12 year old shot and killed by police in Cleveland

[Conker]

How would you handle that? Try to take away millions of legally owned weapons from Constitution-lovers? How would you envision something like that playing out here?

Good, bad, right, wrong, we've a unique history that way. Guns have been American culture since its inception. Simply can't undo it at this point. Not that we (most) want to, anyway. We'll deal with our violent statistics for the right to defend life and property, should the need arise.

simple, gun amnesty. give people a year or so to give up their guns. then introduce a mandatory 5-10 year prison sentence for anyone caught illegally possessing a gun after the amnesty period.

well slavery was also part of american culture from it's inception. culture should evolve for the good of society.

[BB]

Fuck that. Just tell certain people to behave. As much as folks like to prattle on about gun violence, the majority is still suicide or drug and gang violence, and a bit of domestic intra family.

[el numero uno]

All that matters is he has the ability to pull a trigger.  You order the kid to keep his hands up and he reaches for a gun in his waist band.  You have 2 options, shoot him or assume it's fake.  Are you really gonna sit there and tell me you would assume it's fake?  So he pulls it and fires a shot killing your partner, what then?  Maybe this kid is just being mischievous but it doesn't change the outcome. Instead of focusing on chastising the police, maybe, the media should go after the parents or guardian of this kid.  Don't be shocked if the officer turns out to be black and you never hear of this again.

Yep, good point.

[The Ugly]

simple, gun amnesty. give people a year or so to give up their guns. then introduce a mandatory 5-10 year prison sentence for anyone caught illegally possessing a gun after the amnesty period.

well slavery was also part of american culture from it's inception. culture should evolve for the good of society.

This amnesty legislation alone would bring about uprising never before seen in our history. It would likely lead to revolution. It's like banning tea in the UK. Forget it, won't happen. We'll deal.

Slavery analogy is weak, as one is inherently wrong. In this case, yes, we evolved (as did those who taught us to enslave). Guns, on the other hand, aren't inherently bad. Unless you're an unarmed burglar.

[The Ugly]

Fuck that. Just tell certain people to behave. As much as folks like to prattle on about gun violence, the majority is still suicide or drug and gang violence, and a bit of domestic intra family.

Another good argument for guns. Until we legalize 'Right to Die' nationally, guns are much more expedient for ending chronic or terminal suffering. Fuck that hanging silliness.

[Conker]

This amnesty legislation alone would bring about uprising never before seen in our history. It would likely lead to revolution. It's like banning tea in the UK. Forget it, won't happen. We'll deal.

Slavery analogy is weak, as one is inherently wrong. In this case, yes, we evolved (as did those who taught us to enslave). Guns, on the other hand, aren't inherently bad. Unless you're an unarmed burglar.

rocket launchers aren't inherently bad either but there is no reason in a civilised society that people need to own them. why do you think that the US has such a problem with gun crime and random shooting sprees? don't generally have it in western europe...do you think americans are inherently bad or mental compared to people in europe?

can dance around the issue till the cows come home but it's patently obvious that it boils down to the number of guns in circulation.

[Tapeworm]

I would have shot him too.

[The Ugly]

rocket launchers aren't inherently bad either but there is no reason in a civilised society that people need to own them. why do you think that the US has such a problem with gun crime and random shooting sprees? don't generally have it in western europe...do you think americans are inherently bad or mental compared to people in europe?

can dance around the issue till the cows come home but it's patently obvious that it boils down to the number of guns in circulation.

You're responding to me as though I'm arguing the point. It is clearly the reason we have more gun violence; but they're already out there, most in safe hands, under the protection of a nationally treasured document. The fact that many are not in safe hands, though, causes the problem. Law-abiding Americans are not gonna willingly disarm themselves, knowing the outlaws don't give a shit about this proposed 'amnesty.'

But going back further, we reexamine the impetus for the 2nd Amendment. Many here remember our history quite well and are still a bit paranoid about tyrannical governments. God forbid it ever came to that. Still, you can't ignore the effect an armed population has on its would be tyrant. Keeps everyone honest. And if you've been paying attention to what's happening over here lately with our government, you might understand the paranoia isn't entirely unreasonable anymore.

So your weapon surrender solution is a nonstarter.

[Archer77]

rocket launchers
can dance around the issue till the cows come home but it's patently obvious that it boils down to the number of guns in circulation.

Prove this please.  Data and statistics request.

[muscleman-2013]

Fuck that. Just tell certain people to behave. As much as folks like to prattle on about gun violence, the majority is still suicide or drug and gang violence, and a bit of domestic intra family.

Yes it's trash that should be in jail, or loons who should be under permanent "care."   

[Archer77]

You're responding to me as though I'm arguing the point. It is clearly the reason we have more gun violence; but they're already out there, most in safe hands, under the protection of a nationally treasured document. The fact that many are not in safe hands, though, causes the problem. Law-abiding Americans are not gonna willingly disarm themselves, knowing the outlaws don't give a shit about this proposed 'amnesty.'

