Volume discussion

[oldtimer1]

I've been a HIT guy forever. One or two sets per exercise after warm up to failure. I keep trying volume but I keep leaving it. It feels like I'm wasting my time doing set after non failure set of an exercise. Personally it fits my personality and make up to hit one set hard. Take it to the ragged edge then move on.

Talking to a volume guy he said he does 4 sets to failure of an exercise. If he was planning to do  4 sets of 10 reps to failure it can't be done.  If you truly hit the first set to 10 reps to failure there is no way to return and get ten reps again. It might look something like this 10 reps-8reps-6 reps-4 reps. So I think it's a delusional statement. His reps probably go like this. First set is 10 reps with plenty of gas in the tank. Second is 10 still could get more. Third got 10 and could have got 12 and the last set is failure to 10.

Has there been a volume guy who went to HIT and had success?  I would also like to hear from the opposite. A Hit who went to volume.  Any thoughts?

[njflex]

I've been a HIT guy forever. One or two sets per exercise after warm up to failure. I keep trying volume but I keep leaving it. It feels like I'm wasting my time doing set after non failure set of an exercise. Personally it fits my personality and make up to hit one set hard. Take it to the ragged edge then move on.

Talking to a volume guy he said he does 4 sets to failure of an exercise. If he was planning to do  4 sets of 10 reps to failure it can't be done.  If you truly hit the first set to 10 reps to failure there is no way to return and get ten reps again. It might look something like this 10 reps-8reps-6 reps-4 reps. So I think it's a delusional statement. His reps probably go like this. First set is 10 reps with plenty of gas in the tank. Second is 10 still could get more. Third got 10 and could have got 12 and the last set is failure to 10.

Has there been a volume guy who went to HIT and had success?  I would also like to hear from the opposite. A Hit who went to volume.  Any thoughts?

is this based on weight poundages /load increased each set as well..

[T-REX007]

Never seemed to get enough "stimulation" with the HIT type stuff- maybe didn't give it enough time, not sure

It seems like if you want to get good at something you should do a lot of it to get the most benefit long term - within reason and parameters for sure

Been my experience anyways, but certainly not an expert

[pestosterone]

If u fail in the first set then u have to lighten the load to complete another set to failure with the same number reps. I find it best to leave a little gas in the tank first couple sets and still go all out to n the last set to failure

[njflex]

If u fail in the first set then u have to lighten the load to complete another set to failure with the same number reps. I find it best to leave a little gas in the tank first couple sets and still go all out to n the last set to failure

THATS where i'm usually at'pyramid wise..but there are days I increase lbs/load and still get 10 reps straight,i rarely go below 6 reps

[pestosterone]

Yes low reps are ok every now and then I've always felt that if u train low reps all the time u r gonna end up with ruined joints. Don't get me wrong training heavy training for body building  I do believe is necessary especially when first starting out and younger to develope basics strength and for a change every once in a while but if u have been training a decade or so most people can handle a lot of weights that the shoulders knees and hips ect will b worn down by over a period of time. sure u can squat 6 plates a side for 5 sets of 5 but u can also squat 315 for sets of 20 and b a swole up ass old man in the future still squatting and feel/look good.

[Yev33]

    I have gone from volume to HIT  and back to volume. Going from volume to HIT was relatively easy. First month or so you are still learning how to truly go all out on that one work set, so you really can't beat yourself up too much during this time. Add to that lower volume and less workouts per week, and you can easily see how I was seeing progress at first. Then once I got into the swing of it and really learned how to grind out reps, that's when I began to stall.

Going from HIT to volume was a bit harder. I had learn once again how to pace my sets. I was taking all of my sets way too far for volume training and could not recover. I had to re-gain that "level headed" approach which is needed for volume training but is terrible for HIT.

You are absolutely right about it being impossible to do 4 sets of 10 reps to failure. You would have to use a descending pyramid and get your weight adjustments from set to set absolutely perfect to fail exactly at 10 reps on all four sets. BUT... even if you can manage this (which is highly unlikely) you still have to get over the mental hurdle of going absolutely balls out for four sets of the same exercise. Just about anyone will hold back some without even realizing it.

Personally what I have found is that as long as the training weights are moving up, whether it's one all out set of 10-15 reps or 5 sets of 10  with the same weight then progress will be made. For me I gain strength quicker and with less plateaus with volume.

[Donny]

   I have gone from volume to HIT  and back to volume. Going from volume to HIT was relatively easy. First month or so you are still learning how to truly go all out on that one work set, so you really can't beat yourself up too much during this time. Add to that lower volume and less workouts per week, and you can easily see how I was seeing progress at first. Then once I got into the swing of it and really learned how to grind out reps, that's when I began to stall.

Going from HIT to volume was a bit harder. I had learn once again how to pace my sets. I was taking all of my sets way too far for volume training and could not recover. I had to re-gain that "level headed" approach which is needed for volume training but is terrible for HIT.

