mechanisms were framed," lied about. This guy's trying to get this guy out of a jam, and he digs a deeper hole! But remember, he's dealing with his own liberal-Democrat reader base, and they are looking for holes to be dragged out of. So they'll take anything that they can get. "Economist Jonathan Gruber, one of the Regime's consultants on the..."



He was not a consultant. He was the architect, Jose. He "is under attack from conservatives for comments he made last year in which he seemingly said," and then he quotes (laughing), "the stupidity of the American voter." Seemingly? Seemingly said? He didn't "seemingly" say it. He stated unambiguously that they had to lie about this thing because of "the stupidity of the American people."



Actually if you examine that, I think really what he means is, "We had to lie because of the intelligence of the American people. We had to lie to them, otherwise they would have seen what we intended to do." That means they're pretty smart, when you get right down to it, and that's what bothers them. Now, that's not to say that Gruber and his ilk on the left and in the Democrat Party do not consider you and American voters to be a bunch of stiffs and stupid.



It doesn't mean they don't still hold you in contempt.



But what he's really saying is, "We had to lie. We had to lie, because they're too stupid... No, they're too smart, actually. They would see what really is intended here unless we lie." So you relied on what you thought was their stupid gullibility to believe your lie, is what you were relying on. And it's 2010, so there's still some residual messianic attitudes about Obama in 2010. So that's what they were relying on.



Anyway, it's CYA time at the Washington Post. But it's not over for the bad news about Obamacare. From the Washington Times: "Obamacare May Not Have Enough Enrollees to Stay Solvent -- Fewer than 10 million projected; 13 million needed to stay solvent. The [Regime] on Monday said fewer than 10 million Americans will enroll in Obamacare's health exchanges this go-around, well short of the 13 million target congressional scorekeepers deemed critical to its economics..."



Meaning: They've gotta have 13 million people paying premiums through the nose in order to fund this thing. It suggests "another rocky rollout in the law's second year of full operation," and it's next week (chuckling) when the mandate hits. It's next week when the next wave of unforeseen expenses hit everybody.



"Policy advisers at the Health & Human Services Department estimated that 9 million to 9.9 million people would enroll through the exchanges -- or only a slight increase over the 8 million that the [Regime] says were active at the end of the first enrollment period this April. The Congressional Budget Office, which is the government's official scorekeeper, had predicted the law would need 13 million customers on the exchanges. ...



"'Under the president's health care law, Americans have experienced broken exchanges, canceled coverage, higher premiums and unaffordable deductibles,' said Rep. Darrell E. Issa, California Republican and chairman of the House oversight committee... 'Despite the administration’s habit of moving the goal posts, the fact is Obamacare is simply not delivering the results Americans were originally promised by the president.'"



Neither is anything else, and this the American people know, which explains the election results this past Tuesday. "The number of enrollees is key, because if too few take part in the exchanges, the pool of customers is too small, and it could skew the economics of Obamacare, forcing insurers to raise premiums and pushing even more people to forgo coverage, choosing to pay the tax penalty instead," the FINE.



Stop and think of something here. We have Obamacare. It was gonna save the day. It was gonna insure all the uninsured. It was gonna make sure that the previous existing condition people were covered. It was gonna be magic, right? Now, what are we talking about here? They're hoping to get 13 million people?



How many people are in this country, 250 million adults, 220? What is it? I don't care, 10 million, 13 million. It's chump change. It's nothing. They got 8.8 million the first go round? We're nowhere near mass adoption of this. You know, there's a new group of people elected in the House of Representatives that just been handed another golden opportunity here.



BREAK TRANSCRIPT



RUSH: Here's the truth of the matter, folks. If the American people were stupid, the Democrats would still run the Senate and maybe even the House of Representatives. If the American people were stupid. This, by the way, really grates on the Democrats, believe me, 'cause if the American people were stupid -- meaning falling for all the lies -- the Republicans wouldn't have been elected.



It is elitism that is ignorant because it's arrogant and conceited, and Jonathan Gruber is an elitist and therefore has no idea what life is really like for all the people he's out there writing legislation for. All he knows is that they're stupid, and they can't deal with the truth. They don't know what's best for 'em. So in order to give them what's best for them (Obamacare), we have to lie to them.



