Author Topic: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage  (Read 57913 times)

Ronnie Rep

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2014, 07:04:18 AM »
Will they ever learn, Don't Resist! Don't give the cops a reason to use deadly force.

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Re: THIS should be the real Ferguson outage
« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2014, 07:05:30 AM »
Besides, what do you want?  Cops HAVE to have the ability to use force at times.  The laws apply to all people.  

What exactly do you want?  

well it would be nice if when cops are caught going against procedure and using an illegal tactic that has been banned, which then causes the death of a suspect who was engaged in a non-violent crime, and such incident is caught on VIDEO TAPE, that the expectation would be that the cop is indicted and fired...I think thats reasonable

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Re: THIS should be the real Ferguson outage
« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2014, 07:06:49 AM »
well it would be nice if when cops are caught going against procedure and using an illegal tactic that has been banned, which then causes the death of a suspect who was engaged in a non-violent crime, and such incident is caught on VIDEO TAPE, that the expectation would be that the cop is indicted and fired...I think thats reasonable

Same thing happened in the Kelly Thomas case. 
A

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2014, 07:08:02 AM »
Will they ever learn, Don't Resist! Don't give the cops a reason to use deadly force.

I have a feeling that he knew that somebody was video taping the event. So he figured that he'd be safe as he voiced his frustrations.

I bet if he was alone, he would have complied 100%

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2014, 07:15:32 AM »
The cop didn't make this goofy cigg tax law. BUT as officer of the law he is charged with enforcing it.
If a  man refuses to comply, what do you do?

if the man refuses, you do what you are trained to do - take him down with a legal move.  Keep him on the ground with a legal move.  That fat man wasn't standing back up with 5 cops on his back.  The choke hold was banned and wasn't necessary. 

he wasn't getting away.  his fat ass was slow and weak and was already flat on ground.  They were zip tying him.  The choke hold was a PUNISHMENT, not a tactic for control.  He was choked not to save lives or stop an out-of-control situation.  The cop was pissed at this fat a-hole selling smokes and trying to walk away from a cop's order, and wanted him to feel some pain.


THAT Is the problem.   When cops decide they want to get a little extra in - and in some cases, the person getting an extra choke, kick, shove,  just happens to have health problems.   Death from chokehold WAS a foreseeable outcome - WHICH IS WHY IT WAS BANNED.


I dont get it... Excusing a deadly move because "Oh, he should have listened..."   Fuck that.  Cop used a deadly move on a man already getting zip tied on the concrete who posed no threat to anyone.  You give cops that kinda power, don't be surprised when cops are choking YOU because you took too long to pull over becuase you didn't see them behind you.  Dont give them that permission to use deadly moves when not needed, as punishment.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2014, 07:16:04 AM »
What Branch of the government do Law Enforcement officers fall under?

Most, if not all, Federal LEO fall under the Executive branch. State and local level LEOs fall under state and local jurisdiction and it varies from state to state.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #131 on: December 04, 2014, 07:18:17 AM »
Will they ever learn, Don't Resist! Don't give the cops a reason to use deadly force.

This will pretty much double your life chances lol.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #132 on: December 04, 2014, 07:26:18 AM »
LOL@ calling that a deadly move.

He wasn`t being "choked" out.  Basically his own fat neck rolls made it hard for him to breathe and his heart overcompensated.

The "chokehold" was not the cause of death, nor was there any intent to kill this man.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2014, 07:26:47 AM »
The problem isn't just resisting.   Let's say we give permission for cops to use deadly moves, in face of non-deadly action like "resisting".

So the cops pull you over for running a red light that you skimmed through, or for going 61 in a 55mph.    You're dealing with screaming kids in your car, you're looking for the exit, and to be honest, you just don't see the cop behind you with lights on.  Finally, he has to hit the siren, after 30 seconds of lights only.  He's pissed.  So you know they yell if you break law while pulling over, so you turn on signal and take another30 seconds to find a turn off.  

Cop pulls you out of car and delivers chokehold.  You didnt obey his command.  He doesn't know of your health condition, and you die on ground.  Because this cop determined your continued driving was fleeing, eluding.  Hey, bummer we gave cops ability to use deadly force.

