Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1130732 times)

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11300 on: October 15, 2024, 08:59:14 AM »
In 2017 Ethereum outperformed BTC dramatically for some time.


Almost any alt "outperforms" BTC initially after launch.

Almost no alt performs BTC for more than a single cycle...

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11301 on: October 15, 2024, 09:03:32 AM »
e.
I am happy to see the ETH inflation coming down again. It's now at 0.25% for the past 7 days, and 0.36% the past 30 days. Inflation peaked around 0.6% after the Dencun upgrade which lowered ETH fees in response to Solana, Avalanche and other chains with low fees. This indicates that the inflation has been trending down and transaction volumes have been up.

https://ultrasound.money/

Ethereum could very well go deflationary again even with the cheap fees. Note that Bitcoin's current inflation is 0.83% and Solana's is around 6-7%. So Ethereum's inflation is low in comparison. Binance BNB has a deflation narrative as well and might be reduced to around 100 million BNB in time.

To me the entire discussion about inflation / deflation of alts is irrelevant. If there is a pile of shit, which then shrinks by 2%, then more is added, then it shrinks again - etc. None of this changes what it fundamentally is.

BTC on the other hand, has a clearly defined algorithm, which (unlike Eth), hasd never changed, and it just keeps on ticking like clockwork, doing what it does. This, along with all its other properties, is what makes it the perfect ledger to be used as a store of value.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11302 on: October 15, 2024, 09:04:33 AM »

Solana has a lot of bot trading and the actual transaction speeds are exaggerated. It bogs down or grinds to a halt under certain conditions. The computing and storage requirements for Solana is also extreme. The Solana community keeps criticizing Ethereum's L2 strategy but behind the scenes they are working on their own L2 plans. Only they call them "Network Extensions".

A lot of research has gone into maintaining decentralization and security and improving transaction speed. The reality is there is no easy solution for that. If Solana claims ultra fast transaction speeds it means they are compromising somewhere else.


Fully agree.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11303 on: October 15, 2024, 09:22:43 AM »
I would not call $15k a touch below - which it currently is. I've been watching the price difference the past 6 months and the cost to mine 1 BTC has been anywhere from $10,000 - $30,000 more than buying 1 BTC during that period.

Miners are buying BTC because they are losing mining it. But without mining BTC stops working because transactions need to be confirmed. Bitcoin will never stop as long as there are individuals willing to mine it. But what will happen is mining will centralize more making Bitcoin's security model centralized. It's also vulnerable to energy supply issues because so much energy is required to maintain the hash rate.

For now, this won't be an issue. But I see it becoming a problem 16-24 years from now when miner yields will be 1/16th to 1/64th what they are now. Transaction fees would have to make up the difference to keep the network security high. But if BTC is a store of value and you're supposed to hold it, where will these transactions come from?

First of all, there are different published stats of what it costs to mine. The reality is, no knows for certain what the true average cost is, although we can make approximations.

Second, some starts show the average cost as being just marginally over market value, as in 1-5K (not 15K).

Third, what we do know, is that over time, the cost of production and market price have always been correlated (sometime over, sometimes under, for obvious reasons), but over time they converge and revert around each other. So, for example, let's assume your average cost of 80K per coin is correct - we could easily have a jump to BTC to 85-100K, at which point, mining would be highly profitable. And then after a period of time, hash rate goes up, mining gets less profitable, and cost of mining reverts again to the mean, and maybe even drops below due to optimistic over-investment in mining rigs. And then cycle repeats.

Fourth, with an "average cost", we know some miners will be mining cheaper than that average and some more expensive. So, those with the best equipment, and access to cheapest energy will be below that average, and some of course will be well below.

Fifth, many miners have an incentive to inflate cost of mining they report. Reasons include to maximize the reported total production cost to maximize tax losses, putting almost any expense of the company (including long term capital investment, advertising, cost of labour, lavish travel etc into the "cost", which if really needed they could easily cut.

