Heavy wt and high protein in bodybuilding?

[Teutonic Knight]

Ignore health food shops &  "healthy  food" supermarket sections .............

[Julio Ceasar]

I've done it, lol!

I don't believe the hype in the ads, it's rediculous. But 50gr whey with ground up oats and blended frozen berries is an awesome way to get cals at key times.

I hate to eat (I know... deal with it...) am an ecto. To get 5k cals all from whole food is not possible on a day in day out basis.

I tried, ended up eating less and actually lost weight when I was trying to gain!

  Why do u buy protein powder haha? 5k calories each day? U must be at fat fuck! Your atleast 40 pound overweight! Ofcourse u think its all muscle and some water...

Please post picture of your current shape!

[Van_Bilderass]

No not really, but it's complicated . Here's why?
I did use small amounts of juice from 1983-86 and trained on the Mentzer Heavy Duty system.
The majority of my use was cutting drugs like Winnie V and anavar.
I was able to compete at the top end of the Lt Hvy class doing this. I'm 5 ft 9.5 in

During 1986, it got tougher to make wt for Lt Hvy ( 198.25 lbs)
My last show on a cycle was in Sept of 1986.
I won the Overall at the NPC  River City in Athens, AL ( near Huntsville) weighing 204 lbs .

I competed at the Jr USA in the spring of 1988 after being off  'roids for a year and was a ripped 192.5 lbs at weigh in.

I went back to college full time and didn't compete again until 1992.
I competed in mostly Untested NPC shows as a drug free Lt Hvy from 1992-95.
In order to look ripped I had to compete around 186 lbs in 1993.

Under the advice of Mike Ferguson I decreased cardio and greatly increased my reps doing sets of 12, 15 , 20 or even 100 reps. I got awesome pumps and was able to compete at 196 lbs in Aug of 1994 and won the NPC Ironman Natural in Baton Rouge, La. I also had the strictest diet and logged all my food for 6 mos.

Conclusion- It was a lot easier to come in looking fuller and ripped on drugs, even the small cycles I used.
I was able to compete 8-10 lbs heavier and it didn't take long until it was really tough to compete as a Lt Hvy.

It took, 2 straight years of serious training and a lot of painful high rep set with strict, rigid diet to compete again in the 190's , looking ripped.  I was in my mid 30's by then and at  my physical peak for bodybuilding.

Had I stayed on moderate cycles and really got into the nutrition, I believe I could have peaked out around 215-220 by 1994, which is a good 25 lbs heavier then I got without drugs in the same  time frame.

It's all hypothetical but I hope I provided a decent answer.

Yeah it's complicated, especially when drugs are involved at some stages and not at others.
It's hard for me to count something as progress when you are regaining muscle you once held.
For me it gets interesting when you go through plateaus, when you hit a completely new and higher muscular weight. I haven't gained shit in many years but when I've been at my most muscular I've been stronger, eaten more in general and used more drugs than previously.
So basically my philosophy is "more" in all aspects.

I haven't really seen many talk about just how rarely we sit at a new high, most of the time we are just holding, slightly regressing or regaining lost size. There is a lot of talk about progress by trainees but it's just not progress in reality - real gains are rare, or we'd all be insanely muscular and strong.

This general lack of progress is apparent on all levels, especially at pro levels. Most do not gain much as pros and when they do they are pushing everything hard, training, drugs and food. Rarely is the progress due to lowering some aspect.

[Powerlift66]

no shit, youd think theyd move onto the next challeng like electricity

I get ripped on kale/vodka shakes I make in my Nutribullet...

[ritch]

Why do u buy protein powder haha? 5k calories each day? U must be at fat fuck! Your atleast 40 pound overweight! Ofcourse u think its all muscle and some water...

Please post picture of your current shape!

Dude... I'm an ecto... not overweight and is a challenge to hold 230lbs.

[honest]

I train on an empty stomach each morning have for years, I haven't grown since the 90s, I have done no more than tried to stop the wasting away of my peak, 15 years on I walk around skinny fat at the weight I was on stage at, I know training and protein holds it, but I'm gradually going backwards as my body lowers hormones, did TRT for a few years it isn't for me, I actually feel better of it and cardio wise there is a benefit lost with its use and as life now is about how long I can go, not how big, I prefer the natural system less workouts more cardio.

[SF1900]

I train on an empty stomach each morning have for years, I haven't grown since the 90s, I have done no more than tried to stop the wasting away of my peak, 15 years on I walk around skinny fat at the weight I was on stage at, I know training and protein holds it, but I'm gradually going backwards as my body lowers hormones, did TRT for a few years it isn't for me, I actually feel better of it and cardio wise there is a benefit lost with its use and as life now is about how long I can go, not how big, I prefer the natural system less workouts more cardio.

How old are you?

[honest]

44, got out of the sport at 27 didn't want to keep upping the dose, getting beaten by people with less genetics but who are prepared to do more ius and mgs is the biggest frustration i see in the sport, no sore loser i won that last show, it was just what i had to do on that level to be competitive on the next level that forced me out.

[Thespritz0]

The typical combination of liftting heavier wts and massive consumption of protein rarely worked for me.
Moderate wts , getting a good pump combined with a basic low cal diet always worked well.
* training 3-4 days a week/moderate HIT and basic low fat , moderate pro diet never failed.

Over the past 38 yrs I've tried every kind of diet, supplement and lifting routine.
Most of the "hardcore" routines and diets failed to get good results.
Not sure why?

^^
MOSTLY because if you go TOO heavy you just hurt your tendons and joints...
ALSO, moderate weights in a fast routine to "speed" the pump seems to get the job done anyways...
Worked for Sergio Oliva!

[Howard]

Yeah it's complicated, especially when drugs are involved at some stages and not at others.
It's hard for me to count something as progress when you are regaining muscle you once held.
For me it gets interesting when you go through plateaus, when you hit a completely new and higher muscular weight. I haven't gained shit in many years but when I've been at my most muscular I've been stronger, eaten more in general and used more drugs than previously.
So basically my philosophy is "more" in all aspects.

I haven't really seen many talk about just how rarely we sit at a new high, most of the time we are just holding, slightly regressing or regaining lost size. There is a lot of talk about progress by trainees but it's just not progress in reality - real gains are rare, or we'd all be insanely muscular and strong.

This general lack of progress is apparent on all levels, especially at pro levels. Most do not gain much as pros and when they do they are pushing everything hard, training, drugs and food. Rarely is the progress due to lowering some aspect.

Thanks for the reply and understanding why it's tough for me to know exactly what drugs gave me in terms of muscle gains. The great ones seem to make steady gains after they turn pro. Ronnie is the best example as he went from 217 to 286 in 12 yrs as a pro.

I sometimes wonder what I could have done , had I stayed with it and pushed the drug envelope a bit more in my prime years of age 28-35. I'm sure others have wondered the same thing in their own BB lives.
In the end , all that matters is what we actually accomplish regardless of the means.

[Van_Bilderass]

Thanks for the reply and understanding why it's tough for me to know exactly what drugs gave me in terms of muscle gains. The great ones seem to make steady gains after they turn pro. Ronnie is the best example as he went from 217 to 286 in 12 yrs as a pro.

I sometimes wonder what I could have done , had I stayed with it and pushed the drug envelope a bit more in my prime years of age 28-35. I'm sure others have wondered the same thing in their own BB lives.
In the end , all that matters is what we actually accomplish regardless of the means.

Well, Ronnie ate more, trained heavier and most importantly juiced extremely heavy to make those gains.
As a result he is a mess today, can't even walk normally. There's a price to be paid for being the biggest freak in the world.