The American people are just a bunch of idiots.



So lies got Barack Obama elected, twice. Corrupt politics got Obamacare passed without a single Republican vote. But this brilliant economist, Jonathan Gruber, wasn't smart enough to make Obamacare popular. Imagine that! If the American people were so stupid, they could have been talked into how wonderfully great this legislation is and they'd been out there signing up.



They'd be going nuts, throwing parties, talking about how they've all got free health care, but the American people are not that stupid and didn't fall for this. Obamacare has never enjoyed majority public support. You really can't outsmart free markets for very long. Reality eventually sets in and the lies end up uncovered. Markets work. Be they intellectual markets or economic markets, they work.



But you know what's really tied up in all this? The people of this country trusted Barack Obama, and in 2010 they still did. They thought they had created a moment in world history: Electing the first African-American president in a country that had featured slavery in its distant past. They trusted Obama. He was gonna fix everything. He was a new kind of man, a new kind of politician.



But not to me.



Folks, what's happened here is exactly why we have to go after the credibility these Democrats -- this includes Hillary -- before they are elected and it demonstrates itself.



We have to go after their credibility.



We have to just because we know we're right!



We can't afford to elect 'em anymore.



BREAK TRANSCRIPT



RUSH: So here comes Dana Milbank at the fledgling Washington Post, same thing's happening to them: "Why Obamacare Risks Falling into a 'Death Spiral' -- So it turns out there is an Obamacare death panel after all." See, there is. There are death panels, but this guy continues to deny the truth. You're not smart enough to deal with the reality of what a death panel really is. Sarah Palin came along and blew the whole thing by correctly naming the advisory board that determines who gets treatment and who doesn't. That's a death panel. That was one of those truths that the Obamacare architects could not allow out there. So they had to attack her, destroy her, again, and anybody else that picked up the mantra.



So on the left they continue living in their fantasy world, that Obamacare is not what it is. And what they don't understand is the whole country is away ahead of 'em. This stupid bunch of Americans are way ahead of the Drive-By Media, which is caught twisting and turning in the past trying to save an already ruined presidency. Well, ruined in the popular way presidencies are judged, presidential approval, blah, blah, blah. In terms of actual accomplishments that are attached to Obama's real goal, it's a very successful administration, transforming the country. But I don't want to get too intricate for this purpose here.



Dana Milbank is worried about the Supreme Court. That's the death panel for Obamacare. Oh, yeah. "It has nine members and it operates out of a marble building directly across the street from the Capitol. When the Supreme Court on Friday announced that it would take up another challenge to the Affordable Care Act in March, it delivered the threat of two mortal blows to the signature achievement of the Obama presidency. First, it raised the possibility that the justices, who narrowly spared the law in 2012, will in June come out with a new ruling that would dismantle the law on different grounds."



You know what a real threat or fear that the left has about this? They know that Obamacare is unconstitutional. They've known it since it was written. Gruber lets the cat out of the bag by saying we had to lie and we had to cover the transparency because of the stupidity of the American people. In other words, we had to lie in order to get this thing passed, because if people knew what it really was, it wouldn't stand the light of day, it wouldn't stand a chance.



The unconstitutionality is the Commerce Clause and the fact that the federal government can't force to you buy anything. They can't force you to buy anything. So that begot the argument, is it a mandate, is it a tax? The federal government can tax. But, no, it's not a tax. It's a fine. If you don't buy insurance, we're gonna fine you. They can't! The Fourth Amendment. They can't. However -- and this is the fear the left has -- they know that the Supreme Court just didn't want to go there. I mean, it was the first black president. It was a major signature legislation and it was for health care for the poor, and, okay, we'll look the other way.



So John Roberts did some finagling and found a way to make this thing sound constitutional. But the left knows that a whole bunch of chicanery took place. They know they're hanging by a thread. They know they're on thin ice here, and they know that a lot of justices -- well, they don't know, but I suspect they fear a lot of justices have been chomping at the bit for a second go round at this thing, 'cause it isn't constitutional, folks. If we were in a totally objective, nonpartisan, sane world, this law would have been struck down inside of three hours of it arriving at the Supreme Court.