Sixth, many miners report an inflated cost so as to deter competitors from entering. So, let's say you are making 10K a coin. What you will be telling the market is that even with your highly efficient operation, you are losing 15K a coin. This helps deter new entrants, and helps protect margins.

Seventh, the reason miners are buying coins, is fundamentally, because they consider its a better action that selling coins or retaining cash. They continue to mine like crazy and on top they hodl. These miners now remaining really know their stuff, and are making far more mathematically sophisticated decisions, hedging, arbitrage, forecasting and financial modeling etc.

Eighth - mining will wane thorough various phases of centralization, and decentralization, due to numerous economic, political, technological, and free-market factors. We will also see a "decentralisation within centralization" framework emerge over time. I will write a longer post on this at some point, but I think you and Mayday may already have a sense of what I mean here.

OK - signing off for now. Let the BTC pump strong! (All other alts will follow - but don't forget, the supply of alts is infinite, where the total supply of global wealth is not).

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11304 on: October 15, 2024, 09:31:44 AM »
Check out this discussion, about what Larry Fink, perhaps the most influential man on Wall St, just said about how BTC is poised to displace property as a store of wealth.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unusual_whales/comments/1g3ukqi/blackrock_blk_ceo_larry_fink_said_today_that/


obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11305 on: October 15, 2024, 11:53:52 AM »
To me the entire discussion about inflation / deflation of alts is irrelevant. If there is a pile of shit, which then shrinks by 2%, then more is added, then it shrinks again - etc. None of this changes what it fundamentally is.

BTC on the other hand, has a clearly defined algorithm, which (unlike Eth), hasd never changed, and it just keeps on ticking like clockwork, doing what it does. This, along with all its other properties, is what makes it the perfect ledger to be used as a store of value.
The Bitcoin algorithm, specifically its consensus mechanism known as Proof of Work (PoW) and the underlying cryptographic principles, has not fundamentally changed since its creation in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto. However, Bitcoin has undergone several updates and improvements to its software through soft forks and hard forks that have enhanced functionality, security, and scalability. These updates have not changed the core algorithm itself but have introduced optimizations. Some key developments include:

1. BIP Process: Bitcoin Improvement Proposals (BIPs) are how changes to the Bitcoin protocol are proposed and implemented. Many small upgrades have been made through this process.

2. Segregated Witness (SegWit) (2017): This was a significant soft fork that modified how transaction data is stored, improving Bitcoin's scalability by increasing the block size limit and fixing transaction malleability.

3. Taproot (2021): Taproot is another soft fork that improved Bitcoin's privacy, security, and smart contract capabilities. It optimized how Bitcoin transactions are processed, particularly for complex transactions involving multiple parties.

4. Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm: The difficulty of the PoW algorithm is regularly adjusted (about every two weeks) to ensure that new blocks are mined approximately every 10 minutes, but the core mining algorithm (SHA-256 hashing) has not changed.

While there have been various improvements to Bitcoin's software, the core principles of the protocol and algorithm remain the same as those originally outlined by Nakamoto.

Ethereum has seen two changes to the algorithm:

1. Original Algorithm (2015–2022): Proof of Work (Ethash).
2. Current Algorithm (Post-2022): Proof of Stake as part of Ethereum 2.0.

Bitcoin might have to switch to POS eventually or another method of consensus. And the removal of the 21 million cap with a low inflation / burning mechanism introduced.

The POW model does not scale well when BTC rewards are miniscule and when transaction fees are supposed to be the main incentive to secure the BTC network.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11306 on: October 15, 2024, 12:18:21 PM »
First of all, there are different published stats of what it costs to mine. The reality is, no knows for certain what the true average cost is, although we can make approximations.

Second, some starts show the average cost as being just marginally over market value, as in 1-5K (not 15K).

Third, what we do know, is that over time, the cost of production and market price have always been correlated (sometime over, sometimes under, for obvious reasons), but over time they converge and revert around each other. So, for example, let's assume your average cost of 80K per coin is correct - we could easily have a jump to BTC to 85-100K, at which point, mining would be highly profitable. And then after a period of time, hash rate goes up, mining gets less profitable, and cost of mining reverts again to the mean, and maybe even drops below due to optimistic over-investment in mining rigs. And then cycle repeats.