Apply this elsewhere.  You have 20 cops arrive at a nightclub to break up a parking lot fight.  You have 3 cops giving you conflicting orders.  You obey cop #2 and cop #1 decides BOOM, he disobeyed me, he's resisting, time to choke him til his air is gone.

There are lots of time with noise, conflicting orders, traffic, and when the person might be just a little drunk or sick or whatever, where they dont listen fast enough to the cop, but sure don't present a deadly force.  You give cops ability to use deadly force in there, and it might happen to YOU one day.   you're on the porch with 3 glasses of wine in you on a friday night.  Cop driving by decides you look like a suspect for a crime.  If you finish your text message or go to take a piss when he gives a vague order, BOOM, chokehold,bitch.

You CANNOT give them the power to use death move in non-deadly situation.  Or they will use that shit all the time.  Theyll use it to break up high school football bleacher fights.  They'll use it when they want - and one day, it WILL affect someone you love.  Dont give them that power.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2014, 07:27:01 AM »
My knee jerk response is to say the cop broke NYPD policy. Guilty. However, I now hear the fat fuck was alive when he went to the hospital and just maybe the autopsy (which was not out when many officials agreed it was a choke hold) will show no air passage breathing injury and he died from heart failure in the hospital due to obesity and asthma. IF that's the case....cops can not give a physical to everyone they take down who fights arrest. Had he offered his wrists he would be alive today with a triple cheese Big Mac and super size fries on his plate. I will now wait for release of the autopsy.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2014, 07:28:40 AM »
if the man refuses, you do what you are trained to do - take him down with a legal move.  Keep him on the ground with a legal move.  That fat man wasn't standing back up with 5 cops on his back.  The choke hold was banned and wasn't necessary. 

he wasn't getting away.  his fat ass was slow and weak and was already flat on ground.  They were zip tying him.  The choke hold was a PUNISHMENT, not a tactic for control.  He was choked not to save lives or stop an out-of-control situation.  The cop was pissed at this fat a-hole selling smokes and trying to walk away from a cop's order, and wanted him to feel some pain.


THAT Is the problem.   When cops decide they want to get a little extra in - and in some cases, the person getting an extra choke, kick, shove,  just happens to have health problems.   Death from chokehold WAS a foreseeable outcome - WHICH IS WHY IT WAS BANNED.


I dont get it... Excusing a deadly move because "Oh, he should have listened..."   Fuck that.  Cop used a deadly move on a man already getting zip tied on the concrete who posed no threat to anyone.  You give cops that kinda power, don't be surprised when cops are choking YOU because you took too long to pull over becuase you didn't see them behind you.  Dont give them that permission to use deadly moves when not needed, as punishment.
It would have been probably legal to taze him.  That would have certainly killed him.  It would have been legal to pepper spray him.  That would have certainly killed him.  No way his heart would have taken that either.

The only way he would have lived that day is if he went a long quietly.  Who knows even then, maybe his heart would have stopped in the back of the car.  People like him have a high chance of dying and die everyday because they are fatsos.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2014, 07:33:21 AM »
Where is the outrage.  :D





http://www.officer.com/news/12004432/nj-police-officer-dies-after-heart-attack


N.J. Police Officer Dies After Heart Attack
Officer.com News On Sep 17, 2014

The Newark, N.J. Police Department is mourning the death of a veteran officer who suffered a fatal heart attack while on duty Tuesday.

Officer Reinaldo Arocha Jr. went into cardiac arrest around 7:15 a.m. while working his usual post in the Fourth Precinct, according to The Star-Ledger.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2014, 07:34:15 AM »
It would have been probably legal to taze him.  That would have certainly killed him.  It would have been legal to pepper spray him.  That would have certainly killed him.  No way his heart would have taken that either.

The only way he would have lived that day is if he went a long quietly.  Who knows even then, maybe his heart would have stopped in the back of the car.  People like him have a high chance of dying and die everyday because they are fatsos.

oh i agree the man was 600 pounds of shit in a 400 pound condom.   I dont give a single care that he died from his shit health.  I wouldn't have cared if the dude died from a taser - it would have been a legal move.
 
