Just booked my ticket to go see Richard Dawkins next week.

[Radical Plato]

Don't get me wrong, in a conversation between brothers in Christ I would not put my point across the way I did in that post. To you, I say that yes I 'know' God is real because the Holy Spirit bears witness in me that I am a child of 'Abba' Father. I can't explain my 'knowledge' outside of that concept (apart from my experiential knowledge, through personally witnessing healings, demons being cast out, prayers being instantaneously answered and so on). To another believer it's a different conversation, as the Spirit Himself is spiritually discerned so to speak..

Demons being cast out, Oh Brother.  I had no idea I was dealing with a whackjob of such magnitude.  I understood far more now what I am dealing with.  I often have to pinch myself and check the calendar when I read such nonsense.  Is this really the year 2014?

[Man of Steel]

I thought it was ridiculous. If God showed a prejudice against homosexuals, that by definition does indeed make him homophobic as the word is understood today.

Your logic would necesitate that God is also prejudiced against thieves, adulterers, liars and murderers and makes him thiefophobic, adultererphobic, liarphobic and murderphobic.

God redeems and cleanses the sinner and removes the sin.  He desires all come to him in surrender seeking righteousness.   

[Man of Steel]

So, all the people who also 'know' they are correct in choosing a God other than yours are simply mistaken.  Why is that?

We've discussed all this before....consult post history for same answers.  No offense intended either....I've just written this stuff so many times.

[B_B_C]

Well it does change things.  Sam argues by attaching a label to something carries real liabilities, especially if the thing you are naming isn't really a thing at all. And atheism, he argues, is not a thing. It is not a philosophy, just as “non-racism” is not one. Atheism is not a worldview—and yet most people imagine it to be one and attack it as such.

He argues by consenting to be labelled an atheist, we are consenting to be viewed as a marginal interest group that lacks credibility.  It also has been used to keep our criticism of religion at arm’s length, and has allowed people to dismiss our arguments without meeting the burden of actually answering them. 

Rather than declare ourselves “atheists” in opposition to all religion, Sam suggests we should do nothing more than advocate reason and intellectual honesty—and where this advocacy causes us to collide with religion, as it inevitably will, we should observe that the points of impact are always with specific religious beliefs—not with religion in general.

 "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

[BigCyp]

Demons being cast out, Oh Brother.  I had no idea I was dealing with a whackjob of such magnitude.  I understood far more now what I am dealing with. 

If you met me in person, you would not think I am a whackjob whatsoever, I am convinced of that.

I would clarify though, that I have not, and never would be a part of a church who are 'hyper' in terms of demon exorcism, or focused too much on that side of things. However, to share one quick story I was helping out a teenage Christian Camp for troubled kids one Summer and I cannot deny what I saw with my own eyes. By nature, a camp near any City in the U.K. will have a large percentage of African kids, either 1st or 2nd Generation, and have been exposed to a lot of traditional African 'Juju' etc. One night around 9pm, the kids were lining up to get a bedtime hot chocolate and out of the blue this 13 year old African girl falls to the ground and was clearly 'possessed' with another entity. She had no history of siezures or epilepsy etc, but her eyes had completely rolled back, her back arched at a very inhuman angle (is the best way to describe it) and it was like she was being held up by an invisible force. We tried to bring her around by speaking to her, comforting her etc, and in the end a few of the pastors came over and a group of us simply said the words "Come out of her now in the Name of Jesus Christ" and within seconds it was almost like you could see the angle the entity left her body at, immediately she was herself again and so grateful that 'it' was gone. We didn't set out to do this that night, but it happened.

[Radical Plato]

Your logic would necesitate that God is also prejudiced against thieves, adulterers, liars and murderers and makes him thiefophobic, adultererphobic, liarphobic and murderphobic.

God redeems and cleanses the sinner and removes the sin.  He desires all come to him in surrender seeking righteousness.   

No, it doesn't.  There is a reason there are no such terms.  The prejudice alluded to in the term homophopic is based on that it is an unreasonable dislike or hatred of someone or something.  In the case of thieves and murderers, it is reasonable to dislike such people.  One can put forward a reasonable and rational argument why such behavior would be disliked.

As for lying and adultery, I think god got it wrong on those counts too.  Lying is necessary and can be beneficial and the idea of confining one man and one woman together for life, even if against their will is ridiculous.  And even theft is questionable, in a truly 'Christian' society a man would have no need to steal if he had access to all the resources he needed, it is the greedy hoarding by some that precludes others from being able to get their basic needs met, necessitating theft for their survival.  Some would also argue murder is also acceptable under certain circumstances, especially when it prevents even greater numbers being murdered.

[Man of Steel]

If you met me in person, you would not think I am a whackjob whatsoever, I am convinced of that.

