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Author Topic: was royce gracie overrated?  (Read 11477 times)
Scimowser
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« on: February 25, 2006, 06:58:48 AM »

i was looking at his record and the thing i noticed was the lack of quality MMA opposition he fought against. He mainly had dojo fighters looking to earn some money, although he did beat Ken Shamrock. That said, he was soundly beaten by him IMO in the rematch, but there were no judges so it was announced a draw (reminds me of the second Marco Ruas Vs Oleg Taktarov fight)
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 08:21:12 AM »

I watched the old ultimate fights when gracie was in them... I think the first time he beat Shamrock he couldn't come back out for the next fight (so really he forfeited). I think he was totally beatable... but then again I hear Benny Urquidez lost to him fair and square... and Benny "the Jet" is probably still tougher than me
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 09:22:43 AM »

Overrated no he was great back in the day but the sport has evolved and he is no longer the top dog but overrated no imo
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Scimowser
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 09:34:30 AM »

I watched the old ultimate fights when gracie was in them... I think the first time he beat Shamrock he couldn't come back out for the next fight (so really he forfeited). I think he was totally beatable... but then again I hear Benny Urquidez lost to him fair and square... and Benny "the Jet" is probably still tougher than me

he beat Ken in the inaugural UFC and went onto win it. He got injured against Kimo in UFC 3 and couldnt carry on, which prompted Ken to fake injury as he only wanted to fight Royce. Ive never heard about him fighting Benny though, he was undefeated world kickboxing champion but not too skilled on the ground. Where and when was this?
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 09:45:17 AM »

ive never been a big fan of gracies, but back in the day they brought something new to the table, but it didnt last that long
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2006, 09:51:01 AM »

yeah, i think that the gracie mystique died when the crap ones kept getting beat down
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2006, 11:14:13 AM »

I don't think Benny ever fought Royce.  I do know in Denver or somewhereBenny was fighting or showed up to watch a fight and the Gracies were there with some others trying to get Benny to fight in the parking lot or something like that.  Benny was to old.  I know them both and I remember when this happened just not the exact details.  But it was something like that. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2006, 11:25:15 AM »

which prompted Ken to fake injury as he only wanted to fight Royce.

is that fact?

E
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2006, 03:50:31 PM »

is that fact?
E
Ken admits to it in his autobiography.  Said his dad was pissed at him.  As far as Gracie being overrated, we'll find out in a few months if he's evolved as a fighter or not.  If he's going no gi against Matt Hughes, he'd better be more than A BJJ player...
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2006, 06:08:12 AM »

Ken admits to it in his autobiography.  Said his dad was pissed at him.  As far as Gracie being overrated, we'll find out in a few months if he's evolved as a fighter or not.  If he's going no gi against Matt Hughes, he'd better be more than A BJJ player...
True to that but I think Joyce has a 40% chance of beating him
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2006, 06:19:04 AM »

royces family member,rorion gracie,who invented the ufc was a marketing genius,he created the ufc to show the gjj/bjj was better in one on one self defense situations.ofcourse he would never stay on top for the simple fact that everyone started learning jj and it made it very hard to catch his opponants in submissions,theres no denying that to win in mma today you still have to know the ground game cause even the best sprawler in the game chuck lidell gets takendown once in awhile
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2006, 12:54:13 PM »

royces family member,rorion gracie,who invented the ufc was a marketing genius,he created the ufc to show the gjj/bjj was better in one on one self defense situations.

The really funny thing...do you know why Royce was picked to compete?  Because he's the least imposing looking one of the Gracies (unless they pulled Helio Grin).  Figured that really get the message through to people about how superior BJJ was...
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2006, 01:31:20 PM »

Yes that was exactly why they chose Royce.  I used to train with them all at Rorian's house.  Royce as you can see from the pic is just a skinny loooking kid.  Didn't even shave then I think.  Rickson was just to imposing of a figure.  There whole mindset was to show that size didn't matter.  The GJJ could beat anyone of any size that knew anything about fighting.  They spent allot of time doing exhibitions andtaking on all comers.  Like I said before I got them there first major exposure in the US when Pat Jordan (the guy who wrote the article on something I did in TimeMagazine) I called to tell him about some guys I know who can kick anyones ass.  I remember the call.  I kept telling him these guys are unreal.  They have never lost a fight.  They aren't big but they beat guys bigger than them.  He flew in and the article ended up as a feature in Playboy magazine (something like 10 pages). 

