Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1767714 times)

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9900 on: December 03, 2023, 07:55:54 PM »
Cry harder shitcoiner, almost crying as hard as Charles hoskinson with the news Cardano is being labelled  a security. Grown man in control of a "shitcoin" screaming and crying online. Yeah, that's the sort of shitcoin/company I want to invest in.

Weather you like it or not Btc is "precious", scarce and desirable. Don't convince me of your shitcoinery, start convincing countries who are adopting it. If you want your shitcoin to flourish and pump then plead your case with the powers that are bring it to the forefront.

Start with Argentina, El Salvador you're  too late. Eth and other shitcoins  are classified securities there.

BTW, what's going on with Eth? That was set to flip btc, I mean with all these changes surely they'd get one right  that would catapult their price way past 100k? I'm sure in time I'll  be proven wrong and many countries will adopt it .


You must have a hard time reading, I've addressed this. Btc mining pools are composed of many individual miners that come and go. They aren't in control of the hashrate, it's miners from all over the world. Miners dont control the network. Seems pretty decentrilised to me. The cost factor to initiate a 51% attack would send a country bankrupt  and we would see it coming from a mile away.

What happens to Eth when it hits 10-20-30k? How many people can afford to be validators with 32 Eth? It's almost as if the more Eth grows the more centralised it becomes to those with wealth. Sound familiar?

Why are you talking  about profits and no more btc mined? That's 100+ years from now when you and I are long dead and the financial system will be vastly different than the one today. So, who cares?
Give me a break. Bitcoin was developed because of government overreach and FIAT devaluation. Now BTC MaxiPADS are championing the SEC to go after competing projects. Do you want to know why someone like Michael Saylor is doing this? Because the fucker wants to pump his own bags. He reckons altcoins are stealing gains from Bitcoin. He'd rather see all money flow into Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin. Not because he is a swell guy, or because Bitcoin is so amazing. It's because that's what he bought into and he can't jump to other projects without incurring a capital gains tax. He's committed to Bitcoin now 100%. So he is going to talk it up 100%.

After BTC halving in 2032, the block reward will be 0.78125 BTC. 4 years later, in 2036, it will be at 0.39 BTC. By 2048, the block reward will drop to 0.04882812 BTC. That's 24 years from now. If BTC is worth $1 million, the block reward would be worth $48.828.12 in 2048. Not sure how much electricity is required to mine one block, but this site claims: The average household electricity cost to mine 1 Bitcoin is $46,291.24, which is 35% higher than the average daily price of 1 BTC in July 2023 ($30,090.08)

https://cointracking.info/blog/bitcoin-halving/
https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/bitcoin-mining-cost

Energy costs will probably go up significantly in the next 24 years. It will be interesting to see how much it would cost to mine 1 Bitcoin block in 2048, when the reward will be a payment of 0.04882812 BTC. Perhaps Bitcoin is $10 million by then? Who knows. But it does make you think about how sustainable the Bitcoin POW model will be even well before the last fraction of a BTC is mined. And this will become an issue much sooner than 100 years from now.

Regarding ETH Staking:

You can stake ETH on Lido, Coinbase, Binance, etc. with less than 32 ETH. Yes, it is risky on an exchange. Life is risky. When I was mining ETH via POW, I burned through two outlets. But they were in metal boxes and the circuits were also in conduits. So nothing burned down. But my point is, that everything has a risk attached to it. Risk takers are the ones that have the potential to make or lose money more so than someone who is only content with a 9-5 job. That's just the way it works in life.

Even though liquid staking exists for smaller players, there are plans to upgrade staking to promote even more decentralization.

https://crypto.news/vitalik-buterin-unveils-major-overhaul-of-ethereum-staking-to-enhance-decentralization/

I mined on many pools. I also bought hashing power on NiceHash and redirected the hash power to my Ethereum miner address. The NiceHash power was lumped in with my own personal miners, only it was much bigger. For reference, with around 40 high powered GPUs, you would have a hash rate of close to 1.5 Gh/s. With NiceHash, I had 80 Gh/s at my disposal, or more. The hash power was purchased with Bitcoin. The more hash power you requested, the faster your BTC deposit was depleted. I also had my GPUs mine for NiceHash, In this case, the roles are reversed and other customers purchased hash power and my miners worked for those customers. NiceHash paid me in BTC. The point is, NiceHash could redirect all that hash power as needed. Even though it was a pool, they could control where all the collective hash rate went.

