Author Topic: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.  (Read 43428 times)

pellius

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Re: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.
« Reply #175 on: April 07, 2015, 02:04:45 AM »
Since this thread was moved to the training board I noticed after perusing other threads that a fella name Ryan Ergo has started posting here. He is a very advance bber and very knowledgeable about training and hormones. I think you would enjoy discussing training with him as he is very well read, has the knowledge and vocabulary, has been training for decades, has competed, and even at breaking the half century mark is practically stage ready within 4-6 weeks.

He's a serious and passionate person when it comes to advance bbing so you won't have to worry about any balonie or ridicule. I don't think I've ever even been on the training board but will definitely start going there just so I can read Ergo's posts. I've know him from other boards and was always impressed with him. He disappeared for about three years from the boards but is back now. I'm actually surprised that he chose GetBig for his return as he is so well know and respected on other boards and is well aware of GB's reputation for brutality and nonsense. Maybe it's because despite what others say about this "dying board" seeing it's better days it still gets the largest audience with the exception of bb.com.

I would be interested in your comments regarding this post. It's similar to what you were taking about vis-a-vis TUT. He believes, like you, like Jones, like myself, and unlike Coach, the inherent limitations of free weights and there's nothing special about muscle contracting pressing a barbell or pressing a hammer incline other than with a barbell you need more skill as more is involved with balancing and controlling a barbell which is a skill and has nothing to do with pure muscle contraction and stimulation.



That body in the pic above was developed in this manner. I made more gains in 2 years then ever before and this is at a time where I trained just as you do currently and was resolved to the fact that free weights was "the way" watch some of my video's particularly some of my earlier ones YouTube ryan ergo for my channel. There is more to it but in a nutshell this is it. That body was trained in this fashion...

Muscle does not know what exercise you are doing. Muscle does not know if you're using a barbell, cable, cement block etc. Muscle can and will only respond to stress that is created and directed toward stimulating the muscle into responding. With the goal being hypertrophy. Bodybuilders accomplish this stress through a series of repetitions that are performed during a set. Muscle does not know about repetitions. The standard repetition is a stutter approach to creating stress on the muscle. A stutter approach is not the best approach. A more prolonged type of TUT (time under tension) is preferred to damage the muscle. If you watch the average trainer perform their set the stuttered TUT will be for that set (8-12 reps) would average a stuttered 12-20 seconds total. This is why the average trainer must do 12-20 sets to have any effect on positive results. This is a very haphazard way to train and will only delay your growth.You must find a machine that will deliver a constant tension throughout your set during both the positive and negative phases. You must train as heavily as possible while still allowing yourself to maintain a constant TUT for a minimum of 45 seconds to 2 minutes per set. Slow the reps down. Muscle does not know reps. Muscle only knows that you are delivering a new kind of constant stress that it cannot get a reprieve from as it does with a stuttered approach. It must, must activate deeper muscle fibers to compensate for this new approach. Often as little as 4-6 reps can destroy the muscle from the TUT it takes to complete the 4-6 reps. If you can go beyond 4-6 reps, do so. The lactic acid and pump will be incredibly painful. You must endure the pain and keep going to complete muscle failure. Your pain threshold will improve and so will your strength and so thus will the gains in new muscle size. Seek out the best machines at your gym for this method. These machines must give you a constant stress throughout the positive phase at a minimum. Most well designed machines can at least do this. If you can find a machine that delivers a constant stress for the negative also, do so. In other words it drives you back into the tension mode upon reversing the movement. This is an optimal machine.


njflex

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Re: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.
« Reply #176 on: April 07, 2015, 06:25:51 AM »
Since this thread was moved to the training board I noticed after perusing other threads that a fella name Ryan Ergo has started posting here. He is a very advance bber and very knowledgeable about training and hormones. I think you would enjoy discussing training with him as he is very well read, has the knowledge and vocabulary, has been training for decades, has competed, and even at breaking the half century mark is practically stage ready within 4-6 weeks.

