Ferguson Grand Juror Sues to Speak Out Against Prosecution

[Dos Equis]

The basis of the lawsuit is that the prosecution HAS been speaking to the media and misrepresenting what was presented to and concluded by the jury.

I understand the basis of the lawsuit, but you cannot logically separate the basis for making the proceedings secret in the first place from the fact the proceedings are over, even if the transcripts are released to the public.  For example, part of the reason the proceedings are secret is to encourage witnesses to come forward and give full, frank testimony, that whole environment can be destroyed if you allow grand jurors to start talking about the proceedings, witnesses, etc. after the proceedings are concluded.  I think that same pressure applies to the grand jurors themselves, who might be targets of protests, violence, etc. based on their votes.

[Al Doggity]

I understand the basis of the lawsuit, but you cannot logically separate the basis for making the proceedings secret in the first place from the fact the proceedings are over, even if the transcripts are released to the public.

Yes, you can since the basis for that secrecy is how a public grand jury might affect a subsequent trial.

[Skip8282]

Yes, you can since the basis for that secrecy is how a public grand jury might affect a subsequent trial.

Indeed, and they selectively admonish juries all the time.

[Dos Equis]

Yes, you can since the basis for that secrecy is how a public grand jury might affect a subsequent trial.

No you can't, because it can deter witnesses in future proceedings from testifying and make it more difficult for grand jurors to serve and/or vote without feeling intimidated. 

What is a "public grand jury"? 

[Al Doggity]

No you can't, because it can deter witnesses in future proceedings from testifying and make it more difficult for grand jurors to serve and/or vote without feeling intimidated.

What is a "public grand jury"?  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/05/ferguson-michael-brown-grand-juror-sues-gag-order/21284797/


"The Supreme Court has said that grand jury secrecy must be weighed against the juror's First Amendment rights on a case-by-case basis," Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU of Missouri, said in a statement. "The rules of secrecy must yield because this is a highly unusual circumstance. The First Amendment prevents the state from imposing a lifetime gag order in cases where the prosecuting attorney has purported to be transparent."

James Cohen, an associate professor at Fordham University School of Law, said the Missouri statute was designed to reflect the typical circumstance, where grand jury proceedings are held secretly. But in this case, the prosecutor's office spoke extensively about the process and published transcripts and other evidence presented to the panel.

[Dos Equis]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/05/ferguson-michael-brown-grand-juror-sues-gag-order/21284797/


"The Supreme Court has said that grand jury secrecy must be weighed against the juror's First Amendment rights on a case-by-case basis," Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU of Missouri, said in a statement. "The rules of secrecy must yield because this is a highly unusual circumstance. The First Amendment prevents the state from imposing a lifetime gag order in cases where the prosecuting attorney has purported to be transparent."

James Cohen, an associate professor at Fordham University School of Law, said the Missouri statute was designed to reflect the typical circumstance, where grand jury proceedings are held secretly. But in this case, the prosecutor's office spoke extensively about the process and published transcripts and other evidence presented to the panel.

Ok.  And?  What is a "public grand jury"? 

[Al Doggity]

Ok.  And?  What is a "public grand jury"?  

LOL ok It's pretty obvious. A grand jury if it were open to the public instead secret. It may not be a legal term (it wasn't supposed to be taken as such) but the concept is pretty obvious.

[Soul Crusher]

And what good would a trial have done?  The prosecution has to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Wilson INTENTIONALLY tried to murder Brown.

That fat retard and animal just robbed a store and attacked a cop - and was going back for a second shot at him and you think a case like that has any chance in hell of being successful?

Then what?  The same worthless scum protesting no indictment would be burning down stores and looting and acting a fool due to no conviction. 

[blacken700]

let me guess this juror is black 

the gentle giant was just misunderstood 

[youandme]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/05/ferguson-michael-brown-grand-juror-sues-gag-order/21284797/


"The Supreme Court has said that grand jury secrecy must be weighed against the juror's First Amendment rights on a case-by-case basis," Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU of Missouri, said in a statement. "The rules of secrecy must yield because this is a highly unusual circumstance. The First Amendment prevents the state from imposing a lifetime gag order in cases where the prosecuting attorney has purported to be transparent."

James Cohen, an associate professor at Fordham University School of Law, said the Missouri statute was designed to reflect the typical circumstance, where grand jury proceedings are held secretly. But in this case, the prosecutor's office spoke extensively about the process and published transcripts and other evidence presented to the panel.

There is a difference between a gag order and someone filing a law suit alleging that the evidence was one sided, delving into the minds of the jurors , etc.
Gag orders are likely to be lifted based on the facts of the case and the surrounding circumstances. I'm not sure why this professor is talking about first amendment rights this is not at issue what it is at issue is the fact this juror is complaining of prejudice, and a wrong verdict.

Also, the policy against letting jurors speak out on some matters is enrichment. The justice system having jurors served is not meant to enrich a juror by enrich out law system.

[dario73]

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/grand-juror-sues-mcculloch-says-he-mischaracterized-wilson-case

Prosecution earlier admitted that they were aware at least one witness for Darren Wilson was obviously lying, but let her testify anyway.

What about the idiots who lied about the thug having his hands up and never assaulting the officer?

[240 is Back]

What about the idiots who lied about the thug having his hands up and never assaulting the officer?

also the idiot that lied and said he chased the attacked 30 feet, when it was really 150 feet.