From ChatGPT:

In a decentralized and trustless system like Bitcoin, mining pools operate based on the principle of following the rules of the Bitcoin protocol. The hashrate of a mining pool is the combined computational power of all the miners within that pool. While mining pools can't directly redirect the hashrate of individual miners without their consent, the pool itself can make decisions on how to allocate its collective hashrate.

Mining pools typically allow miners to connect their mining hardware to the pool's mining server, and they work together to solve cryptographic puzzles and validate transactions. The pool's operator can influence the distribution of work among miners, but this is usually in accordance with the principles of fair and transparent mining.

However, if a mining pool were to act maliciously or against the best interests of the Bitcoin network, it could potentially engage in activities that redirect or concentrate the hashrate in a way that is harmful to the network's security. This could include conducting a 51% attack, where a single entity or a coalition of miners controls more than 50% of the network's total hashrate, potentially allowing them to censor transactions or double-spend coins.

It's important to note that such actions would likely be detrimental to the long-term value and integrity of Bitcoin, as the decentralized nature of the network is a key feature that contributes to its security and resilience.

In practice, reputable mining pools are incentivized to act in the best interest of the Bitcoin network to maintain the trust of miners and users. Miners also have the option to choose which pool they want to join, and they can switch to a different pool if they disagree with the pool operator's policies or behavior.



gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9901 on: December 04, 2023, 01:27:31 AM »
Give me a break. Bitcoin was developed because of government overreach and FIAT devaluation. Now BTC MaxiPADS are championing the SEC to go after competing projects. Do you want to know why someone like Michael Saylor is doing this? Because the fucker wants to pump his own bags. He reckons altcoins are stealing gains from Bitcoin. He'd rather see all money flow into Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin.

Obsidian - I believe I explained to you earlier, there is not really any "alt" to Bitcoin in terms of Bitcoin's function of universal money and a universal decentralized store of value. Indeed the use of the term "alt" is misnomer insofar as it suggests there are alternatives, similar to Bitcoin, for this purpose. It of course is very appealing to alt-losers / idiots and fools / gamblers / suckers etc, to believe that they can get "something as good as Bitcoin" (or even "better than Bitcoin"), for a cheaper price. We all know this is a load of nonsense. United in an agreed universal store of value we thrive, divided and diluted we fall - a very basic economic concept. You can devote all the effort you like to promote shitcoins - ultimately you will fail. You would be far better off aligning your efforts with promoting the adoption of Bitcoin, and thriving from the ongoing adoption of a long term trend.

Most of the so-called "alts" are actually, if anything, alternatives to a shareholding in listed companies (albeit companies which are very risky, and typically outright scams with zero prospect of long term success).  They are shares, represented by "tokens", in ventures/projects, which have not been registered securities, despite US securities law requiring this to be done.

The US stock market has thrived over the decades because of regulation and oversight providing investor protection and certainty, resulting in the attraction of investor capital from all around the world. Unregistered securities primarily benefit the issuer at huge risk to any investor. So it is quite right that for public offerings to US investors, companies seeking investor funds should comply with the law.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9902 on: December 04, 2023, 03:04:10 AM »
Thanks for helping to burn ETH! I checked a while ago and the 1 hour deflation was -1%. Now its around -.78%. Since the Merge it's been -0.198%. It will be interesting to see how much it deflates in a real bull market.

But why are you doing shitty transactions to pay $21 in fees? I've never paid that much for an ETH transaction. And could you not have used an L2 for the transaction? I would not do a high-dollar transaction on a Layer 2, but smaller transactions? Sure!

I used ETH to purchase degenerate POS coins. Or is ETH a network for the rich only?

BTC I still believe fits with digital gold.

ETH I have no idea what it’s supposed to be. You can’t transact on it due to fees therefore, what is it supposed to do?