The federal government simply cannot demand that we buy things. It's right there in the Commerce Clause in the Fourth Amendment. They cannot do it. Ways were achieved to mask what is really happening by calling these things fines if you don't buy it, blah, blah. So they know they're hanging by a thread, and they know they may be even on borrowed time. And now the court, the Supreme Court, decided to hear the case again, this time over subsidies. This is an area that in an objective, black and white, sane world, the Regime doesn't have a prayer.



The point of this is real simple. The only subsidies for Obamacare are available at state exchanges. Well, as you recall, most states did not set one up, and therefore the people in those states, according to the law, had no way of getting subsidized Obamacare. And, believe me, subsidized is the only way the vast majority of Americans can afford it, because it's so damned expensive. Subsidies meaning taxpayers pay a greater portion of your policy than you do. So when this eventuated, when the states, Republican governors in these states refused to set up exchanges, that left a whole lot of people out of the subsidies, and that just wasn't -- oh, we can't allow that politically. I mean, that would be political disaster for Obama.



He's out there promising everything's gonna get cheaper. He's promising the uninsured are gonna get insured. He's promising don't worry about what it costs, gonna be subsidized, except most people don't live in a state with an exchange. Oh, no. So the federal government violated its own law and set up its own exchanges, which, whoever wrote this law, Gruber, stupidly left in that the federal government could not set up its own exchanges. They had to be set up in the states.



By the way, there was a purpose for that.



That was to shift as much of the cost off to the states as they could to keep the overall final number under that precious $3 trillion figure. So Obamacare was written in a way to dump as much cost off to the states as possible, and that's when the governors said, "Unh-uh! We're not just gonna sit here and accept these new costs. We can't print money like you can."



So they didn't set up the exchanges.



It's the unintended consequences. The liberals think the people are just a bunch of sheep and whatever legislation comes down they're gonna abide by it and not find ways around it. Well, when they figured out that a whole bunch of people were not gonna be qualified for subsidies, the federal government violated Obamacare and created their own exchanges...



That's what the Supreme Court's gonna hear. The Supreme Court's essentially gonna hear: Are those subsidies that are being provided by the federal government constitutional? Are they part of the law, or has this whole thing been turned upside down? As Milbank writes about it, "But even if the justices make no such ruling," meaning, striking it down, "the very act of taking up the challenge to the law will itself undermine the law."



So Milbank is in fatalistic, defeatist mode because all the court had to do was take the case and that undermines it. If they'd have just flat-out rejected it, fine and dandy. But the Supreme Court has taken the case. They're gonna hear it; they're gonna have an opinion. It doesn't matter what the opinion is. The very fact they're taking the case undermines it. Why? Because Milbank and these people know that this thing is a crock.



Gruber and everybody lied about it. They created a bunch of falsehoods in it. It's unsupportable economically. The American people don't want it! But that doesn't matter to them. They want it. They want you subjected to it, subordinated to it -- and the very idea that the court's gonna look at it again is just gonna create (in the minds of all these stupid Americans) the idea that something's wrong with the law, and we can't have that.



"We've gotta get people finally accepting this and ignoring this and moving on to other things! The more attention on Obamacare, the greater the opportunity everybody's gonna find out the fraud that is in it." That's why they're quaking today. Just the fact that the case is being accepted, taken up by the court, has got them scared to death. And it has them scared because they know what a house of cards this thing is, folks.



BREAK TRANSCRIPT



RUSH: Peter in Reno, Nevada, heading back to the phones. Great to have you, sir. Hello.



CALLER: Hey, Rush. How are you? First-time caller.



RUSH: Great to have you here, sir. Thank you.



CALLER: Great. Regarding the professor's comments, Gruber, the only people that had to be fooled were every Democrat in the House and every Democrat in the Senate. Every Republican voted against it. The only ones apparently dumb enough to fall for it was every single Democrat.



RUSH: Well, I..



CALLER: And Biden.



RUSH: I know the point that you're trying to make, that the Democrats in Congress are idiots, too, but I don't ascribe Gruber's comments to them. They are part of the group participating in the fraud, sir. The Democrats in the House and the Democrats in the Senate who voted for this thing, they're not victims of the administration lying to them. They knew exactly what this was! They were coconspirators in this.