Fourth, with an "average cost", we know some miners will be mining cheaper than that average and some more expensive. So, those with the best equipment, and access to cheapest energy will be below that average, and some of course will be well below.

Fifth, many miners have an incentive to inflate cost of mining they report. Reasons include to maximize the reported total production cost to maximize tax losses, putting almost any expense of the company (including long term capital investment, advertising, cost of labour, lavish travel etc into the "cost", which if really needed they could easily cut.

Sixth, many miners report an inflated cost so as to deter competitors from entering. So, let's say you are making 10K a coin. What you will be telling the market is that even with your highly efficient operation, you are losing 15K a coin. This helps deter new entrants, and helps protect margins.

Seventh, the reason miners are buying coins, is fundamentally, because they consider its a better action that selling coins or retaining cash. They continue to mine like crazy and on top they hodl. These miners now remaining really know their stuff, and are making far more mathematically sophisticated decisions, hedging, arbitrage, forecasting and financial modeling etc.

Eighth - mining will wane thorough various phases of centralization, and decentralization, due to numerous economic, political, technological, and free-market factors. We will also see a "decentralisation within centralization" framework emerge over time. I will write a longer post on this at some point, but I think you and Mayday may already have a sense of what I mean here.

OK - signing off for now. Let the BTC pump strong! (All other alts will follow - but don't forget, the supply of alts is infinite, where the total supply of global wealth is not).
I referenced the source you provided. It now indicates the difference is $17k between mining and buying.

https://en.macromicro.me/charts/29435/bitcoin-production-total-cost

Places like Iran has cheap energy and the cost to mine 1 BTC would be less. But they still have to acquire the hardware which is not an insignificant amount.

Mining 1 Bitcoin in Ireland costs up to $321,112, while in Iran, miners pay just $1,324 – Over 240 times cheaper.
A miner in Iran could mine over 42 Bitcoins for the same energy cost required to mine just one Bitcoin in Ireland.
^^^^^^^^^^
These are only electrical costs. Nobody is mining 1 BTC in Iran for $1,324. They would have to spend a lot more on hardware initially. And provide a building, internet, etc.

https://nftevening.com/bitcoin-mining-cost/

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11307 on: October 16, 2024, 01:52:30 AM »
The Bitcoin algorithm, specifically its consensus mechanism known as Proof of Work (PoW) and the underlying cryptographic principles, has not fundamentally changed since its creation in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto. However, Bitcoin has undergone several updates and improvements to its software through soft forks and hard forks that have enhanced functionality, security, and scalability. These updates have not changed the core algorithm itself but have introduced optimizations. Some key developments include:

1. BIP Process: Bitcoin Improvement Proposals (BIPs) are how changes to the Bitcoin protocol are proposed and implemented. Many small upgrades have been made through this process.

2. Segregated Witness (SegWit) (2017): This was a significant soft fork that modified how transaction data is stored, improving Bitcoin's scalability by increasing the block size limit and fixing transaction malleability.

3. Taproot (2021): Taproot is another soft fork that improved Bitcoin's privacy, security, and smart contract capabilities. It optimized how Bitcoin transactions are processed, particularly for complex transactions involving multiple parties.

4. Difficulty Adjustment Algorithm: The difficulty of the PoW algorithm is regularly adjusted (about every two weeks) to ensure that new blocks are mined approximately every 10 minutes, but the core mining algorithm (SHA-256 hashing) has not changed.

While there have been various improvements to Bitcoin's software, the core principles of the protocol and algorithm remain the same as those originally outlined by Nakamoto.

Ethereum has seen two changes to the algorithm:

1. Original Algorithm (2015–2022): Proof of Work (Ethash).
2. Current Algorithm (Post-2022): Proof of Stake as part of Ethereum 2.0.