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obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9904 on: December 04, 2023, 12:53:09 PM »
Why ETH is centralized garbage:

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/10/06/ethereum-has-become-more-centralized-since-the-merge-and-shanghai-upgrades-jpmorgan/


Way to convince people to join the BTC bandwagon by calling legitimate projects garbage. Wow! That precious MaxiPAD is wearing a Bitcoin shirt lol! Not even going to watch it. If ETH was garbage, why does it have the most developers working on it? Why would Blackrock file an ETH Spot ETF?

Bitcoin Maxis are extremely shortsighted and cringy with their total devotion to Bitcoin and only Bitcoin. The world's a big place and there's plenty of room for other projects. Bitcoin is unsuitable for doing things that Ethereum or Solana can and will do and would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. Eventually, Bitcoin's POW model will become an issue, once future halving cycles dwindles the block rewards down to fractions of a BTC. And I would I think as soon as 24 years from now, if not sooner.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9905 on: December 04, 2023, 12:54:17 PM »
I used ETH to purchase degenerate POS coins. Or is ETH a network for the rich only?

BTC I still believe fits with digital gold.

ETH I have no idea what it’s supposed to be. You can’t transact on it due to fees therefore, what is it supposed to do?
False. Learn about L2s.

https://l2fees.info/

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9906 on: December 04, 2023, 01:11:38 PM »
Obsidian - I believe I explained to you earlier, there is not really any "alt" to Bitcoin in terms of Bitcoin's function of universal money and a universal decentralized store of value. Indeed the use of the term "alt" is misnomer insofar as it suggests there are alternatives, similar to Bitcoin, for this purpose. It of course is very appealing to alt-losers / idiots and fools / gamblers / suckers etc, to believe that they can get "something as good as Bitcoin" (or even "better than Bitcoin"), for a cheaper price. We all know this is a load of nonsense. United in an agreed universal store of value we thrive, divided and diluted we fall - a very basic economic concept. You can devote all the effort you like to promote shitcoins - ultimately you will fail. You would be far better off aligning your efforts with promoting the adoption of Bitcoin, and thriving from the ongoing adoption of a long term trend.

Most of the so-called "alts" are actually, if anything, alternatives to a shareholding in listed companies (albeit companies which are very risky, and typically outright scams with zero prospect of long term success).  They are shares, represented by "tokens", in ventures/projects, which have not been registered securities, despite US securities law requiring this to be done.

The US stock market has thrived over the decades because of regulation and oversight providing investor protection and certainty, resulting in the attraction of investor capital from all around the world. Unregistered securities primarily benefit the issuer at huge risk to any investor. So it is quite right that for public offerings to US investors, companies seeking investor funds should comply with the law.
GIB, I think Bitcoin is a sound investment. But I don't agree that it is the only investment and nothing else is an option.

You've heard of the Kennedy Shoeshine Boy story.

https://www.pitzlfinancial.com/blog/ode-shoeshine-boy#:~:text=In%201929%2C%20at%20the%20height,of%20his%20favorite%20stock%20picks.

"In 1929, at the height of an economic boom in America, Joseph Kennedy Sr. (father of JFK) was working as a stockbroker on Wall Street. As the story goes, Joseph was walking around when he decided to sit down for a shoeshine. While polishing his shoes, the young worker gave Joseph some of his favorite stock picks. When Joseph heard the shoeshine boy giving out stock tips, he figured the party was about to end, and it was time to get out of the market. Joseph proceeded to exit his positions in the market and bought short positions that bet on the market going down.

Shortly after that, the stock market entered a free fall. On Monday, October 28, 1929, the market dropped about 13%. The next day it fell another 12%. These became better known as Black Monday and Black Tuesday, and ushered the United States into The Great Depression."


There's a saying that you should buy something when nobody is talking about it and sell when everyone talks about it. Most crypto influencers are only promoting Bitcoin. The average Joe on the street only knows about Bitcoin. And that's where they are missing out on getting into other crypto projects that will most likely result in bigger gains. Yes, you're still early if you buy Bitcoin now. And even more so for Ethereum, Solana, and a few others.