They knew exactly what was on tap here. They were just as eager for this thing to pass as Obama and Gruber and Ezekiel Emanuel and anybody else involved in this at the top tiers. They were not victims. They were not stupid. They knew exactly what they were voting for. They knew exactly what they were voting on. They knew exactly how to tell the lies. They knew exactly what to lie about. They were in on it. What the election proves is they didn't get away with it.



The American people are much smarter than the Democrats give them credit for.

END TRANSCRIPT

Soul Crusher

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"Let me say it as simply as I can: Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

Barack Obama, January 2009.

See him say it for yourself.



This is HUGE. It proves that Obamacare is premised on lies. And it proves more than that.

Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber:

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass… Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”
Here' that video again:



So how does it feel, Obama voters? How does it feel knowing that Obama counted on you being stupid and that you came through?

Over at The Hill Elise Viebeck characterizes it this way:

"The clip is generating significant attention in conservative media."
No shit. The question is, why isn't all of the media interested in this?

Answer? Because they are stupid. They are useful idiots.

Candy Crowley? VERY useful idiot:

Romney: Yeah, I -- I certainly do. I certainly do. I -- I think it's interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror. You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror. It was not a spontaneous demonstration.
Obama: Please proceed.

Romney: Is that what you're saying?

Obama: Please proceed, Governor.

Romney: I -- I -- I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.

Obama: Get the transcript.

Crowley: It -- he did in fact, sir. So let me -- let me call it an act of terrorism -- (inaudible)

Obama: Can you say that a little louder, Candy? (Laughter, applause.)

Crowley: He did call it an act of terror. It did as well take -- it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. You are correct about that.

Jeff Dunetz notes:

(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...

TOPICS: Government; Politics; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: gruber; obama; obamacare; Click to Add Keyword

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Liberals Try to Cover Up for Obamacare Architect
Rush Limbaugh.com ^  | November 11, 2014 | Rush Limbaugh

Rush is right.   Libs are carrying the water for Obamacare here. 


Soul Crusher

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Rush is right.   Libs are carrying the water for Obamacare here. 



Libfags carry water for every Obama disgrace

James

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LOL @ congress not even TRYING to impeach a dictator.

They woudl have probably been soft on similar dictators like Stalin or Mussolini. 

polychronopolous

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LOL @ congress not even TRYING to impeach a dictator.

They woudl have probably been soft on similar dictators like Stalin or Mussolini. 

Somehow I think you are going to be hammering away on this subject all the way until the day before he leaves office.  :D

Soul Crusher

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Obama is a historical disgrace and embarrassment.  He should and would be jailed if it were any other time but the pussy GOP and feckless communist demos afraid to lose the 95er vote wont do it

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In Third Video, Obamacare Architect Talks About ‘Basic Exploitation’ Of American Voters [VIDEO]
Daily Caller ^  | November 12, 2014 | Chuck Ross

Posted on ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2014‎ ‎10‎:‎48‎:‎09‎ ‎AM by C19fan

A third video has surfaced of Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber bragging about pulling the wool over the eyes of the American public in order to help implement Obamacare.

“It’s a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter,” Gruber, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said during a speech at the University of Rhode Island in November 2012.

He was discussing what is known as the Cadillac tax and how it came into being.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...

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BAUCUS: CBO Claims of Lower Premiums Came from Gruber [2009 FLASHBACK]
C-SPAN ^  | December 9, 2009 | Sen. Max Baucus

Posted on ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2014‎ ‎6‎:‎54‎:‎09‎ ‎AM by Oldeconomybuyer

In addition to CBO, MIT's Jon Gruber has also done a study on premiums. And what does he conclude? He concludes, using Congressional Budget Office data, the Senate bill could mean people purchasing individual insurance would save every year $200 for single coverage and $500 for family coverage in 2009 dollars. Most people think he is one of the best outside experts. He has big computer models. He takes the CBO data and, in some respects, he has helped CBO by giving some information to CBO that it otherwise does not have.

Mr. Gruber also points out that people with low incomes would receive premium tax credits that will reduce the price they pay for health insurance by as much as $2,500 to $7,500.