Bitcoin might have to switch to POS eventually or another method of consensus. And the removal of the 21 million cap with a low inflation / burning mechanism introduced.

The POW model does not scale well when BTC rewards are miniscule and when transaction fees are supposed to be the main incentive to secure the BTC network.

Agree with most of that. Key thing is that BTC's core properties are rock solid. So, take a gold bar for example - you can make it into coins, jewellery, put specks into watches, but the core property remains gold. You don't go and turn it into a who new element but changing core properties by messing around with issuance, burning, inflating / reflating etc - do that and your store of value is forever destroyed.

POW has scaled beautifully, and it is this work (and the proof of it) which creates a scarcity tied to the physical world (namely energy). If no work was required, we could all just create coins of value at a whim. (Same reason why gold has value by the way).

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11308 on: October 16, 2024, 01:57:03 AM »
I referenced the source you provided. It now indicates the difference is $17k between mining and buying.

https://en.macromicro.me/charts/29435/bitcoin-production-total-cost

Places like Iran has cheap energy and the cost to mine 1 BTC would be less. But they still have to acquire the hardware which is not an insignificant amount.

Mining 1 Bitcoin in Ireland costs up to $321,112, while in Iran, miners pay just $1,324 – Over 240 times cheaper.
A miner in Iran could mine over 42 Bitcoins for the same energy cost required to mine just one Bitcoin in Ireland.
^^^^^^^^^^
These are only electrical costs. Nobody is mining 1 BTC in Iran for $1,324. They would have to spend a lot more on hardware initially. And provide a building, internet, etc.

https://nftevening.com/bitcoin-mining-cost/

Yes, its one source of many. Right now it indicates the cost of mining on 5 October was at 72, and price of a BTC is now around 66. Please do take notes of the points I made above about the relevance and accuracy of mining costs and the factors that impact the reporting of these costs. Very likely we soon see a swing into BTC being more expensive than cost to mine, as explained above, is a natural cycle (also very applicable to the physical commodities space).

As for mining being cheaper in some locations, of course, over time, mining gravitates to its most efficient location. That arbitrage is an obvious and natural effect of capitalism.

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GymnJuice

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11310 on: October 16, 2024, 09:18:17 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-10-16/italy-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-to-42-from-26-m2brojod

Quote
Italy plans to raise the capital gains tax on Bitcoin to 42% from 26%, part of efforts to finance expensive election promises while cutting the fiscal deficit.

Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s cabinet made the move given the “phenomenon is spreading,” Deputy Finance Minister Maurizio Leo said during a conference call on Wednesday in reference to Bitcoin.

Earlier efforts by other countries to tax crypto trading haven’t always yielded much for state coffers. India imposed onerous digital-asset levies two years ago, only to see trading volumes shrivel up as local investors switched to offshore platforms to get around the taxes.

Italy’s announcement comes as the European Union is preparing to fully implement the bloc’s sweeping crypto regulations, a package known as MiCA, at the end of this year. It didn’t stop an advance in Bitcoin, which traded 1.8% higher as of 12 p.m. in London on Wednesday. The biggest token has jumped 17% in the past month.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11311 on: October 16, 2024, 01:52:43 PM »
Ethereum is dead with the creation of a new layer 2 every 15 days. Impossible to reform, much too expensive, the Ethereum token is no longer useful.
Only Solana is progressing with revolutionary improvements and an unstoppable roadmap and Kaspa which will be the revolution of the months to come.
Solana will be the king of web 3.
Kaspa (PoW) will become not digital gold but digital silver which will serve as currency while bitcoin will remain the store of value.
$

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11312 on: October 16, 2024, 06:41:53 PM »
Only Solana is progressing with revolutionary improvements and an unstoppable roadmap and Kaspa which will be the revolution of the months to come.
Solana will be the king of web 3.
Kaspa (PoW) will become not digital gold but digital silver which will serve as currency while bitcoin will remain the store of value.
Solana has a high inflation of 6-7% and it is centralized. L2s / Network Extensions are also being created for it.