It's likely that Ethereum will outperform Bitcoin in a bull market. And Solana will outperform Ethereum. Bitcoin has a larger market cap and requires more money to flow into the project to move the price. Solana has a smaller market cap and already dumped hard after the FTX fiasco. But it has a thriving community / network effect, is fast (albeit more centralized and prone to shutdowns), and has institutional interest. It's more risky than Bitcoin, but with risk comes the chance of a bigger reward. I currently don't own any Solana but I might look into getting some in 2024.

Ethereum has a really interesting tokenomics right now. We have not yet seen how deflationary it will become in a true bull market. Its inflation has been lower than Bitcoin since the Merge. Long-term Bitcoin's finite supply gives it an edge because it is still unknown what Ethereum's supply will be in the future. Some might argue that lower fees will reduce the amount of ETH burned. Then again, if more transactions occur, it would make up for the lack of ETH burning. What's the use case for ETH L2s If ETH gas fees are lowered significantly in future upgrades? See below...

https://medium.com/blockchain-biz/will-ethereum-2-0-render-existing-layer-2-solutions-obsolete-143c9f98330c

Can Ethereum 2.0 and Layer 2 Solutions Co-Exist?
Let’s take a moment to reflect on the purpose of the Ethereum 2.0 upgrade and existing Layer 2 solutions built on the Ethereum network. At their core, each of these are focused on trying to solve the same issue — scalability.

Layer 2 solutions were built first primarily to solve for the bottlenecks occurring on Ethereum’s base layer. However, once Ethereum 2.0 is in motion, what purpose will Layer 2s serve if the base layer they were built to scale is now exponentially more efficient itself? Will Layer 2s become obsolete as a result?

To answer this question, it is helpful to reflect on Ethereum’s vision, which is to bring Ethereum into the mainstream and serve all of humanity. This is a grand vision and one that requires scaling for a future that contemplates much more than 4% of the total population owning crypto. Even if the Ethereum 2.0 upgrade is able to significantly expand the network’s throughput, it is still questionable whether it would be able to support a future world with billions of potential daily crypto users without becoming congested.

The relationship between Ethereum 2.0 and its existing Layer 2 solutions is therefore likely to be symbiotic. This implies a world with different scaling solutions working in harmony, allowing for an exponential effect on future transaction speeds and throughput. It is these combined effects, and not one or the other, that Ethereum is planning for in order to achieve its vision.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9907 on: December 04, 2023, 08:29:59 PM »
GIB, I think Bitcoin is a sound investment. But I don't agree that it is the only investment and nothing else is an option.



Risk is everything in investing, of course there are assets that will outperform Bitcoin but it’s impossible to know which

It’s like saying the returns of powerball can beat a Vanguard index fund. It’s true but irresponsible to suggest as a strategy.

You can cherry pick numerous examples from many asset classes over many timeframes to make various points. ABC shitcoin might outperform it over any 1, 2, or 3 year period looking forward.

I would challenge you to find a single asset of any type that has better risk/reward characteristics looking forward

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9908 on: December 05, 2023, 08:01:29 AM »
Agree, and @Theoak, I would you are really mixing up asset classes when comparing Bitcoin with other investment schemes you call "crypto".

Bitcoin is a cryptographic currency. Its role is to act as the world's digital medium of exchange and store of value.

As I have mentioned earlier, the other assets you have mentioned, are more akin to a shareholding in unlisted companies (albeit companies which are very risky, and typically outright scams with zero prospect of long term success).  They are shares, represented by "tokens", in ventures/projects, which have not been registered securities, despite US securities law requiring this to be done. They are most certainly not pure currencies, although they do have tokens representing an ownership an a venture, which can be traded. (The main probem here, is that almost all such ventures are absolute BS, or trade at a value no where close to the market cap of the tokens. FileCoin might be a rare exception here, but even there, FileCoin, whist an amazing venture, is certainly not "cheap" by traditional VC valuation standards, although it is one of the most "legit" ventures I have analyzed, represented by electronically tradable tokens).