My care is that the cop used a choke hold, a banned move.  Whether it killed him, or something else, it was used.  On video.  It's banned.  Not up for debate.  Cop used it when 4 other cops were already on top of the fatass, so it wasn't exactly a reaction used to save a life.  It was more of a "fck this guy, he pissed me off, I'm gonna choke him a bit".

Cop is trained well and paid well, NOT to use a choke hold.  The minute we say it's okay, then we should expect 20,000 cops to deliver 200,000 choke holds tomorrow.   It's against rules, cop broke rules, he shoudlnt be a cop anymore.  

I just care about cops that break rules.   Fire them.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #138 on: December 04, 2014, 07:35:15 AM »
The problem isn't just resisting.   Let's say we give permission for cops to use deadly moves, in face of non-deadly action like "resisting".

So the cops pull you over for running a red light that you skimmed through, or for going 61 in a 55mph.    You're dealing with screaming kids in your car, you're looking for the exit, and to be honest, you just don't see the cop behind you with lights on.  Finally, he has to hit the siren, after 30 seconds of lights only.  He's pissed.  So you know they yell if you break law while pulling over, so you turn on signal and take another30 seconds to find a turn off.  

Cop pulls you out of car and delivers chokehold.  You didnt obey his command.  He doesn't know of your health condition, and you die on ground.  Because this cop determined your continued driving was fleeing, eluding.  Hey, bummer we gave cops ability to use deadly force.

Apply this elsewhere.  You have 20 cops arrive at a nightclub to break up a parking lot fight.  You have 3 cops giving you conflicting orders.  You obey cop #2 and cop #1 decides BOOM, he disobeyed me, he's resisting, time to choke him til his air is gone.

There are lots of time with noise, conflicting orders, traffic, and when the person might be just a little drunk or sick or whatever, where they dont listen fast enough to the cop, but sure don't present a deadly force.  You give cops ability to use deadly force in there, and it might happen to YOU one day.   you're on the porch with 3 glasses of wine in you on a friday night.  Cop driving by decides you look like a suspect for a crime.  If you finish your text message or go to take a piss when he gives a vague order, BOOM, chokehold,bitch.

You CANNOT give them the power to use death move in non-deadly situation.  Or they will use that shit all the time.  Theyll use it to break up high school football bleacher fights.  They'll use it when they want - and one day, it WILL affect someone you love.  Dont give them that power.

resisting can lead to deadly consequences.  It is very much a deadly action
A

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2014, 07:37:08 AM »
Sue the criminals!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/28/heart-attack-law-enforcement-officers-deaths/2586077/

Heart attacks a rising deadly weapon among cops
Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY 12:17 a.m. EDT July 29, 2013
Fatal heart attacks among law enforcement officers have been mounting, many striking victims younger than 50 years old, prompting plans for wellness initiatives.
Police officer on a bicycle


    Concern is growing over the number of heart attacks striking officers under 50
    Medical researchers say police officers have a higher incidence of common risk factors
    By 2016, authorities hope to assess more fully the disease's prevalence in the public safety workforce


Fatal heart attacks among law enforcement officers have been quietly mounting through the first half of this year, and most strike victims younger than 50, according to fatality data compiled by two police groups.

So far this year, nine of the 58 officer deaths have been attributed to heart attacks, drawing new attention away from the most volatile and traditional causes — guns and vehicle accidents.

Overall, officer deaths are down slightly — 2% — this year; firearm deaths are down 14%, and fatal traffic incidents are down 21%, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund and Officer Down, the groups that most closely track police fatalities.

The nine aheart attack victims so far this year, however, represent three more than in all of last year combined, according to the NLEOMF.

From year to year, the causes of line-of-duty deaths can swing indiscriminately, but authorities are expressing serious concern about the string of heart attack deaths so far this year.

"The number does look dramatic,'' said Bart Johnson, executive director of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. "This has been on our radar screen for a while now.''

Johnson said the IACP, the largest association of police chiefs, has been meeting in recent months with representatives of health care company Johnson & Johnson. The meetings, he said, are aimed at developing a more strategic approach to officer wellness as part of the association's Center for Officer Safety and Wellness, which was created last year.