Snowden labels Solana a hub for memecoins and scams

-Snowden called Solana a centralized chain for meme coins and scams.
-The community was divided on Solana’s decentralization status.

Former NSA intelligence contractor and whistleblower Edward Snowden’s comment sparked the discussion.

His address was at the recently concluded Token2049 conference in Singapore. Snowden said Solana has centralized everything to ensure efficiency, but it is only full of meme coins and scams.

“But nobody is using it, except for memecoins and scams. Because if anybody puts anything significant on it, then the states begin moving towards it.”

Snowden added,

‘It (Solana) will be a system with levers that people can simply take from you. You’ve to think for adversarial case, as opposed to the convenient, easy, early case.”

Some top Ethereum community insiders agreed that Solana is ‘centralized.’ In particular, Ryan Berkmans said Snowden’s remark was ‘mostly true,’ citing the network’s validator client and the high cost of running the validator node.

“Fact check: Mostly True, SOL prefers 10GBit/s upload. <1% has this. It’s a data center chain. Sol has 1 full client, no spec. It’s more of an app than a protocol. Validators pay lots to vote. In ~2.5yr, ~$1.2M stake to break even. Centralized!”

Solana’s co-founder, Anatoly Yakovenko, echoed the same stance but noted that there were only two clients.

“Firedancer is running on mainnet! Just not voting or building blocks yet by choice. But fully validating all the state transitions. There are now officially two clients.”

However, David Hoffman of Bankless disagreed with Yakovenko, citing the founder’s recent statement that Agave would be a backup to Firedancer, not a multi-client set-up.

“It was said that Firedancer was intended to be the main client, with the old client as a secondary fallback client. Not exactly the same as a robust multi-client network.”

https://ambcrypto.com/snowden-labels-solana-a-hub-for-memecoins-and-scams-heres-why/

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11313 on: October 16, 2024, 06:58:34 PM »
Only Solana is progressing with revolutionary improvements and an unstoppable roadmap and Kaspa which will be the revolution of the months to come.
Solana will be the king of web 3.
Kaspa (PoW) will become not digital gold but digital silver which will serve as currency while bitcoin will remain the store of value.
lmao! ETH is not dead. We've heard this before. But thanks for the FUD! There's a lot of developments in the Ethereum ecosystem and the number of Ethereum developers dwarf all other chains. A few ETH L2s have more developers than Solana. The ETH L2 Base has 2.48 times more developers than Bitcoin. There are 2,788 full-time Ethereum developers compared with 664 Solana and 358 Bitcoin developers. Ethereum and Base have a combined total of 12,856 developers!

https://www.developerreport.com/

The total value staked is approaching 35 million ETH. ETH staking has been steadily increasing since 2021.
https://cryptoquant.com/asset/eth/chart/eth2/total-value-staked?window=DAY&ema=0&priceScale=log&metricScale=linear&chartStyle=line

Sony recently announced plans to launch an ETH L2 - Soneium.

https://www.ccn.com/news/technology/sonys-minato-testnet-success-offers-preview-of-soneiums-real-world-potential/

Sony’s Minato Testnet Success Offers Preview of Soneium’s Real-World Potential

Sony Block Solutions Labs’ (Sony BSL) Soneium Minato public testnet has seen immense success with over one million accounts created since its launch on Aug, 26.

The success gives an insight into the future real-world potential of the layer-2 Soneium blockchain, developed by Sony subsidiary Singapore-based Startale Labs.

Let's talk about the numbers of @soneium Minato.
1) Around 1M accounts have been created.
2) Around 250K smart contracts have been deployed.
3) More than 40 projects have been chosen at Soneium Spark from 1780 applications and are preparing for their launch.
In 1.5 months!