Has anyone seen the tape when Rorian, Rickson and Royce went to Compton to challenge all comers.  There was a local black Karate instructor came.  He brought his whole dojo.  And he was a big mouth.  He got submitted in about a minute.  He gets up wants to do it again.  Again he gets submitted.  He does again and the same thing.  It was funny.
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2006, 02:52:10 PM »

Has anyone seen the tape when Rorian, Rickson and Royce went to Compton to challenge all comers.  There was a local black Karate instructor came.  He brought his whole dojo.  And he was a big mouth.  He got submitted in about a minute.  He gets up wants to do it again.  Again he gets submitted.  He does again and the same thing.  It was funny.
haven't seen it, but that's funny as hell; whether you like BJJ or not, you can't deny that the Gracies changed martial arts forever.
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2006, 01:08:56 PM »

patrick smith said it best in his interveiw after one of his fights he won back in ufc 3 i believe,he said(if you cant fight on the ground,you cant fight)
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2006, 12:33:52 AM »

Oneofthe reasons (main one) why Chuck Norris invites the entire Gracie family to his annual convention is he went down to Brazil to meet Helio.  He sparred with Helio and had Chuck tapping in less than a minute. Chuck honestly told me he could not move.  When he tried to get out of the hold it hurt him more.
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2006, 02:55:22 AM »

I don't think he was over rated at all.In the first few ufc's nobody expected him...He shocked everyone. After that everyone started to learn the gaurd because they knew that most fights end up on the ground and if they got there with him they were done.
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2006, 09:15:50 AM »

The whole philosophy of the GJJ was THAT 95% of all fights end up on the ground.  Unless you knock the guy out with the first punch you are going to start grabbing each other.  That is where GJJ takes over.  If there is anyone out there who actually takes GJJ from a Gracie, do they still have you come to class in different types of clothing.  That was something Rorian did way back becuase you never knew when you going to fight.  You could be going to church one day and wearing fancy shoes and a long sleeve collared shirt and get in a fight. 
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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2006, 09:44:23 AM »

The whole philosophy of the GJJ was THAT 95% of all fights end up on the ground.  Unless you knock the guy out with the first punch you are going to start grabbing each other.  That is where GJJ takes over.  If there is anyone out there who actually takes GJJ from a Gracie, do they still have you come to class in different types of clothing.  That was something Rorian did way back becuase you never knew when you going to fight.  You could be going to church one day and wearing fancy shoes and a long sleeve collared shirt and get in a fight. 
What church do you go to
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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2006, 10:26:57 AM »

True to that but I think Joyce has a 40% chance of beating him

I think there is a 100% chance of you going down on your sister every night in your trailer home.
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2006, 11:53:47 AM »

I think there is a 100% chance of you going down on your sister every night in your trailer home.
Gee maybe after you finally pass your GED test you will say something clever,but we wont hold our breath
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2006, 12:23:38 PM »

Quote
What church do you go to

Well you never know when you may be groped by a priest
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2006, 12:29:03 PM »

he dominated in a time when nobody else had any fucking clue what he was doing to them .... basically, he was taking candy from babies .... its akin to mike tyson beating on bodybuilders in a boxing match

that being said, royce is the reason im training bjj right now and as he said he built the house that is MMA ....... so in effect, no, he is not overrated
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2006, 12:36:08 PM »

he had a style that no 1 knew how to react to. however once people realised that all you have to do is keep moving and work some guard, bjj lost it all. ive noticed a trend in todays mma, and that is that people are starting to use bjj less and less, bjj guys are also become more well rounded and standing up alot more often. when guys are going to the ground, other guys have good defense or just throw bombs or kiks until the other fighter gets up, in my opinion, gracie was not overrated, but bjj is overrated. def a need to know in mma, but i would not want it to be the backbone of my training.
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2006, 05:20:49 PM »

he had a style that no 1 knew how to react to. however once people realised that all you have to do is keep moving and work some guard, bjj lost it all. ive noticed a trend in todays mma, and that is that people are starting to use bjj less and less, bjj guys are also become more well rounded and standing up alot more often. when guys are going to the ground, other guys have good defense or just throw bombs or kiks until the other fighter gets up, in my opinion, gracie was not overrated, but bjj is overrated. def a need to know in mma, but i would not want it to be the backbone of my training.
A lot more guys are becoming "sprawlers & brawlers" now.  If I recall right, at UFC 58, only one match was decided on the ground (Edwards).  The rest was pretty much stand up w/ a few takedowns...
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