The Congressional Budget Office and Professor Gruber are both credible and unbiased sources that are not bought and sold by the insurance industry. The Congressional Budget Office and MIT's Gruber have confirmed what many of us have known: that the bill before us will lower premiums and provide a great many options for more comprehensive coverage.


(Excerpt) Read more at c-span.org ...

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Progressives Had To Lie To Pass Obamacare
http://leomcneil.net/2014/11/12/progressives-had-to-lie-to-pass-obamacare/ ^  | November 12, 2014 | Leo McNeil

Posted on ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2014‎ ‎7‎:‎50‎:‎02‎ ‎AM by LeoMcNeil

MIT economist Johnathan Gruber is the architect of both Romneycare and Obamacare. Speaking to a group of like minded progressives last year Gruber declared that “lack of transparency is a huge political advantage.” He went on to declare “and basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass.” He’s referencing, in part, the Obamacare tax. The administration and the Democrats had to hide from the American people to true cost of Obamacare. If voters knew the cost they wouldn’t support Obamacare. Thus it had to be hidden from the public and the Democrats could hide the truth because the public is to stupid to figure it out.

Gruber has since apologized for calling voters stupid. Such an apology is hollow and meaningless. By not calling the individual mandate a tax, the Democrats saved themselves from a massive CBO score on tax costs. Had the CBO scored Obamacare with the individual mandate tax, the Democrats wouldn’t have been able to push through the law. Gruber admits that the country was lied to and he admits that progressive Democrats believe we were to stupid to figure it all out. Interestingly the public has never supported Obamacare and never believed all of the pie in the sky figures about it. The Democrats lost two midterm elections, in part because of Obamacare. In the very least flipping 64 House seats in 2010 is sufficient evidence that the public isn’t quite as stupid as the progressives believe we are.

Gruber acknowledges what we’ve always known about progressives. The ends justify the means. For people like Gruber and Obama, it’s okay to lie to the public if it’s for the right cause. In the case of Obamacare, they apparently believe this was a right enough cause to lie to the public about. Of course the individual mandate tax isn’t the only thing they lied about, they’ve also lied about how many people would actually sign up for Obamacare. For the CBO they estimated 13 million would sign up in the second year. Earlier this week they predicted 9-10 million. With fewer actually enrolled, it’s unlikely Obamacare will come anywhere near breaking even. Had the CBO scored Obamacare with fewer predicted enrollees, the cost would have been to great for the Democrats to push it through Congress. Of course who could forget Obama’s absurd claims that Obamacare would reduce premiums by $2,500 or that we would be able to keep our doctor. Like the Obamacare tax, the progressives knew all along these claims weren’t true but they claimed them anyway because the ends justify the means.

The nice thing about Obamacare is that it has exposed the progressives for the lying manipulators they are. For all the excitement around hope and change in 2008, the public has soured on big government progressiveness. Obamacare alone has given us the individual mandate tax that we were lied to about. The government couldn’t get a website up and running last year in time for their open enrollment period. It took them months to fix the problem despite having three years to build the website and despite months of claiming everything was fine. This year they’re trying to come up with contingency plans because they’re still not confident the website will be able to handle all of their anticipated traffic. Between all of the lying and incompetence, Obamacare remains as unpopular today as it was when it was passed.

No doubt the progressives will tell us everything is working out great with Obamacare. There’s no reason to trust these people, they’re admitted liars. The Obamacare house of cards is going to topple one way or another. Either the Supreme Court will rule that subsidies aren’t available to people buying on the Federal exchange (the law specifically limits subsidies to purchasers on state exchanges only) which will topple the whole law or it will collapse because insurance companies start losing massive amounts of money due to the fact that people aren’t buying policies. More specifically the right people aren’t buying policies, those being the young and healthy. Had the progressives told us the truth about Obamacare, the bill never would have passed. For them the ends justify the means but you have to wonder if the entire law collapses whether that end will be worth the means. Single payer is highly unlikely at this point and the credibility of big government progressives has been shot. In the end, will it have been worth it?

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Why is the Strawman silent on this one?  I guess he can't cherry pick the argument and display his house of cards as he would like.

Dos Equis

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Has the MSM jumped all over this story yet?

Soul Crusher

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Has the MSM jumped all over this story yet?