That is not to say that an investment in art, or gold, or shares or property or unregistered securities or lottery tickets may not be successful. They might well be, especially if you happen to "get lucky". Of all these assets, those where an investor really knows what they are doing, and can add value with their analysis, include property and stocks, less so in gold, even less so in art, and once you get into the "crypto / lottery tickets" you really are kidding yourself if you think you know what you are doing in terms of having any hope of trying to calculate and justify your "investment" on fundamental value (although possibly at a very macro level you can do OK - ie like now, knowing that BTC's rise will float all boats due to scam victims still not understanding how alt promoters schill BTC value into empty alt promises).

The sly part of the alt scam, is convincing innocent suckers that the tokens being issued are somehow an "alternative" to Bitcoin. They are not. Happens every cycle, and every cycle, these "investors" end up eventually getting brutally raped. In terms of BTC's purpose and goals, we are as GetBiggers all much much better off aligning our focus to BTC. United we stand, united we thrive.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9909 on: December 05, 2023, 09:20:37 AM »
Just blasted through 43K...

Reminds me of the good old days at the beginning of the prior BTC cycle back in 2019, during the 3K price moving up to 5K price phase (which ultimately peaked at 64K). Only this time, 4 years later in the next cycle, (we have an added zero), 30K moving up to 50K phase. Time will tell if we peak at 640K...

I am by no means a fan of charts, but the chart does look like a God-candle is possibly forming.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9910 on: December 05, 2023, 10:25:01 AM »
Just blasted through 43K...

Reminds me of the good old days at the beginning of the prior BTC cycle back in 2019, during the 3K price moving up to 5K price phase (which ultimately peaked at 64K). Only this time, 4 years later in the next cycle, (we have an added zero), 30K moving up to 50K phase. Time will tell if we peak at 640K...

I am by no means a fan of charts, but the chart does look like a God-candle is possibly forming.
BTC is on a roll for sure. At 43.5K now. Maybe it will shoot up to 50K soon. Will be interesting to see if BTC breaks the ATH price before the halving next year.

ETH is not doing too shabby either, right behind BTC. It will be hilarious if ETH also breaks an ATH before the halving. Time will tell.

Glad for all the BTC holders. I won't begrudge anyone making gains, no matter which project they have invested in! One day I will get into BTC. Not via FIAT, but via crypto trades. I also plan on getting some Solana and Chainlink. Maybe some degen stuff like PEPE and Shiba. But small amounts...

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9911 on: December 05, 2023, 11:16:13 AM »
Quite something that BTC, with a much larger market cap, is outperforming smaller "alts" despite it being far easier for an alt to move in % terms due to its relatively smaller cap. Again, a great bullish signal, indicating money in the "crypto ecosystem" is moving into a quality asset over time.

Retail investors (and obviously the institutional investors of finance) are understanding that Bitcoin is not crypto.

Obsidian - the best advice I can give to you, or anyone, is simply to stack and HODL. Imagine reading this thread in 10 years time how you will feel if you don't start now. You still have a massive head start over most the rest of the world, both in terms of knowledge, access to Sats, and access to money to convert into Sats. Do not squander this very obvious opportunity.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9912 on: December 05, 2023, 11:59:04 AM »
Quite something that BTC, with a much larger market cap, is outperforming smaller "alts" despite it being far easier for an alt to move in % terms due to its relatively smaller cap. Again, a great bullish signal, indicating money in the "crypto ecosystem" is moving into a quality asset over time.

Retail investors (and obviously the institutional investors of finance) are understanding that Bitcoin is not crypto.

Obsidian - the best advice I can give to you, or anyone, is simply to stack and HODL. Imagine reading this thread in 10 years time how you will feel if you don't start now. You still have a massive head start over most the rest of the world, both in terms of knowledge, access to Sats, and access to money to convert into Sats. Do not squander this very obvious opportunity.
LOL
T

Slapper

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9913 on: December 05, 2023, 01:49:33 PM »
Folks, reminder: Don’t let the charlatans separate you from your (future) money.

There is a very high possibility that,  because we fell short in last bull market (price-wise,) we’re going to make up for it big time. This blow off top looks and sounds like it’s going to be insane.