He's a serious and passionate person when it comes to advance bbing so you won't have to worry about any balonie or ridicule. I don't think I've ever even been on the training board but will definitely start going there just so I can read Ergo's posts. I've know him from other boards and was always impressed with him. He disappeared for about three years from the boards but is back now. I'm actually surprised that he chose GetBig for his return as he is so well know and respected on other boards and is well aware of GB's reputation for brutality and nonsense. Maybe it's because despite what others say about this "dying board" seeing it's better days it still gets the largest audience with the exception of bb.com.

I would be interested in your comments regarding this post. It's similar to what you were taking about vis-a-vis TUT. He believes, like you, like Jones, like myself, and unlike Coach, the inherent limitations of free weights and there's nothing special about muscle contracting pressing a barbell or pressing a hammer incline other than with a barbell you need more skill as more is involved with balancing and controlling a barbell which is a skill and has nothing to do with pure muscle contraction and stimulation.


SOME good points here on training,the old adage free weights vs machine,,they all work well in some balance in your training protocol.i love cable work and hammer or stacked versions of machine ,the fixed plane of execution from start to mid to finish on a rep gives the working  muscle intended stimulation the full benefit over using say only free weights..

pellius

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Re: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.
« Reply #177 on: April 07, 2015, 05:42:38 PM »
SOME good points here on training,the old adage free weights vs machine,,they all work well in some balance in your training protocol.i love cable work and hammer or stacked versions of machine ,the fixed plane of execution from start to mid to finish on a rep gives the working  muscle intended stimulation the full benefit over using say only free weights..

Because free weights only provide direct resistance going up and down it is very effective on exercises in the plane of movement such as military press, bench press, squat.... When it's a rotary type like say curls or flies, not so much. Also you don't get the full range of motion with free weights that you can get with a well design, Basile approve, machine. Your pecs bring your upper arm across your torse. With the bench press you're getting maybe 50 degrees of that angle. The Nautilus flies takes you through the full range of motion.

The more interesting question is if full range is necessary. I mean, more people built tremendous pecs using benching movements than with machine flies.

 

Vince B

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Re: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.
« Reply #178 on: April 07, 2015, 11:44:02 PM »
Is full range necessary? Nope. One of the issues Nautilus stressed to promote their machines. Put the muscle under severe mechanical tension for a minute or so and you will grow. All protocols can be reduced to this requirement.

Training becomes a means to effectively and safely generate sufficient mechanical tension for the required length of time. When you know this fact it gives you endless ways to train. You can also assess whether protocols are going to result

in hypertrophy. My method is simply to go by the level of DOMS generated from that workout. No DOMS then no or little growth. That is the sad fact. Instead of asking for specific exercises and protocols you focus on getting to the point

where the symptoms of a hypertrophy stimulus is present. Shaking muscles, sweating, a maximum pump and feeling worn out. The effective protocol is to warmup with high reps then use a moderately heavy weight over and over and over.

Supersetting from triceps to biceps or chest to back works well. There are plenty of combinations. You always aim for the maximum pump. Use the same resistance over and over for at least 6 sets. If you are not sore the next couple of days

you have to rethink what you did and change something, preferably the exercise. Once you get an effective exercise it will usually keep working for you to grow muscle.

Vince B

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Re: I discovered something re hypertrophy yesterday and today.
« Reply #179 on: April 07, 2015, 11:51:58 PM »
I have personally experienced rapid hypertrophy in my arms using 3 totally different protocols.

1. Isometric training where one holds a loaded barbell against pins for 3 X 10 seconds. M W F. M mid position, W low and F high. Use weight that you fail at 10 seconds.

2. Concentric only machine.  20 sets of biceps curls for maximum that allowed 5 reps. Alternating standing triceps extensions 20 sets X 5 reps.

3. Conventional training. Warm up pyramid. 50 reps adding resistance etc., until can do only 20 reps. Then stay at that weight and do 5 more sets. Biceps alternating with lying triceps extensions.

I have no doubt that eccentric only exercise with also trigger hypertrophy. There may be other protocols as well.