Ethereum Name Service integrated with PayPal, Venmo for crypto transfers

Venmo and PayPal users will now be able to transfer cryptocurrency using Ethereum Name Service (ENS) names. ENS Labs disclosed the integration on Sept. 10, which is expected to reach more than 270 million users in the United States.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/ethereum-name-service-integrated-with-paypal-venmo-for-crypto-transfers/ar-AA1ql83H

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11314 on: October 23, 2024, 09:35:48 AM »
Eth just hit another 3 year record low to BTC, marking another low point in the continuation of a trend that started mid 2021.

We may get to around .03 Btc to one Eth over the next year, after things may settle a bit, before the longer term downward trend continues.

No one here cannot say they were not warned...

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11315 on: October 23, 2024, 10:23:50 AM »
Ethereum is the most centralized blockchain in the game because it only relies on Vitalik being alive.
Hundreds of layers 2 without interest with an Ethereum token that has become useless.

Solana will overtake it and will eventually overtake Bitcoin which will be capped once held by all the institutions who will no longer sell like a gold reserve.

Kaspa (PoW) is the ultimate revolution and will be the world's digital money for all money transfers, in the top 30 without yet being listed on DEXs and without smart contracts under construction.
$

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11316 on: October 23, 2024, 10:26:49 AM »
Eth just hit another 3 year record low to BTC, marking another low point in the continuation of a trend that started mid 2021.

We may get to around .03 Btc to one Eth over the next year, after things may settle a bit, before the longer term downward trend continues.

No one here cannot say they were not warned...
I posted this less than 4 weeks ago. Hold on to your panties and congrats!  ;D
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

The ETH / BTC ratio might worsen for a few more weeks. I anticipate that you'll be posting about it. I personally think the ETH / BTC ratio will eventually improve in the favor of ETH, as its done before. But time will tell - we'll see what happens. I won't be posting about this until / if we see a clear reversal trend.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11317 on: October 23, 2024, 10:42:14 AM »
Ethereum is the most centralized blockchain in the game because it only relies on Vitalik being alive.
Hundreds of layers 2 without interest with an Ethereum token that has become useless.

Solana will overtake it and will eventually overtake Bitcoin which will be capped once held by all the institutions who will no longer sell like a gold reserve.

Kaspa (PoW) is the ultimate revolution and will be the world's digital money for all money transfers, in the top 30 without yet being listed on DEXs and without smart contracts under construction.
What you posted is laughable. Solana is way more centralized than Ethereum. I would argue Bitcoin is also more centralized than Ethereum.

The ETH Foundation holds a smaller percentage of Ethereum (0.22%) than Saylor's MicroStrategy holds of Bitcoin (1.275% and counting).

MicroStrategy percentage of Bitcoin is almost 6x the Ethereum Foundation's percentage of Ethereum. Same for Vitalik.

Here's their wallet:
https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae

Buterin is a voice for Ethereum the same way Saylor is a voice for Bitcoin, and Anatoly Yakovenko a Solana attraction. If these guys kick the bucket the value of all three will tumble. But they will survive.

Ethereum dominates in the number of full-time and total developers.

https://www.developerreport.com/

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11318 on: October 23, 2024, 10:43:08 AM »
Ethereum is the most centralized blockchain in the game because it only relies on Vitalik being alive.
Hundreds of layers 2 without interest with an Ethereum token that has become useless.

Solana will overtake it and will eventually overtake Bitcoin which will be capped once held by all the institutions who will no longer sell like a gold reserve.

Kaspa (PoW) is the ultimate revolution and will be the world's digital money for all money transfers, in the top 30 without yet being listed on DEXs and without smart contracts under construction.

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11319 on: October 23, 2024, 05:07:54 PM »
Eth just hit another 3 year record low to BTC, marking another low point in the continuation of a trend that started mid 2021.

We may get to around .03 Btc to one Eth over the next year, after things may settle a bit, before the longer term downward trend continues.

No one here cannot say they were not warned...

What if someone uses the same timeframe of measure as you? like Obsidian?

Obsidian will just say you only need to HoDL and it’ll go up and win in the end.