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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9914 on: December 05, 2023, 02:40:02 PM »
Quite something that BTC, with a much larger market cap, is outperforming smaller "alts" despite it being far easier for an alt to move in % terms due to its relatively smaller cap. Again, a great bullish signal, indicating money in the "crypto ecosystem" is moving into a quality asset over time.

Retail investors (and obviously the institutional investors of finance) are understanding that Bitcoin is not crypto.

Obsidian - the best advice I can give to you, or anyone, is simply to stack and HODL. Imagine reading this thread in 10 years time how you will feel if you don't start now. You still have a massive head start over most the rest of the world, both in terms of knowledge, access to Sats, and access to money to convert into Sats. Do not squander this very obvious opportunity.

This is not retail  buying.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9915 on: December 06, 2023, 01:33:23 AM »
This is not retail  buying.

Combination of both retail, institutional, and sovereign wealth funds.

We know for sure that long term retail Bitcoiners continue to HODL and accumulate Sats.

We know that some who were in and now out (in last cycle) are sensing its time to re-enter.

We also know that first time retail buyers are also entering, Mums and Dads and Taxi drivers etc becoming interested again.
 
With everyone HODLing, it does not take much additional demand to move price.

Of course we have more nimble family offices, HNWs, and hedge funds accumulating. And we see some larger wallets accumulating also (quite possibly institutional).

And we have evidence (and also rumors) that various Governments are buying (or considering  - for example the sovereign wealth fund of Qatar is rumored to be poised to make a half trillion investment in Bitcoin - if that really happens, the impact on price, and on global interest in this asset, will be mind-blowing.)

But the really big driver, over time, in the immediate future, will be the US BTC ETF's. If we really see approvals next year, this will be a game changer in terms of funds consistently flowing in.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9916 on: December 06, 2023, 02:37:50 AM »
Combination of both retail, institutional, and sovereign wealth funds.

We know for sure that long term retail Bitcoiners continue to HODL and accumulate Sats.

We know that some who were in and now out (in last cycle) are sensing its time to re-enter.

We also know that first time retail buyers are also entering, Mums and Dads and Taxi drivers etc becoming interested again.
 
With everyone HODLing, it does not take much additional demand to move price.

Of course we have more nimble family offices, HNWs, and hedge funds accumulating. And we see some larger wallets accumulating also (quite possibly institutional).

And we have evidence (and also rumors) that various Governments are buying (or considering  - for example the sovereign wealth fund of Qatar is rumored to be poised to make a half trillion investment in Bitcoin - if that really happens, the impact on price, and on global interest in this asset, will be mind-blowing.)

But the really big driver, over time, in the immediate future, will be the US BTC ETF's. If we really see approvals next year, this will be a game changer in terms of funds consistently flowing in.

They dont have disposable income or stimmy checks. This is not the same market micro-structure as 2020.

This is all institutional and OG crypto money on the move.

Majority retail will come later on, like usual, late to the party.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9917 on: December 06, 2023, 02:40:24 AM »
BTC is on a roll for sure. At 43.5K now. Maybe it will shoot up to 50K soon. Will be interesting to see if BTC breaks the ATH price before the halving next year.

The experts agree that the halving at this point won't have any significant influence on the price anymore.

I guess the upcoming ETF might pump it up one last time slightly above the all-time high, and after that, the BTC/Crypto craze will eventually die off once and for all...

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9918 on: December 06, 2023, 03:07:48 AM »
They dont have disposable income or stimmy checks. This is not the same market micro-structure as 2020.

This is all institutional and OG crypto money on the move.

Majority retail will come later on, like usual, late to the party.

I would say we will also see many conservative yet huge sources of institutional wealth come in over time (and yes of course many retail investors. The good thing is that if BTC's rise in infinitely up against fiat over time, then its never "too late" to enter.

But entry point will of course influence total % gain. You know the old saying - "Everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve.."

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9919 on: December 06, 2023, 03:10:50 AM »
The experts agree that the halving at this point won't have any significant influence on the price anymore.