You are absolutely right about it being impossible to do 4 sets of 10 reps to failure. You would have to use a descending pyramid and get your weight adjustments from set to set absolutely perfect to fail exactly at 10 reps on all four sets. BUT... even if you can manage this (which is highly unlikely) you still have to get over the mental hurdle of going absolutely balls out for four sets of the same exercise. Just about anyone will hold back some without even realizing it.

Personally what I have found is that as long as the training weights are moving up, whether it's one all out set of 10-15 reps or 5 sets of 10  with the same weight then progress will be made. For me I gain strength quicker and with less plateaus with volume.

Good post, i like reading you and Ritchīs (Oldtimer) posts.

THATS where i'm usually at'pyramid wise..but there are days I increase lbs/load and still get 10 reps straight,i rarely go below 6 reps

basically what i do too. If i drop a couple of reps on the last set i donīt mind as long as i donīt go under 5/6 reps.

[njflex]

some smart/good trainers and programs here.it can get very technical to some and at times even myself I find trying to correlate how strength increase works with possibly a size increase or getting more out of the workout to exhaust the muscle.

[pestosterone]

   I have gone from volume to HIT  and back to volume. Going from volume to HIT was relatively easy. First month or so you are still learning how to truly go all out on that one work set, so you really can't beat yourself up too much during this time. Add to that lower volume and less workouts per week, and you can easily see how I was seeing progress at first. Then once I got into the swing of it and really learned how to grind out reps, that's when I began to stall.

Going from HIT to volume was a bit harder. I had learn once again how to pace my sets. I was taking all of my sets way too far for volume training and could not recover. I had to re-gain that "level headed" approach which is needed for volume training but is terrible for HIT.

You are absolutely right about it being impossible to do 4 sets of 10 reps to failure. You would have to use a descending pyramid and get your weight adjustments from set to set absolutely perfect to fail exactly at 10 reps on all four sets. BUT... even if you can manage this (which is highly unlikely) you still have to get over the mental hurdle of going absolutely balls out for four sets of the same exercise. Just about anyone will hold back some without even realizing it.

Personally what I have found is that as long as the training weights are moving up, whether it's one all out set of 10-15 reps or 5 sets of 10  with the same weight then progress will be made. For me I gain strength quicker and with less plateaus with volume.

yes definitely on the last part there... i will add more weight over a period to a compound lift if doing lots of sets and reps and try to still get the number get stronger on higher reps lower weight and it usually transitions nice to when u go back to heavier weights u get a relief of not doing so much volume which to me is twice as hard mentally than giving it your all on one set. Always move up in reps or weights or add a set never stand still progress be dominant be aggressive and hungry.

[chaos]

I do pyramids were I work up to singles/doubles/triples depending on how I feel, usually 3 sets of low reps, then drop back down in weight and increase reps. Only on the big 4. All other movements I do sets of 8-10

[ritch]

I've been a HIT guy forever. One or two sets per exercise after warm up to failure. I keep trying volume but I keep leaving it. It feels like I'm wasting my time doing set after non failure set of an exercise. Personally it fits my personality and make up to hit one set hard. Take it to the ragged edge then move on.

Talking to a volume guy he said he does 4 sets to failure of an exercise. If he was planning to do  4 sets of 10 reps to failure it can't be done.  If you truly hit the first set to 10 reps to failure there is no way to return and get ten reps again. It might look something like this 10 reps-8reps-6 reps-4 reps. So I think it's a delusional statement. His reps probably go like this. First set is 10 reps with plenty of gas in the tank. Second is 10 still could get more. Third got 10 and could have got 12 and the last set is failure to 10.

Has there been a volume guy who went to HIT and had success?  I would also like to hear from the opposite. A Hit who went to volume.  Any thoughts?

Felt like something I've posted before, very similar in our thinking... I've tried doing more sets where I back off intensity to give more volume but I lose size and after say 6 weeks, I go back. I'm officially done with volume. Per body part, 6 sets is plenty but still takes 30ish mins to do from warm ups and long rest periods to go as heavy as possible. And heavy does not mean pushing the biggest poundages... controlled tempo's, strategic pauses, negatives and such to work and stimulate the muscle. Plenty of clowns that push 100-120lbs dumbells yet hardly look like they lift.

I spent a good period using lots of machines doing faster tempo training to stimulate the muscle less to get through all the sets and again, lost size.

Anyway, enough rambling here, just saying I like HIT and don't even tell me it's "missing the letter S" to spell shit, lol..+

[oldtimer1]

   I have gone from volume to HIT  and back to volume. Going from volume to HIT was relatively easy. First month or so you are still learning how to truly go all out on that one work set, so you really can't beat yourself up too much during this time. Add to that lower volume and less workouts per week, and you can easily see how I was seeing progress at first. Then once I got into the swing of it and really learned how to grind out reps, that's when I began to stall.

