Nautilus

[oldtimer1]

Anyone here old enough to remember how the machines and system were pushed as the scientific break through to bodybuilding's holy grail of an optimal way to train?

I first became aware of Arthur Jones through his articles in IronMan magazine back in the day. They were incredibly pervasive in his thoughts on the best way to train. It was a big step above most of the hyperbole usually presented. Many including myself were drawn to it's HIT rhetoric and tales of the scientific strength curve cam designs. Back then the usual champ routines presented in the magazines were marathon high volume with tales of  unbelievable poundage's used. Who could not be drawn to short routines repeated twice or three times a week? They preached success was genetics and an incredible work effort.

Soon his blue machines were making there way in the few bodybuilding gyms that existed. There were even more than a few pure Nautilus gyms. Every bodybuilder who trained were dying to get their hands on these magic machines. Realize for the most part only very conventional machines existed. Many of the machines we see in gyms today can be traced in some manner to Nautilus.

The usual Nautilus routine back in the day was using 9 to 12 exercises working from the largest body part to the smallest. Some of the machines were designed to take advantage of Robert Kennedy's theory on pre exhaustion.  I don't remember Nautilus giving him any credit regarding this.

I was at college when suddenly the school's gym was filled with recently bought 12 shiny brand new Nautilus machines. I now had my chance. Originally they were plate loading. If memory serves me correct and I could be wrong I believe it was Bill Pearl who told Jones that a weight stack with a pin selector would be an improvement. Many of the machines to this day were the best I ever used. The pullover machine was just incredible. Yates and Arnold both were fans.  As a whole they were really well designed and thought out. Some were misses. Many have said the fly part of the fly bench machine was a shoulder killer. I know back then I had perfect shoulders and I could never use the angle of that machine without having shoulder issues. However many of the machines like the leg extension were just out of this world good.

In the end they fell out of popularity and one by one the pure Nautilus machine gyms started to close. Truth be told most of the bodybuilding stars they held up as Nautilus success stories were already champions who used volume. Arthur Jones last gift was MedX machines. They are truly state of the art.  His son I believe Gary Jones designed many of the Hammer Strength machines that are ubiquitous in every gym.

What is surprising is that there are still a few HIT gyms devoted to Arthur Jones. One is in Belmar, NJ. He has Nautilus and MedX machines. Everyone is instructed to follow Jones protocol regarding training. My job sent me there years ago as part of a training certification they were providing. I was in really good condition both strength wise and cardio.  The owner who probably had the biggest neck on a human I ever seen tried to kill me. LOL.  I only was directed if my memory serves me to do about 5 exercises. In between exercises he had me sprint on an exercise bike for about a minute or two.  All exercise were to failure with many forced reps. I thought I was going to puke because there was zero rest. All high intensity. I think he was trying to prove you can take a person in outstanding shape and break them quickly through HIT proving short routines were all you need. The problem is who could train like that? Who would want too?  If you're a runner you can put everything you got into one quarter mile sprint and go home but who could train like that as a regular routine?

Guys who follow Arthur Jones are a hard core devoted group. Many call it almost a  religious zealotry in their intolerance. They tolerate no other view point. The problem is they can't agree on what the definition of HIT is. Also there is many falsehoods such as Sergio Oliva was a result of Nautilus. He went to Jones for a few weeks. He used volume prior and after his visit. Sitting in machines is obviously not a complete system of training.

Arthur Jones left an incredible legacy. He promoted high intensity. He said old school whole body routines were actually the most scientific way to train instead of a split. His machines stand the test of time.

[Yev33]

Even though I don't follow the training principles popularized by Jones, I think he was a very important person for bodybuilding. Even though I don't agree with his theories I think it's great that thanks to him we started talking about more efficient ways to train. He stirred the pot which promoted discussion.  He was a great business man and knew how to make money from the fitness industry without having to resort to selling snake oil.

Having said this, I do think that he may have set the physical culture back a bit with his machines (no matter how great some of them were). I believe that a person can achieve 75% of their physical potential with a barbell,  power rack, adjustable bench, assortment of dumbells, and a pull up/dip station.  The more advanced you become that's when you throw in the machines because at this point you will know why you are using them. But when you walk into a modern gym 75% of the non cardio space is taken up by machines. And now we have PlanetDickless who make people feel comfortable with being out of shape and discourage serious trainers from singing up by getting rid of freeweights and making anyone with a decent body look like a bully.