I would clarify though, that I have not, and never would be a part of a church who are 'hyper' in terms of demon exorcism, or focused too much on that side of things. However, to share one quick story I was helping out a teenage Christian Camp for troubled kids one Summer and I cannot deny what I saw with my own eyes. By nature, a camp near any City in the U.K. will have a large percentage of African kids, either 1st or 2nd Generation, and have been exposed to a lot of traditional African 'Juju' etc. One night around 9pm, the kids were lining up to get a bedtime hot chocolate and out of the blue this 13 year old African girl falls to the ground and was clearly 'possessed' with another entity. She had no history of siezures or epilepsy etc, but her eyes had completely rolled back, her back arched at a very inhuman angle (is the best way to describe it) and it was like she was being held up by an invisible force. We tried to bring her around by speaking to her, comforting her etc, and in the end a few of the pastors came over and a group of us simply said the words "Come out of her now in the Name of Jesus Christ" and within seconds it was almost like you could see the angle the entity left her body at, immediately she was herself again and so grateful that 'it' was gone. We didn't set out to do this that night, but it happened.

Awesome.....evil fleeing at the name of Jesus!!  Now that I can absolutely attest to this as I've experienced it many, many times personally.  Although, I never witnessed a possession in person (and don't really wanna either), but I've heard stories from pastors, in books and online/tv.

[BigCyp]

Awesome.....evil fleeing at the name of Jesus!!  Now that I can absolutely attest to this as I've experienced it many, many times personally.  Although, I never witnessed a possession in person (and don't really wanna either), but I've heard stories from pastors, in books and online/tv.

Amen!

I must say though, that my preconceived notions of it being something that would be a thrill to do were quickly stifled. You could sense that every full grown bloke there was filling their pants. A demon is not the best company.

[Radical Plato]

If you met me in person, you would not think I am a whackjob whatsoever, I am convinced of that.

Sorry, but if I met you in person and you mentioned demons and possession, that would trigger my "spider-sense" and I would politely disengage myself and avoid any further interaction as best I could.  I actually choose not to have religious people as part of my inner circle.   I know I can't avoid religious people, but I choose never to develop any meaningful relationships with them.  There are to many 'reasonable' and 'rational' people out there to waste time on the masses of deluded god botherers.  I have a few friends who claim to be spiritual and believe in a GOD, just  not the god of the bible.  But they don't try and preach religious nonsense and they good-naturedly accept my mocking of their crazy views. You have reinforced to me why It is wise to avoid such people.

[Man of Steel]

No, it doesn't.  There is a reason there are no such terms.  The prejudice alluded to in the term homophopic is based on that it is an unreasonable dislike or hatred of someone or something.  In the case of thieves and murderers, it is reasonable to dislike such people.  One can put forward a reasonable and rational argument why such behavior would be disliked.

As for lying and adultery, I think god got it wrong on those counts too.  Lying is necessary and can be beneficial and the idea of confining one man and one woman together for life, even if against their will is ridiculous.  And even theft is questionable, in a truly 'Christian' society a man would have no need to steal if he had access to all the resources he needed, it is the greedy hoarding by some that precludes others from being able to get their basic needs met, necessitating theft for their survival.  Some would also argue murder is also acceptable under certain circumstances, especially when it prevents even greater numbers being murdered.

You deny God and you deny sin.   The world justifies whichever sins they enjoy.  Nothing new here. 

Again, we've done this all before.....just consult my post history.

[BigCyp]

Sorry, but if I met you in person and you mentioned demons and possession, that would trigger my "spider-sense" and I would politely disengage myself and avoid any further interaction as best I could.  I actually choose not to have religious people as part of my inner circle.   I know I can't avoid religious people, but I choose never to develop any meaningful relationships with them.  There are to many 'reasonable' and 'rational' people out there to waste time on the masses of deluded god botherers.

Don't flatter yourself, i'd rather be seen playing golf with Shizzo than be accepted by you on facebook. All I was saying, is that I am not 'freaky' by any stretch of the imagination.

The only way you would know I believed in Demons, would be if we got onto the topic after 6 pints of lager  

[Man of Steel]

Sorry, but if I met you in person and you mentioned demons and possession, that would trigger my "spider-sense" and I would politely disengage myself and avoid any further interaction as best I could.  I actually choose not to have religious people as part of my inner circle.   I know I can't avoid religious people, but I choose never to develop any meaningful relationships with them.  There are to many 'reasonable' and 'rational' people out there to waste time on the masses of deluded god botherers.  You have reinforced to me why It is wise to avoid such people.

Those types of relationships are almost impossible to develop....oil and water. 

[Radical Plato]

Don't flatter yourself, i'd rather be seen playing golf with Shizzo than be accepted by you on facebook. All I was saying, is that I am not 'freaky' by any stretch of the imagination.

The only way you would know I believed in Demons, would be if we got onto the topic after 6 pints of lager  

I am skilled in getting people to open up very early on, it is rare for me to meet someone and not soon discover their inner workings and core beliefs.  Because I am very selective who I choose to spend time with, I make it a habit to learn about others quickly.