Kind of moves it from self-defense at the car, to self-defense in a second confrontation.   Connecting the two just doesn't work. 

[Archer77]

also the idiot that lied and said he chased the attacked 30 feet, when it was really 150 feet.

Kind of moves it from self-defense at the car, to self-defense in a second confrontation.   Connecting the two just doesn't work. 

It does if you consider the testimony that Brown fled and then turned back around and came toward Wilson.  The prosecution grilled all the witnesses they found gave conflicting testimony even those who supported Wilson's case.  This is what happens when you have wildly conflicting witness testimony that is not supported by forensic evidence. 

[Soul Crusher]

let me guess this juror is black 

the gentle giant was just misunderstood 

BUMP

[240 is Back]

It does if you consider the testimony that Brown fled and then turned back around and came toward Wilson.  The prosecution grilled all the witnesses they found gave conflicting testimony even those who supported Wilson's case.  This is what happens when you have wildly conflicting witness testimony that is not supported by forensic evidence. 

You're talking about something completely different than what I am.

You're talking about the circumstances of the 2nd shooting, which I agree with completely.

HOWEVER the cop tried to connect the 2 incidents.   "I was so scared from getting beaten by godzilla in car, and there he was, 30 feet away when I got out".

No, no no.   Your ass took a whooping.  You got out and saw the dude limping away.  You didn't hop on the radio.  You took your loopy ass on a foot chase that went half a football field.  Then you entered into a SECOND confrontation.   And while that shoot might have been a legal one, I've said that from day one - you cannot use how scared you were in the car, as part of why you used deadly force 90 seconds later. 

Cause anyone THAT fcking scared will call it in, not take on a 1-man solo show in crowded streets, head ringing from ass whooping and shaking terrified from being scared like a 5 year old.   

Stop mixing the 2 up.  Separate incidents.   We know why

[Dos Equis]

LOL ok It's pretty obvious. A grand jury if it were open to the public instead secret. It may not be a legal term (it wasn't supposed to be taken as such) but the concept is pretty obvious.

Oh I see.  This is another instance where only you obviously know what you're talking about. 

So, in other words, there is no such thing as a "public grand jury." 

[Dos Equis]

HOWEVER the cop tried to connect the 2 incidents.   "I was so scared from getting beaten by godzilla in car, and there he was, 30 feet away when I got out".

I ran this alleged quote by Officer Wilson through Google and couldn't find a source.  Do you have a link or is this another instance of you just making stuff up?

[blacken700]

also the idiot that lied and said he chased the attacked 30 feet, when it was really 150 feet.

Kind of moves it from self-defense at the car, to self-defense in a second confrontation.   Connecting the two just doesn't work. 

30 doesn't mean shit,he was coming at the cop got what he deserved, even if the cop ran a mile,shit for brains

[blacken700]

You're talking about something completely different than what I am.

You're talking about the circumstances of the 2nd shooting, which I agree with completely.

HOWEVER the cop tried to connect the 2 incidents.   "I was so scared from getting beaten by godzilla in car, and there he was, 30 feet away when I got out".

No, no no.   Your ass took a whooping.  You got out and saw the dude limping away.  You didn't hop on the radio.  You took your loopy ass on a foot chase that went half a football field.  Then you entered into a SECOND confrontation.   And while that shoot might have been a legal one, I've said that from day one - you cannot use how scared you were in the car, as part of why you used deadly force 90 seconds later. 

Cause anyone THAT fcking scared will call it in, not take on a 1-man solo show in crowded streets, head ringing from ass whooping and shaking terrified from being scared like a 5 year old.   

Stop mixing the 2 up.  Separate incidents.   We know why

he didn't have to tie the two together it was all the same crime scene, 30 or 150 feet apart

[240 is Back]

he didn't have to tie the two together it was all the same crime scene, 30 or 150 feet apart

what is the cutoff?  151 feet?   5,280 feet?

At some point, he can't use being scared for his life at the car anymore.  I'd say, after 150 feet of chasing, you're kinda out of self-defense mode lol

[Soul Crusher]

let me guess this juror is black 

the gentle giant was just misunderstood 

BUMP

[Dos Equis]

Gentle giant right there. 

[Soul Crusher]

Gentle giant right there. 

This is who these idiots are making themselves look like asses over. 

[Dos Equis]

This is who these idiots are making themselves look like asses over. 

Sad.  Pathetic.  They missed a golden opportunity to highlight how poor life choices can have tragic consequences. 

[Soul Crusher]

Sad.  Pathetic.  They missed a golden opportunity to highlight how poor life choices can have tragic consequences. 

That is not even remotely on their radar.  To these stupid morons - Brown is a victim.   In reality - a thug and pos like Brown - had he lived - would have been nothing but a lifelong career criminal, a tax sponge, and a waste of time and effort.  No loss whatsoever. 

What these fools like Option Fail can't get past is that this thug shared a similar skin pigmentation as they do.  They are the true racists since they can't get beyond skin color and asses a situation for what it is.  You rob a store, man handle a clerk, attack a cop, etc - sorry - that is not how a civilized person acts.   I know in their warped existence whites or others should just accept their violent outbursts and bs - but in reality you get jacked for that.  So welcome to reality morons - civilize yourselves or get put down accordingly.  Just how it is.