[oldtimer1]

I think you can achieve 100% of physical potential with a barbell, dumbbell, adjustable bench, dumbbells and pull up/dips.  Anything extra is just extras. Not mandatory to increase performance in athletics but maybe necessary to be posing warrior.

You're right the basics can't be improved upon. An Arthur Jones follower would counter that a barbell is just a tool and a Nautilus machine is a better tool. I won't go onto my opinions now because I will type forever. The body does work as a system and should not be thought of as body parts. Training also has to include standing resistance exercises.

[Donny]

I think you can achieve 100% of physical potential with a barbell, dumbbell, adjustable bench, dumbbells and pull up/dips.  Anything extra is just extras. Not mandatory to increase performance in athletics but maybe necessary to be posing warrior.

You're right the basics can't be improved upon. An Arthur Jones follower would counter that a barbell is just a tool and a Nautilus machine is a better tool. I won't go onto my opinions now because I will type forever. The body does work as a system and should not be thought of as body parts. Training also has to include standing resistance exercises.

there are advantages and disadvantages to Nautilus Machines, working a muscle evenly through a complete range of motion "accommodating resistance". I think you can use it for pre exhaust and other intelligent forms of advanced training. Rich is correct for a posing Warrior every facet of training counts. Use what you have at your disposal..both free weights and machines if you can. At the end of the Day Barbells and Basics have stood the test of time.

[funk51]

 

[Donny]

Definitely Funky Bro.. 

[oldtimer1]

Sergio was strong using the pullover but couldn't compare to this guy.

[oldtimer1]

Mike Mentzer tried to out do the gorilla and failed.

[jpm101]

I got the chance to read a copy of Art Jones original  White Paper. Loaned to me, it was passed around like the holy Bible. I was 16 at the time and the year was 1988. Jones departure from the accepted training ideas at the time big time. One of his first inventions was a wrist/forearm device.

Jones believed that the common BB was a very effective tool for achieving muscle and strength gains, and in a relative short time. But that did have limits. Hence the three phase nautilus designed cam/gear. A contracting muscle has three phases when going through a full ROM; weakest, middle and to the strongest phases. With the nautilus cam, all three phases were  worked to near their fullest abilities. With a BB (or DB) that's never going to happen. Going to take way too long to give examples of all this..so a search would be advises, if interested. (just to note, the closest approach to the function of the nautilus cam may be different levels ((phases)) of pin settings in a power rack..a very rewarding way of training)

Jones also wrote about the affect on the CNS and points of failure with any given workout: momentary, temporary and complete failure. He also suggested 1 or 2 sets only, 3 the complete max on any exercise.  Actually the CNS may be the key to progressive gains with any style of training...BB'er and certainly power or Olympic lifting. Full body workout were something else he greatly approved of, understanding that the body works and functions as a unit and should be trained that way.

Just a personal theory (whatever) but with the Nautilus machines, not being happy with that alone, guys keeps adding more exercise to the workouts. Which just produced an over load on the CNS, slowing and stopping any future gains.  Example might be a guy hitting the back. Might use the Nautilus pullover machine, than do cable rows, pulldowns and DB rows....maybe 15 to 18 sets total workout. This is a case of more not being better...which can be applied to most BB'ing workouts. And when the magic gains are halted, they blame the Nautilus machine of not being good for them. Jones stated that short and to the point workouts would give the most results in the shortest time.  I have always degree on this point.

I have use the Nautilus pullover machine. That one had a short lat/pulldown bar directly overhead. Idea was after the set of pullovers were done you immediately grabbed the short overhead bar and finished with curl grip lat pull down's.  The original Nautilus hip/back machine was also outstanding. May rehab centers have Nautilus, and Nautilus style, machines. Believe Jones, and family, made all their big bucks from medical rehab design equipment.

Good Luck.

[Donny]

I got the chance to read a copy of Art Jones original  White Paper. Loaned to me, it was passed around like the holy Bible. I was 16 at the time and the year was 1988. Jones departure from the accepted training ideas at the time big time. One of his first inventions was a wrist/forearm device.