I guess the upcoming ETF might pump it up one last time slightly above the all-time high, and after that, the BTC/Crypto craze will eventually die off once and for all...

2 comments .

1. "Bitcoin, not crypto". Learn the distinction. Others will also.

2. Any halving, in theory should be "priced in". In reality, for many reasons, its not. Very simply, if demand remains constant, and new supply suddenly halves, then the price for that halved supply will increase.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9920 on: December 06, 2023, 03:59:40 AM »
Folks, retail isn’t even in yet. Let’s just say I work on the retail side (although I deal with institutional business) for one of the big 3 financial services firms in the world and have seen very little change in the positions held at DTC from a year ago to now.

Retail is going to come once the ETFs are approved.

Oh, and another thing, the ETF approvals are not going to be sell-the-news events. There are millions of retirement accounts out there, with hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars in them, waiting to go in. Once that happens, we will see Bitcoin hot numbers we thought were impossible. Don’t confuse a futures product, which is an institutional toy, to an ETF.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9921 on: December 06, 2023, 06:48:38 AM »
Folks, retail isn’t even in yet. Let’s just say I work on the retail side (although I deal with institutional business) for one of the big 3 financial services firms in the world and have seen very little change in the positions held at DTC from a year ago to now.

Retail is going to come once the ETFs are approved.

Oh, and another thing, the ETF approvals are not going to be sell-the-news events. There are millions of retirement accounts out there, with hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars in them, waiting to go in. Once that happens, we will see Bitcoin hot numbers we thought were impossible. Don’t confuse a futures product, which is an institutional toy, to an ETF.

Fully agree Slapper. By "retail" I meant individuals buying directly via exchanges and peer to peer - not direct via banks who offer BTC.

I move between a range of global jurisdictions for tax reasons, and have private banking relationships in each. I can confirm that the banks I bank with are only just really starting to offer BTC directly (as in the last 12 months or so). (They started cautiously with HNWs, then more to general customers, and all KYC compliant. But I do now see a BTC balance in the calculation among my total assets, and I can buy via an app on my phone.

When I enquire to my bankers about BTC demand from clients, they tell me there is growing interest, but still very low. If anything, the typical client still sees gold in the way the younger generation see BTC (and many of the "investment advisors" still feel more comfortable recommending gold). And of course the banks also allow you to store physical gold with them. But they are all consistent, interest in BTC is growing, and yes, the ETF approval is what will lead to their clients feeling more comfortable to move in and similarly for advisors to recommend a BTC ETF allocation.

It will be interesting to see how much the ETF's charge for management fee. As a comparison, the banks I am with are at 30 to 50 bps a year custody fee. They also charge a little more for purchase transaction fee than an exchange would.

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9922 on: December 06, 2023, 07:49:53 AM »
Folks, retail isn’t even in yet. Let’s just say I work on the retail side (although I deal with institutional business) for one of the big 3 financial services firms in the world and have seen very little change in the positions held at DTC from a year ago to now.

Retail is going to come once the ETFs are approved.

Oh, and another thing, the ETF approvals are not going to be sell-the-news events. There are millions of retirement accounts out there, with hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars in them, waiting to go in. Once that happens, we will see Bitcoin hot numbers we thought were impossible. Don’t confuse a futures product, which is an institutional toy, to an ETF.


Gold ETF. If this is any indication  it will be buy the rumour, buy the news.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9923 on: December 06, 2023, 10:28:50 AM »
Just out of interest, after Covid, I bought equal shares in the following US stocks (none of which I owned prior to then):

Alphabet - up 18%
Amazon - up 25%
Berkshire Hathaway - up 27%
Microsoft - up 44%

And the best performer...

MicroStrategy - up 104%

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #9924 on: December 06, 2023, 11:42:21 AM »

Dominance moving up to a point where last time it signalled a brief top.

With all 100x more token and NFT projects available the market is heavily diluted so I’d be surprised if we actually get to 60.

You guys beginning to sound euphoric but it would be funny if we ran straight to 76k early 2024 and it died in the ass for another 4yrs.

The last dominance move up took 577 days which if repeated takes us out to July 2024.