"We're looking at the full spectrum of a police officer's life cycle,'' he said.

The effort comes as medical and occupational health journals have been publishing research on the heightened risk factors associated with law enforcement jobs. Last year, an article in the medical journal Cardiology in Review concluded that the common risk factors — hypertension, obesity, smoking, sedentary lifestyles and sudden physical stress — for officers "often (exceed) that found in the civilian population.''

In March, the National Occupational Research Agenda, part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, listed cardiovascular disease and its relationship to officer disability and death among its top priorities.

By 2016, according to NORA, federal health authorities hope to assess more fully the disease's prevalence in the public safety workforce.

"Americans aren't as fit as they should be, and we, as a profession, are no exception,'' said Arlington County, Va., police Capt. Adrienne Quigley, who has researched the issue. "It's a problem… but it's not the cool thing to talk about.''

Although many law enforcement agencies require officers to meet certain fitness standards prior to employment, Johnson and Quigley said few departments require officers to maintain those standards as conditions of their continuing employment.

"There really is no follow-up,'' Johnson said.

Perhaps the most striking aspect of the recent deaths, authorities said, is that at least five of the nine victims were younger than 50 at the time they died.

The youngest, 26-year-old federal corrections officer Brandon Kountz, died while responding to an alarm inside a Beaumont, Texas, prison.

At least eight of the nine victims were engaged in some physical activity, either training or a police operation, when they were stricken.

Two, including St. Paul, Minn., police Officer Josh Lynbaugh, 30, were pursuing suspects on foot.

The victims' physical conditions prior to death were not included in the fatality data, but at least one — Anthony Barfield — had complained of feeling ill just before his April 9 collapse as he responded to a domestic disturbance call in Barwick, Ga.

Barfield's death at age 47 was especially tragic for the tiny southwest Georgia town where he served as the police chief and the community's only full-time officer.

Barwick City Councilman Dale Hicks described the chief as a "beloved'' figure in the community where "everybody not only knows everybody else's name but we even know the name of your cat.''

"He was probably a little overweight, but he appeared to be in reasonably good shape,'' Hicks said.

He complained of feeling ill when the disturbance call came in, but "it's something you wouldn't generally associate with a heart condition.''

"He was urged to go home,'' Hicks said. "But he said, 'No, I'll stick it out.' "

The councilman said Barfield asked local sheriff's deputies, who responded to the call as back-up officers, to transport the suspect for booking.

He collapsed at the scene soon after.


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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2014, 07:37:50 AM »
resisting can lead to deadly consequences.  It is very much a deadly action

Correct.  And I'm fine with cops using legal/authorized moves to stop people from resisting.  Tase this fat fck til the cows come home.

I don't understand why you woudl allow cops to use BANNED moves on people.   Would you be cool with a cop just clubbing you with a baton in the head 40 times for resisting?  No, of course not.  So you're condoning BANNED moves somewhere in the middle, right?  

Dude, it's a banned move.  Cop broke the NYPD policy.  It's that simple.   Fire his ass.  Im not saying jail time, Im' saying his bitch ass shoudlnt be in a cop car tomorrow with that same power.   Unreal that so much police actions which are dangerous and BANNED are okay with people.  WTF

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2014, 07:38:21 AM »

    Police killings of blacks are down 70% in last 50 years
   
In 2013, blacks committed 5,375 murders

    In 2013, whites committed 4,396 murders

    Whites are 63% of the population, blacks are 13%

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #142 on: December 04, 2014, 07:38:59 AM »
I think the term "chokehold" is being thrown around too loosely.  Nobody was choked.  He was still talking on the ground and nothing was around his neck.  

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #143 on: December 04, 2014, 07:40:52 AM »
Just say what it is... if you're cool with what this cop did, then you are cool with the NYPD using BANNED actions agaisnt people.

NEVER, ever bitch when your local police dept uses a banned technique on YOU.   Whether its a choke, a baton to the skull, or maybe they just pistol whip you on a whim.  You gave them permission to use this particular banned move, you show them it's cool to ignore training and policy.  So STFU when they use ANOTHER banned technique on you.  When the butt of a glock takes out your front teeth because you smirked, hey, STFU, you were okay back in december when cops were using other banned moves.