Jones believed that the common BB was a very effective tool for achieving muscle and strength gains, and in a relative short time. But that did have limits. Hence the three phase nautilus designed cam/gear. A contracting muscle has three phases when going through a full ROM; weakest, middle and to the strongest phases. With the nautilus cam, all three phases were  worked to near their fullest abilities. With a BB (or DB) that's never going to happen. Going to take way too long to give examples of all this..so a search would be advises, if interested. (just to note, the closest approach to the function of the nautilus cam may be different levels ((phases)) of pin settings in a power rack..a very rewarding way of training)

Jones also wrote about the affect on the CNS and points of failure with any given workout: momentary, temporary and complete failure. He also suggested 1 or 2 sets only, 3 the complete max on any exercise.  Actually the CNS may be the key to progressive gains with any style of training...BB'er and certainly power or Olympic lifting. Full body workout were something else he greatly approved of, understanding that the body works and functions as a unit and should be trained that way.

Just a personal theory (whatever) but with the Nautilus machines, not being happy with that alone, guys keeps adding more exercise to the workouts. Which just produced an over load on the CNS, slowing and stopping any future gains.  Example might be a guy hitting the back. Might use the Nautilus pullover machine, than do cable rows, pulldowns and DB rows....maybe 15 to 18 sets total workout. This is a case of more not being better...which can be applied to most BB'ing workouts. And when the magic gains are halted, they blame the Nautilus machine of not being good for them. Jones stated that short and to the point workouts would give the most results in the shortest time.  I have always degree on this point.

I have use the Nautilus pullover machine. That one had a short lat/pulldown bar directly overhead. Idea was after the set of pullovers were done you immediately grabbed the short overhead bar and finished with curl grip lat pull down's.  The original Nautilus hip/back machine was also outstanding. May rehab centers have Nautilus, and Nautilus style, machines. Believe Jones, and family, made all their big bucks from medical rehab design equipment.

Good Luck.

There is some truth to Jones theories but i think i will agree with Bill Pearl. He stated in a Coversation with A Jones he did very well without Nautilus Machines which he was offered free of charge. He did use the Pullover Machine but i think his development was from volume and free weights. AJ and mentzer were very influential in Bodybuilding. still... I will go with Pearl.

[jpm101]

Only problem I had with the pullover Nautilus machine, was cramming my body into it. Not all that tall (6'2 & 245) myself, guy's taller might run into a very tight squeeze. I would be what would be termed a wide body (an American sports term) in the shoulder/back area. The Nautilus shoulder/delt machine was also a very tight fit.

PrimeMuscle has worked at a Nautilus style gym, wonder if he has any commit.

The one's that Sergio and Mentzer are using seem to be the original concept, but the later designs are different (not the cam) from the one I worked on....that one seemed of a stronger construction. Sergio & Mentzer were of average height (maybe 5'7 to 5'9), but my elbows just about didn't fit on the pads at due center.  Taller, wider longer armed men might find a problem there also.

Art Jones applied a more logical approach to his exercise ideas (not his machines), though his methods were nothing new in lifting. Trainers have been preaching full body, few sets and fewer workout days a week for almost a century now (maybe even longer). . Mentzer, a more radical approach. Hitting a workout every 2-3 weeks can seem a bit extreme in logic.  And those one set wonders took around 3 to 5 sets of warmups (?) before starting. In some cases, before his death, not much anything in the way of a warmup, I have been told by a few Venice Beach old vets. Not any dissing of the Mentzer or his brother, just saying.

Good Luck.

[Donny]

Only problem I had with the pullover Nautilus machine, was cramming my body into it. Not all that tall (6'2 & 245) myself, guy's taller might run into a very tight squeeze. I would be what would be termed a wide body (an American sports term) in the shoulder/back area. The Nautilus shoulder/delt machine was also a very tight fit.

PrimeMuscle has worked at a Nautilus style gym, wonder if he has any commit.

The one's that Sergio and Mentzer are using seem to be the original concept, but the later designs are different (not the cam) from the one I worked on....that one seemed of a stronger construction. Sergio & Mentzer were of average height (maybe 5'7 to 5'9), but my elbows just about didn't fit on the pads at due center.  Taller, wider longer armed men might find a problem there also.

Art Jones applied a more logical approach to his exercise ideas (not his machines), though his methods were nothing new in lifting. Trainers have been preaching full body, few sets and fewer workout days a week for almost a century now (maybe even longer). . Mentzer, a more radical approach. Hitting a workout every 2-3 weeks can seem a bit extreme in logic.  And those one set wonders took around 3 to 5 sets of warmups (?) before starting. In some cases, before his death, not much anything in the way of a warmup, I have been told by a few Venice Beach old vets. Not any dissing of the Mentzer or his brother, just saying.