Going from HIT to volume was a bit harder. I had learn once again how to pace my sets. I was taking all of my sets way too far for volume training and could not recover. I had to re-gain that "level headed" approach which is needed for volume training but is terrible for HIT.

You are absolutely right about it being impossible to do 4 sets of 10 reps to failure. You would have to use a descending pyramid and get your weight adjustments from set to set absolutely perfect to fail exactly at 10 reps on all four sets. BUT... even if you can manage this (which is highly unlikely) you still have to get over the mental hurdle of going absolutely balls out for four sets of the same exercise. Just about anyone will hold back some without even realizing it.

Personally what I have found is that as long as the training weights are moving up, whether it's one all out set of 10-15 reps or 5 sets of 10  with the same weight then progress will be made. For me I gain strength quicker and with less plateaus with volume.

Great posts by everyone but I got a lot out of your post. I think the biggest obstacle when I use volume is that I have that HIT mentality of going to the ragged edge.  What I mean by this to use running as an example if you're going to run five miles you don't run the first half mile at your absolute hardest effort or you won't be able to run five miles. When I do volume I find after awhile I'm working so hard I can't complete the workout because one I never developed the muscular endurance and second I'm using too much weight.

[Yev33]

Good post, i like reading you and Ritchīs (Oldtimer) posts. basically what i do too. If i drop a couple of reps on the last set i donīt mind as long as i donīt go under 5/6 reps.

Thank you Donny

Great posts by everyone but I got a lot out of your post. I think the biggest obstacle when I use volume is that I have that HIT mentality of going to the ragged edge.  What I mean by this to use running as an example if you're going to run five miles you don't run the first half mile at your absolute hardest effort or you won't be able to run five miles. When I do volume I find after awhile I'm working so hard I can't complete the workout because one I never developed the muscular endurance and second I'm using too much weight.

I have learned two important lessons from HIT:
Importance of progressive overload
Benefit of lower overall volume

When it comes to lowering overall volume I can either decrease the number of sets, or decrease the number of exercises. I have found that the latter is much more effective.

I also learned that using the same weight for all of the work sets of an exercise helped me understand volume better. But I couldn't do something like 4x8 or 3x10. I would get overzealous and pick a weight that would barely let me get the required number of reps on the first set and the following sets I would try to kill myself trying to match the first one. That's when I started using rep ranges. For hypertrophy I like 4x6-8 and 3x9-12. There is a noticeable difference in the weights that I can handle between the two even though the total number of reps are similar. This forces me to pick a weight that is light enough to fall into the rep range and I increase the weight when I can complete all of the reps (4x8 or 3x12). Also the rep ranges are narrow enough where I cannot go to failure on more than one set ( I try to leave 1-3 reps in the tank but every once in a while I tend to push it) and still be able to stay in the rep range.

I am similar to you with wanting to push it too far every workout. It took me a while to come up with a set of rules to help regulate my effort. I can probably write a small book on my experiments with volume and all of the trial and error I went through.  

[oldtimer1]

Thank you Donny

I have learned two important lessons from HIT:
Importance of progressive overload
Benefit of lower overall volume

When it comes to lowering overall volume I can either decrease the number of sets, or decrease the number of exercises. I have found that the latter is much more effective.

I also learned that using the same weight for all of the work sets of an exercise helped me understand volume better. But I couldn't do something like 4x8 or 3x10. I would get overzealous and pick a weight that would barely let me get the required number of reps on the first set and the following sets I would try to kill myself trying to match the first one. That's when I started using rep ranges. For hypertrophy I like 4x6-8 and 3x9-12. There is a noticeable difference in the weights that I can handle between the two even though the total number of reps are similar. This forces me to pick a weight that is light enough to fall into the rep range and I increase the weight when I can complete all of the reps (4x8 or 3x12). Also the rep ranges are narrow enough where I cannot go to failure on more than one set ( I try to leave 1-3 reps in the tank but every once in a while I tend to push it) and still be able to stay in the rep range.

I am similar to you with wanting to push it too far every workout. It took me a while to come up with a set of rules to help regulate my effort. I can probably write a small book on my experiments with volume and all of the trial and error I went through.  

A little confused on your explanation. When you say rep ranges of 4 sets of 8 reps and 3 sets of 12 are you referring to different lifting cycles or the same workout? If the same workout is it something like this for chest?

Flat bench 4 x 8
Incline bench 4 x 8
Flat flies 3 x 12

[Yev33]

A little confused on your explanation. When you say rep ranges of 4 sets of 8 reps and 3 sets of 12 are you referring to different lifting cycles or the same workout? If the same workout is it something like this for chest?

Flat bench 4 x 8
Incline bench 4 x 8
Flat flies 3 x 12

Yep, just like that.