ETH and SOL are fucked because of duplicate copies of token scams. There’s like 6 of everything now and it’s where the scamming is. Those 2 will be hit hardest by incoming regulations as once you remove the ‘lottery’ incentive you realise you will be better off in BTC.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11320 on: October 24, 2024, 01:16:22 AM »
Obsidian - you are one of the smartest guys here, but your intelligence (or self-belief / stubbornness?) may be your downfall.

Take a step back, and see the forest instead of the trees.

The big picture here is that BTC has won the "store of value / defence against fiat devaluation" narrative hands down. There is no crypto "alt" to this which even comes close.

That leaves an infinite number of "alts", which almost no-one is buying for any fundamental technical attributes (even if they think they are), and indeed only are buying because of the latest hype as being a "token" which will go up in value (at least for a short period of time). The problem with that is of course that such alts are infinite, and new ones always rise faster than existing ones, for a limited period of time, whereas total wealth is finite. Long term, shitcoinery cannot make you money unless time buy and sells (and the vast majority of "investors" eventually realize they cannot reliably do this).

It is heartbreaking to see you do this to yourself, and there is nothing sadder than seeing an investor hold on to a big position (once profitable) only to not accept reality and to keep holding as it declines, because "its already fallen so much already so I can't sell now". With a stock, if you really know what you are doing and if you can truly calculate fundamental value, its fine to stay invested even if market cap falls. However, with a "crypto token", for almost all such tokens a fundamental value is virtually impossible to accurately calculate, so if you are going to invest at all, it needs to be based on narrative, hype, and correct timing. And unfortunately Eth is on the declining side of that. Why not just take 50% of your Eth and put it into BTC, even just DCAing into BTC until you reach 50%? (Which might you might actually reach faster than you think if the current tend continues?

This thread at the very outset, and all the way through, emphasized the importance of Getbiggers being united on BTC. United we thrive, diluted (with shitcoins), only the shitcoin scammers thrive...


Flexacon

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11321 on: October 24, 2024, 02:49:33 AM »
A few quick comments.

Re MSTR, remember MayDay's predictions of doom and gloom when I mentioned that MSTR was on of my biggest stock buys during the initial covid sell-off where I loaded up on stocks? That one ended with "well time will tell". And indeed, time has told...

As to how MSTR correlates to BTC, due to its borrowings, it is a leveraged play on BTC, and so has more on the upside (and on the downside potentially). Also, due to its borrowings, it has bond-like features, so again its price can be amplified on top of any marco news which impacts interest rate expectations.

As for ambitions of a Bitcoin bank, yes, that also drove price - and note, its not a "Doge", or "Dog Wif Hat", or "Etherium" bank, Its Bitcoin! And Bitcoin only.

Correct. It's now the turn of the Ai meme meta




obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11322 on: October 24, 2024, 12:40:13 PM »
Obsidian - you are one of the smartest guys here, but your intelligence (or self-belief / stubbornness?) may be your downfall.

Take a step back, and see the forest instead of the trees.

The big picture here is that BTC has won the "store of value / defence against fiat devaluation" narrative hands down. There is no crypto "alt" to this which even comes close.

That leaves an infinite number of "alts", which almost no-one is buying for any fundamental technical attributes (even if they think they are), and indeed only are buying because of the latest hype as being a "token" which will go up in value (at least for a short period of time). The problem with that is of course that such alts are infinite, and new ones always rise faster than existing ones, for a limited period of time, whereas total wealth is finite. Long term, shitcoinery cannot make you money unless time buy and sells (and the vast majority of "investors" eventually realize they cannot reliably do this).

It is heartbreaking to see you do this to yourself, and there is nothing sadder than seeing an investor hold on to a big position (once profitable) only to not accept reality and to keep holding as it declines, because "its already fallen so much already so I can't sell now". With a stock, if you really know what you are doing and if you can truly calculate fundamental value, its fine to stay invested even if market cap falls. However, with a "crypto token", for almost all such tokens a fundamental value is virtually impossible to accurately calculate, so if you are going to invest at all, it needs to be based on narrative, hype, and correct timing. And unfortunately Eth is on the declining side of that. Why not just take 50% of your Eth and put it into BTC, even just DCAing into BTC until you reach 50%? (Which might you might actually reach faster than you think if the current tend continues?