Good Luck.

yes i agree prime (Jay) did speak highly of a Gym with Nautilus machines... Feedback Jay ?

[local hero]

We have the nautilus pullover in our gym, the same as dorians model, I don't like it to be honest, I have a good feeling in all the other back movements I do too..

[oldtimer1]

Arnold using the pullover. The design has changed a few times.

[oldtimer1]

I got the chance to read a copy of Art Jones original  White Paper. Loaned to me, it was passed around like the holy Bible. I was 16 at the time and the year was 1988. Jones departure from the accepted training ideas at the time big time. One of his first inventions was a wrist/forearm device.

Jones believed that the common BB was a very effective tool for achieving muscle and strength gains, and in a relative short time. But that did have limits. Hence the three phase nautilus designed cam/gear. A contracting muscle has three phases when going through a full ROM; weakest, middle and to the strongest phases. With the nautilus cam, all three phases were  worked to near their fullest abilities. With a BB (or DB) that's never going to happen. Going to take way too long to give examples of all this..so a search would be advises, if interested. (just to note, the closest approach to the function of the nautilus cam may be different levels ((phases)) of pin settings in a power rack..a very rewarding way of training)

Jones also wrote about the affect on the CNS and points of failure with any given workout: momentary, temporary and complete failure. He also suggested 1 or 2 sets only, 3 the complete max on any exercise.  Actually the CNS may be the key to progressive gains with any style of training...BB'er and certainly power or Olympic lifting. Full body workout were something else he greatly approved of, understanding that the body works and functions as a unit and should be trained that way.

Just a personal theory (whatever) but with the Nautilus machines, not being happy with that alone, guys keeps adding more exercise to the workouts. Which just produced an over load on the CNS, slowing and stopping any future gains.  Example might be a guy hitting the back. Might use the Nautilus pullover machine, than do cable rows, pulldowns and DB rows....maybe 15 to 18 sets total workout. This is a case of more not being better...which can be applied to most BB'ing workouts. And when the magic gains are halted, they blame the Nautilus machine of not being good for them. Jones stated that short and to the point workouts would give the most results in the shortest time.  I have always degree on this point.

I have use the Nautilus pullover machine. That one had a short lat/pulldown bar directly overhead. Idea was after the set of pullovers were done you immediately grabbed the short overhead bar and finished with curl grip lat pull down's.  The original Nautilus hip/back machine was also outstanding. May rehab centers have Nautilus, and Nautilus style, machines. Believe Jones, and family, made all their big bucks from medical rehab design equipment.

Good Luck.

What "white paper" written by Jones are you referring too?  I own Arthur Jones original bulletin 1 where he reveals his thoughts on training for the first time for the masses.

[jpm101]

White Paper is a term used for a special report and/or extra explaining of an issue of perhaps a more complex nature. Usually is used to clear up points for a better understanding. White Paper reports also go into more detail and are used in government, business, university, medical, tech or just about any subject matter. Tend to be of the serious and factual nature....sometime not. " White Paper" can also be used in American sarcasm, in some circles.

The Art Jones bulletin #1 can be called a white paper. Don't know how many Art Jones bulletins were released back in the day..1, 2, 3..... whatever. The one I first read was called Jones's white paper by the guy I got it from and by other people. I have used that name ever since. Any information I relate is sourced from the white paper (bulletin #1?.....don't know)

This older gentleman also died about 10 years ago. His wife threw away his huge stack of old original IronMan mag's (priceless) and the white paper referred too.

Good Luck.

[Mawse]

Nautilus xp load line is about as good as they get in my experience but I've not tried many of the vintage pieces people rave about

I've heard their precursor to the hammer leg press is a better machine which doesn't surprise me.. Life/hammer has actually gone backwards in the last two decades with their machines.

Every now and again I see something like a duo squat pop up on craigslist but I can't justify any more pieces just yet

[kimo]

was a good machine nautilus pullover was fine . so was their leg press . for varierty i trained on their machine. the drawback was the  price

[ergo]

I own every MedX Avenger except the 4 way neck and I own every MedX selectorized. I have video's using all of these great machines if you would like to see them and many other rare hard to find machines in action. YouTube search ryan ergo for my channel.