Mika this morning was sort of shell shocked about it having to admit how bad we have been lied to. 

Dos Equis

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Mika this morning was sort of shell shocked about it having to admit how bad we have been lied to. 

Well that's a start. 

Soul Crusher

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Krauthammer: Obamacare Deception "Exactly What Conservatives Have Been Saying For Years," "True Voice Of Liberal Arrogance"








       
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Syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer ripped Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber and other supporters of healthcare reform for their "liberal arrogance" and "deception" when it came to passing the legislation on Tuesday's broadcast of FOX News' O'Reilly Factor. Krauthammer said supporters believed Americans are stupid and deception was the only way to "lead the masses to the promised land."

 "This is exactly what conservatives have been saying for four years, what we're hearing now is the true voice of liberal arrogance," Krauthammer said. "They believe this. They believe that the voters are stupid, as he said. And they believe that they know the right way, they have to lead the masses to the promised land and they can only do it by deception."

 Krauthammer also said this is a "scandal of the media" for not exposing what the bill really was, a massive transfer of wealth.

 "They lied about every aspect of this," Krauthammer said. "That is what has been charged all along and it is a scandal of the media that this has to be discovered in the sixth year of the presidency rather than talked about at the time when it was obvious they were lying about all this. The idea of it being a transfer of wealth was known from the beginning, but they got away with it."



BILL O'REILLY: Obamacare. Now you heard the MIT guy [Jonathan] Gruber saying, you know what? We conned everybody. They weren't paying attention. They don't really care. And it's not what it was sold as. And you say?

 CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: This is exactly what conservatives have been saying for four years, what we're hearing now is the true voice of liberal arrogance. They believe this. They believe that the voters are stupid, as he said. And they believe that they know the right way, they have to lead the masses to the promised land and they can only do it by deception. And that's what he said openly. We wanted to get the bill. We didn't care about how we did it so we lied about everything. We lied about if you can keep the plan knowing that you can't keep your plan. We lied about the fact that this would be a transfer of wealth, a massive transfer of wealth because, as Gruber said, had they known that, it would never have passed. They lied about every aspect of this. And I think that is what has been charged all along and it is a scandal of the media that this has to be discovered in the sixth year of the presidency rather than talked about at the time when it was obvious they were lying about all this. The idea of it being a transfer of wealth was known from the beginning, but they got away with it.

 O'REILLY: But really they didn't get away with it because the new Congress is going to gut the bill, and if there's a new president who is a Republican -- and I even think if Hillary Clinton is elected president, they'll have to redo Obamacare because they're going to tie it around her neck, particularly in a debate situation, around Mrs. Clinton's neck. Are you supporting this? Would you change it? Tell us how. So I don't thing Obamacare is going to last a long time in this country, Charles.

 KRAUTHAMMER: Well, I don't either. I do think probably the fatal blow will come from the Supreme Court. That's the key thing. In June we will get a ruling on whether the government is allowed to offer subsidies from the federal Obamacare exchange. Without that, it collapses.

Option D

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99% of liberals are communists at heart.    That's why.   This is why these fuck sticks need to go to NK and FNG leave the rest of us alone. 

source?



Dos Equis

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source?




Really?  That's your question in this thread?  Not outrage over the fact the president's people (and likely the president himself) think you are stupid?  That they admitted lying to you to get the bill passed?  

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Somehow I think you are going to be hammering away on this subject all the way until the day before he leaves office.  :D

I think impeachment must be OFF THE TABLE for EVERY PRESIDENT, EVER!

Because obama committed his crimes in 2009.  And for almost 5 years, repubs have bitching but done nothing about it.   He's not even HALFWAY thru his second term, but no, it's too late now?  Imagine if, ONE YEAR into her eight-year presidency, Hilary ships a million guns to Ukraine or Syria or maybe some rebel group in USA bent on killing americans... are yall gonna keep on saying "but no, we cant, but no, we cant..."

At some point, a crime is a crime and you prosecute, even if you may not win.  Shit, I cannot believe enforcement of the fucking LAW is so low on republicans to-do list.  Yes, we need fifty bills on this morality wedge issue or that, KNOWING we aren't going to win any of them, but noooooo can't do that with impeachement.