Once you give them freedom to use ONE banned move, they'll use 2, 3, 4.   DONT give them that freedom to break rules.

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #144 on: December 04, 2014, 07:40:59 AM »
   Police killings of blacks are down 70% in last 50 years
    
In 2013, blacks committed 5,375 murders

    In 2013, whites committed 4,396 murders

    Whites are 63% of the population, blacks are 13%

Less than that.  Black females make up over half that 13 percent and don`t really commit murder.  You also have old blacks that don`t commit murder and baby blacks that don`t commit murder.  So what you are looking at is a ton of murder committed by 1-3 percent.

How about them apples?  :-\

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #145 on: December 04, 2014, 07:42:17 AM »
Just say what it is... if you're cool with what this cop did, then you are cool with the NYPD using BANNED actions agaisnt people.

NEVER, ever bitch when your local police dept uses a banned technique on YOU.   Whether its a choke, a baton to the skull, or maybe they just pistol whip you on a whim.  You gave them permission to use this particular banned move, you show them it's cool to ignore training and policy.  So STFU when they use ANOTHER banned technique on you.  When the butt of a glock takes out your front teeth because you smirked, hey, STFU, you were okay back in december when cops were using other banned moves.

Once you give them freedom to use ONE banned move, they'll use 2, 3, 4.   DONT give them that freedom to break rules.
I would not ban that technique at all.  From the video it would be harmless.  Kids at playgrounds are more aggressive than that. 

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #146 on: December 04, 2014, 07:43:06 AM »
Interesting commentary from Andrew McCarthy, a conservative columnist on National Review and a former federal prosecutor:

"I don’t think race had anything to do with what happened between Eric Garner and the police. I intend to keep an open mind until we learn all the evidence the grand jury relied on. And I continue to believe the NYPD is the best police force there is. But I also know, as good cops know, that there is a difference between resisting arrest by not cooperating, as Garner was doing in Staten Island, and resisting arrest by violent assaults and threats of harm, as Michael Brown did in Ferguson. Police deserve a very wide berth in responding to the latter, but less of one with the former. I thus cannot in good conscience say there was insufficient probable cause to indict Officer Pantaleo for involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide."

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #147 on: December 04, 2014, 07:43:58 AM »
Just say what it is... if you're cool with what this cop did, then you are cool with the NYPD using BANNED actions agaisnt people.

NEVER, ever bitch when your local police dept uses a banned technique on YOU.   Whether its a choke, a baton to the skull, or maybe they just pistol whip you on a whim.  You gave them permission to use this particular banned move, you show them it's cool to ignore training and policy.  So STFU when they use ANOTHER banned technique on you.  When the butt of a glock takes out your front teeth because you smirked, hey, STFU, you were okay back in december when cops were using other banned moves.

Once you give them freedom to use ONE banned move, they'll use 2, 3, 4.   DONT give them that freedom to break rules.
Does this mean cops can use Nuclear weapons if they are allowed a "chokehold"?

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2014, 07:44:42 AM »
Interesting commentary from Andrew McCarthy, a conservative columnist on National Review and a former federal prosecutor:

"I don’t think race had anything to do with what happened between Eric Garner and the police. I intend to keep an open mind until we learn all the evidence the grand jury relied on. And I continue to believe the NYPD is the best police force there is. But I also know, as good cops know, that there is a difference between resisting arrest by not cooperating, as Garner was doing in Staten Island, and resisting arrest by violent assaults and threats of harm, as Michael Brown did in Ferguson. Police deserve a very wide berth in responding to the latter, but less of one with the former. I thus cannot in good conscience say there was insufficient probable cause to indict Officer Pantaleo for involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide."

This is reasonable.
A

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Re: NYPD Chokehold Cop - This should be the real Ferguson outrage
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2014, 08:10:51 AM »
If GB is a microcosm of reality, then it's pretty clear from reading this thread that white people hate-and care less-about unjustified killings of blacks by white cops.

If you have hate in your heart, that's fine.  So, pick the hill you guys want to die on, and live with your decision.