This thread at the very outset, and all the way through, emphasized the importance of Getbiggers being united on BTC. United we thrive, diluted (with shitcoins), only the shitcoin scammers thrive...
I appreciate your concern - thanks!

Like Saylor, I am prepared to hold Ethereum down to zero, as I am with any crypto I have. Earlier in the year, ETH was up to $4,000. Had you taken a snapshot then things would look a lot different. ETH would be up 60% from where it is now. It is pointless to look at such short time frames.

Markets can be emotional and fickle. ETH right now is a superior product to what it was 6 months ago, yet the price is down 37.5% from March. Interesting how $2,500 to $4,000 is a 60% increase, but $4,000 to $2,500 is a 37.5% decrease. ETH is now superior because it has regulatory clarity with the Spot ETFs, fees are lower after the Dencun upgrade, and the inflation is still lower than Bitcoin. Numerous L2 projects have been announced by companies like Sony, BlackRock, etc. On paper the price should be higher than it was in March. But that's not how it always work.

I'll admit I expected the ETH price to pump more by now after the spot approvals. The spot approvals came in the summer and it seems that was the wrong time for them to be released. Bearish sentiment for the entire space became prevalent. But I do think in the long run the ETH ETF inflows will pickup. And ETH has shown us before that it can easily gain 20% in 1 day.  ETH Spot inflows have been positive for a few sessions this month. Still being held back by the Grayscale outflows though.

If you look at late 2021, Bitcoin crashed down to $46K while ETH sat around $4K. Investors back then would have been bearish on BTC and bullish on ETH. You lived through that. Go look at the charts!

ETH will bounce back. I am sure of it. And I'll happily ride it down to zero if needed.  ;D

You're trying in vain to get me to capitulate to Bitcoin. If I was you I would start to consider how the Bitcoin project will play out 12-24 years from now because it is uncertain how BTC will be secured. Unless that is too long-term for you and you plan to cash out of BTC in the next few years.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11323 on: October 24, 2024, 04:20:50 PM »
While all the ETH FUD is making the rounds...

https://blockworks.co/news/kraken-ethereum-layer-2-superchain

Kraken unveils new Ethereum L2 built on Optimism’s Superchain

Binance has BNB Chain, Coinbase has Base, OKX has the X Layer and now Kraken has Ink.

Kraken announced today its plans to launch its own Ethereum layer-2 network, Ink, expected to go live on mainnet in early 2025.

Ink uses Optimism’s OP Stack, and will be part of Optimism’s constellation of blockchains, dubbed the Superchain.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11324 on: October 24, 2024, 04:29:42 PM »
What if someone uses the same timeframe of measure as you? like Obsidian?

Obsidian will just say you only need to HoDL and it’ll go up and win in the end.

ETH and SOL are fucked because of duplicate copies of token scams. There’s like 6 of everything now and it’s where the scamming is. Those 2 will be hit hardest by incoming regulations as once you remove the ‘lottery’ incentive you realise you will be better off in BTC.
BTC crashed from $1,000 in 2014 down to $200 in 2015. Then again from $18K+ in 2017 down to $3,200 in late 2018. We saw this again when it crashed from $65k+ in 2021 down to $16k in late 2022.

Your meme would be valid for those that entered at the ATH and held it down to the bottom.

But what about the OG guys that got BTC for $1 and held the bags all the way to present and never sold. They came out on top. But some would have argued that they were retarded. A retard that spent $20,000 on BTC @ $1 would now have a bag worth well over $1 billion. People were mining 50 BTC per day on laptops. There were some that mined 20,000 BTC and paid less than $1 per BTC in electrical bills. Those were the early adopters.

How many cryptos have gone to zero? Almost none have gone that low.  ;D