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I have never hesitated to say that most people are morons and that they are stupid in America.  I wish more people would say it.  They used to in the past.


http://www.greatbooks.org/index.php?id=301

The Natural Aristocracy by Thomas Jefferson
To John Adams

Monticello, October 28, 1813



I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly, bodily powers gave place among the aristoi [aristocrats]. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness, and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground for distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy, founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature, for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed, it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say, that that form of government is the best, which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendency.…I think the best remedy is exactly that provided by all our constitutions, to leave to the citizens the free election and separation of the aristoi from the pseudo-aristoi [pseudoaristocrats], of the wheat from the chaff. In general they will elect the really good and wise. In some instances, wealth may corrupt, and birth blind them, but not in sufficient degree to endanger the society.

…At the first session of our legislature after the Declaration of Independence, we passed a law abolishing entails [limitations on the inheritance of property to a specified succession of heirs]. And this was followed by one abolishing the privilege of primogeniture [the eldest child’s exclusive right of inheritance], and dividing the lands of intestates equally among all their children, or other representatives. These laws, drawn by myself, laid the ax to the foot of pseudoaristocracy. And had another which I prepared been adopted by the legislature, our work would have been complete. It was a bill for the more general diffusion of learning. This proposed to divide every county into wards of five or six miles square, like your townships; to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing, and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools, who might receive, at the public expense, a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects, to be completed at a university, where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and completely prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts….

With respect to aristocracy, we should further consider, that before the establishment of the American States, nothing was known to history but the man of the old world, crowded within limits either small or overcharged, and steeped in the vices which that situation generates. A government adapted to such men would be one thing, but a very different one, that for the man of these States. Here every one may have land to labor for himself, if he chooses; or, preferring the exercise of any other industry, may exact for it such compensation as not only to afford a comfortable subsistence, but wherewith to provide for a cessation from labor in old age. Every one, by his property, or by his satisfactory situation, is interested in the support of law and order. And such men may safely and advantageously reserve to themselves a wholesome control over their public affairs, and a degree of freedom, which, in the hands of the canaille [the masses] of the cities of Europe, would be instantly perverted to the demolition and destruction of everything public and private. The history of the last twenty-five years of France, and of the last forty years in America, nay of its last two hundred years, proves the truth of both parts of this observation.

But even in Europe a change has sensibly taken place in the mind of man. Science had liberated the ideas of those who read and reflect, and the American example had kindled feelings of right in the people. An insurrection has consequently begun, of science, talents, and courage, against rank and birth, which have fallen into contempt. It has failed in its first effort, because the mobs of the cities, the instrument used for its accomplishment, debased by ignorance, poverty, and vice, could not be restrained to rational action. But the world will recover from the panic of this first catastrophe. Science is progressive, and talents and enterprise on the alert. Resort may be had to the people of the country, a more governable power from their principles and subordination; and rank, and birth, and tinsel-aristocracy will finally shrink into insignificance, even there. This, however, we have no right to meddle with. It suffices for us, if the moral and physical condition of our own citizens qualifies them to select the able and good for the direction of their government, with a recurrence of elections at such short periods as will enable them to displace an unfaithful servant, before the mischief he meditates may be irremediable.

…A constitution has been acquired, which, though neither of us thinks perfect, yet both consider as competent to render our fellow citizens the happiest and the securest on whom the sun has ever shone. If we do not think exactly alike as to its imperfections, it matters little to our country, which, after devoting to it long lives of disinterested labor, we have delivered over to our successors in life, who will be able to take care of it and of themselves.

Option D

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Really?  That's your question in this thread?  Not outrage over the fact the president's people (and likely the president himself) think you are stupid?  That they admitted lying to you to get the bill passed?  


me commenting on this would mean i would have to comment everytime politics bait and switch. I was silent on the WMD bait and switch that affected millions of Americans for the most part as i remain silent on this horseshit. Ive always said...on this board.. that obamacare sucks and it should have been a shit or get off the pot thing. Universal healthcare for all has always been my stance as i hate to see other Americans suffer for profit. Its sickening.

What looks like push back from me is when we have some members of this board omitting facts to preach a political ideal. That totally sucks