[Man of Steel]

I am skilled in getting people to open up very early on, it is rare for me to meet someone and not soon discover their inner workings and core beliefs.  Because I am very selective who I choose to spend time with, I make it a habit to learn about others quickly.

So you ask others, "Hey, what religion are you?" or "Say, where do you got to church?".  And if they say "I'm a Methodist" or "St. Lukes down on Culver Drive" your instincts tell you it's time to cut ties.  

[Radical Plato]

So you ask others, "Hey, what religion are you?" or "Say, where do you got to church?".  And if they say "I'm a Methodist" or "St. Lukes down on Culver Drive" your instincts tell you it's time to cut ties.  

No, Often I just talk about subjects related to religion or politics.  It could be anything from Mother Theresa, ISIS, The Pope, the Church's role in African overpopulation, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Stephen Hawking or sometimes I just reveal my own convictions.  Richard Dawkins is a good one to get people to expose their beliefs, as he is quite well known and religious people can't help but react to his name.  I once mentioned him to a customer who pulled the most sour of faces and went on to disparage him mercilessly.  I simply explored the reasons why he reacted that way and it wasn't long before he spilled his entire deluded belief system out for all to see. Homosexuality and the right for same sex marriage is also another good one to get people to expose their religion, as it is a rare Religious person who would support same sex marriage.  And because I hide my own convictions and talk using such a tone that suggests I am neutral and won't judge them either way, people feel free to open up to me believing that I am not judging what  they say.

[The True Adonis]

I am skilled in getting people to open up very early on, it is rare for me to meet someone and not soon discover their inner workings and core beliefs.  Because I am very selective who I choose to spend time with, I make it a habit to learn about others quickly.

Same here.  I can evaluate people extremely fast and most people reveal themselves very quickly and their entire belief system without even ever asking them directly.  Cues are so easy to pick up and they don`t even realize it.

[Man of Steel]

Same here.  I can evaluate people extremely fast and most people reveal themselves very quickly and their entire belief system without even ever asking them directly.  Cues are so easy to pick up and they don`t even realize it.

Christians are called to share their faith with others.

[The True Adonis]

Christians are called to share their faith with others.

And so then they should expect criticism and a thorough evaluation of their ideas.

[Man of Steel]

And so then they should expect criticism and a thorough evaluation of their ideas.

Agreed.  

This is why we're also told the following:

1 Peter 3:15
15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it.

I think most believers are ill-equipped to enter into discussion.  Questions are posed and they're left mouths agape and embarrassed or they begin insulting due to their insecurities because of their ignorance.  

[BigRo]

And so then they should expect criticism and a thorough evaluation of their ideas.

as you should yours, oh wait your immune as the burden of proof is on those who believe anything other than your materialistic framework so your excused 

[The True Adonis]

as you should yours, oh wait your immune as the burden of proof is on those who believe anything other than your materialistic framework so your excused  

I welcome it and all the evidence is accessible for everybody and is verifiable.  Religious morons don`t want criticism, and then when some are willing to be criticized, they throw a hissy fit and can`t produce anything other than a book conceived in myths and written by hearsay. No proof, nothing scientific, nothing verifiable, no evidence.  Nothing.

Materialistic?  Look at your own fucking self and your fake muscles.  What good do you do in the world?  Who do you help other than yourself with your bullshit "self-introspection" and meditation.  You are trying to enlighten only yourself with all your mumbo jumbo.  If anyone is materialistic and shallow its someone hopped up on steroids, meditating in a corner, looking for self guidance.

[BigRo]

So on the one hand you say you welcome criticism, go on to say how religious folk throw a hissy fit when asked for evidence then when your world view is called materialistic you meltdown and resort to vehemence.

[The True Adonis]

So on the one hand you say you welcome criticism, go on to say how religious folk throw a hissy fit when asked for evidence then when your world view is called materialistic you meltdown and resort to vehemence.

1. I was stating what they do. 
2. You have no idea what my world view is,
3. You are a shallow piece of shit only interested in yourself.  You have never done a goddamn thing for anyone or anything on this planet I bet other than for yourself.

[Man of Steel]

The problem is scientific methods are incompatible with the transcendant yet ironically are demanded to be forcefit into discussions of spirituality.  Natural methods can't measure or replicate supernatural properties (God).  Since God stands outside the natural, testable, observable world and he must be approached on his terms as set forth in scripture.  Either you are willing and desire to do so or you aren't and don't.   You don't demand things of God, you willfully submit to him....that's when he reveals himself......on his terms, not the world's.  

Proof is a subjective concept and is negotiable. Individuals differ in the amounts and types of validation to proof something.

[BigRo]

1. I was stating what they do. 
2. You have no idea what my world view is,
3. You are a shallow piece of shit only interested in yourself.  You have never done a goddamn thing for anyone or anything on this planet I bet other than for yourself.

yet your doing the exact same thing, you cannot even hold a rational discussion. You say I have no idea what your worldview is then go on to tell me about the effect my life has on the world, are you god or something?