But going back further, we reexamine the impetus for the 2nd Amendment. Many here remember our history quite well and are still a bit paranoid about tyrannical governments. God forbid it ever came to that. Still, you can't ignore the effect an armed population has on its would be tyrant. Keeps everyone honest. And if you've been paying attention to what's happening over here lately with our government, you might understand the paranoia isn't entirely unreasonable anymore.

So your weapon surrender solution is a nonstarter.

No its not the reason.  It's a  who not what issue

[muscleman-2013]

How can the problem be solved, when very few people in America even realize they have a national mental health crisis?

[thegamechanger]

the solution here is obvious

BAN PLASTIC GUNS

if the kids played around with these type of weapons, like i did when i was a kid, it would never had happend

[Sokolsky]

Discharged two shots, yet only hits once? 

[The Ugly]

No its not the reason.  It's a  who not what issue

Not following, please explain.

[andreisdaman]

"Two police officers responded to the scene and ordered the boy to raise his hands, the police said, but he refused and reached for a gun in his waistband. An officer fired two shots, striking the boy once, the police said."

Typical rebellious black youth who struggles to comply with authority.

Hey are you that stupid that you actually believe what you quoted above?..does it actually make sense that a 12 year old would reach into his waistband..and confront armed cops witha toy gun..obviously a made up story because the cops fucked up..plain and simple

[andreisdaman]

the solution here is obvious

BAN PLASTIC GUNS

if the kids played around with these type of weapons, like i did when i was a kid, it would never had happend

it would have if you were black

[pedro01]

12 year olds vary in size.

My own 12 year old recently outgrew my shoes. He's as tall as some of his teachers and he's built like a tank. At a distance, he could easily be mistaken for a 17 year old just based on his size.

So I have to wonder how big this kid in Cleveland is.

Then on the toy gun thing... My lad being quite big gets some real funny looks 'cause he's still 12 inside, even though he looks older. So he's quite happy walking down the road swinging a wooden sword and pretending to be Luke Skywalker. He get some funny looks 'cause people thing he must be older and a bit retarded... I just walking around shrugging at people a lot.

At 12, yes I can totally see a harmless kid walking around with a toy gun provided by an adult and being quite happy drawing it every 10 seconds and shooting imaginary foes. No right or wrong about it - just pure fun.

If the cops approached him and shouted "drop the gun", I know what my son would do. He's shit his pants and drop the gun. Although it's possible he'd do it in such a way that he inadvertently looked like he was drawing the gun. If it was in his pocket, he'd probably go straight for it so he could comply quickly. I would not credit him with the sense to move in a slow and controlled manner so that the cops didn't think he was drawing on them.

People that say "he should have known better" have most likely not spent much time around 12 year olds. They are fairly smart but very prone to doing dumb shit.

I think the video needs to come out. That way you'd have a better handle on what occurred.

In my day, toy guns never looked like real guns and I think the parents have a lot of responsibility here. My son has a ton of toy guns - mostly nerf guns and they are way more fun for a 12 year old than a BB gun.

[pedro01]

the solution here is obvious

BAN PLASTIC GUNS

if the kids played around with these type of weapons, like i did when i was a kid, it would never had happend

Or maybe just.....



common sense?

[Archer77]

Not following, please explain.

Conker is incorrect.  It's not the number of guns in circulation that is the problem.  Correlation does not imply causation. If it did, the majority of legal gun owners in the country would be committing the bulk of the crime.  This is demonstrably false.

[Conker]

Prove this please.  Data and statistics request.

go and look at murder rates, and gun crime in western europe then compare those figs with the US. culturally, socially and economically these are the most similar societies to the US on earth. the number of guns in circulation really is the most logical and glaringly obvious reason for such disparity between the two sides for these crimes. i could provide you with links to the data but i'm sure you're capable of a quick google search . the data is not hard to find.

[Archer77]

go and look at murder rates, and gun crime in western europe then compare those figs with the US. culturally, socially and economically these are the most similar societies to the US on earth. the number of guns in circulation really is the most logical and glaringly obvious reason for such disparity between the two sides for these crimes. i could provide you with links to the data but i'm sure you're capable of a quick google search . the data is not hard to find.

Look at where these crimes occur and who is committed them.  It's not the bulk of gun owners committing these crimes.  If there was causation crime would be clustered in areas where guns were most prevalent but that's not true.

[Drogon]

I really don't give a fuck about this. I just want to see a muscular man in a thong.

[SuperTed]

if guns are not the problem then why do you have such a disproportionate problem with random shooting sprees in schools and other public places and gun crime in general compared with the nations in western europe that you are most similar too economically and socially.

it is blatantly obvious it is down to having too many guns in circulation.

It depends really. Switzerland for instance has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world but is also one of the safest nations to live in.

I think the idea of a gun amnesty in the US is a moot point anyway - there would be a civil war if the government tried to enforce it.

[andreisdaman]

Look at where these crimes occur and who is committed them.  It's not the bulk of gun owners committing these crimes.  If there was causation crime would be clustered in areas where guns were most prevalent but that's not true.

there is causation in that guns "magically" migrate to places where guns laws are tough and guns are not even manufactured....like to New York...from [places such as Florida and Virginia