Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1768426 times)

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11550 on: November 28, 2024, 06:43:48 PM »
Nice, but how did you pay off the money you borrowed against BTC? Did you have to sell some BTC to pay off the loan? With ETH staking you can sell your staking yields to pay off loans and your principle ETH holdings remain untouched.

Use btc as collateral, next year when loan is due  I just refinance using less collateral. Btc is up 30% since loan.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11551 on: November 29, 2024, 05:06:58 AM »
Just a little factoid ... this thread stated on 18 June 2015. At that time BTC was $225 per coin.

Today its, $97,000 per coin.

That is a an increase of 43,011% over that time period.

This is what happens when you get exponential demand and adoption of an asset which is truly limited in supply.


grubbiergoose

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11552 on: November 29, 2024, 12:55:29 PM »
Use btc as collateral, next year when loan is due  I just refinance using less collateral. Btc is up 30% since loan.

What place did you use for the loan? A lot of people got fucked from celsius using their platform.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11553 on: November 29, 2024, 01:29:31 PM »
Use btc as collateral, next year when loan is due  I just refinance using less collateral. Btc is up 30% since loan.
What are the refinance fees? Which entity is giving the loan and taking your BTC as collateral? What if they go up in smoke like FTX / Celsius?

We will likely have another bear market. When the BTC value declines you might be forced to pay off the loan. How will you pay it off? By selling BTC?

I fail to see how anyone can use BTC as collateral to get a loan and not end up selling BTC to pay off the loan. You won't be able to keep refinancing until you don't have to offer any BTC as collateral.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11554 on: November 30, 2024, 01:55:29 AM »
What are the refinance fees? Which entity is giving the loan and taking your BTC as collateral? What if they go up in smoke like FTX / Celsius?

We will likely have another bear market. When the BTC value declines you might be forced to pay off the loan. How will you pay it off? By selling BTC?

I fail to see how anyone can use BTC as collateral to get a loan and not end up selling BTC to pay off the loan. You won't be able to keep refinancing until you don't have to offer any BTC as collateral.

You have touched on a few things here. First is the risk of the custodian of the BTC as security, either going bankrupt, or committing theft of the coin via fraud. We of course all know NYKNYC, but if you are trusting a 3rd party to hold your coin as security, you had better go with a regulated financial institution, and/or hope that their assets are segregated, such that in the event they do collapse, your BTC does not form part of the assets against which creditors have a claim. So, read the lending T&Cs, which few people do. In the event of a lender collapse or fraud, you of course would still have the money they lent you, but usually that would be less than the value of the BTC iit is secured against. A safer way is to do this via smart contract, where the loan is governed entirely by pre-defined variables.

The second point you make really simply relates to volatility. Ie, how can we be sure that the value of the BTC does not drop to a level such that the lender makes a call on the security due to the agreed upon max loan to equity ratio being reached. And this is really about risk management. So, just like with a house, secured by a loan - we know that over time the nominal value of the house will increase beyond the nominal amount borrowed. So, lets say house is 1m, and you borrow 500K (paying interest only). Year 2, house is with 1.1m, year, 1.2m, year 3 drops to 950K, year 4to  900K, 5, 1m, 6, 1.2m, 7, 1.4m, 8 1,7m, 9 2m, etc. In other words, we know the nominal value of asset will go up over time, but we know there is a degree of volatility. So the key is to borrow only as much as the max vol you can tolerate (and then also to have extra BTC available in case you really are asked to top up the loan ratio). So, in other words, say you forecast that at any point, BTC could drop a max amount of 50% in value (Eg now, from 100K to 50K), the most you would ever borrow against that BTC to ensure you are never wiped out is 50K per coin.

Griffith

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11555 on: December 01, 2024, 06:26:19 AM »
Ethereum ETFs See Record $333M Inflows, Outpacing Bitcoin Funds as Catch-Up Trade Gains Momentum

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2024/12/01/ethereum-etfs-see-record-333-m-inflows-outpacing-bitcoin-funds-as-catch-up-trade-gains-momentum

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11556 on: December 01, 2024, 01:13:49 PM »
What place did you use for the loan? A lot of people got fucked from celsius using their platform.

ledn

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11557 on: December 01, 2024, 01:17:46 PM »
What are the refinance fees? Which entity is giving the loan and taking your BTC as collateral? What if they go up in smoke like FTX / Celsius?

We will likely have another bear market. When the BTC value declines you might be forced to pay off the loan. How will you pay it off? By selling BTC?

I fail to see how anyone can use BTC as collateral to get a loan and not end up selling BTC to pay off the loan. You won't be able to keep refinancing until you don't have to offer any BTC as collateral.

Most of my loans are done in  a bear market, I have over 400k in loans. I put in what I can afford to lose. Ledn outsurvived them all.

I have a loan coming up in that needs to be repaid 60k for 2.7 btc collateral. If I reborrow with another 2.7btc as collateral  that's 133k I get. Repay my existing loan and have 73k left over with same amouth or collateral.

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11558 on: December 03, 2024, 09:04:41 AM »
For those interested in alts, Uniswap and Filecoin are seeing continued surges in trading volume, which if you look at prior patterns, usually point to a surge in price coming in these tokens.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11559 on: December 03, 2024, 12:37:40 PM »
Most of my loans are done in  a bear market, I have over 400k in loans. I put in what I can afford to lose. Ledn outsurvived them all.

I have a loan coming up in that needs to be repaid 60k for 2.7 btc collateral. If I reborrow with another 2.7btc as collateral  that's 133k I get. Repay my existing loan and have 73k left over with same amouth or collateral.
Calculations based on $800,000 worth of BTC at $20,000 per BTC:

Initial Loan Details:
BTC Pledged: $800,000 ÷ $20,000 = 40 BTC
Loan-to-Value (LTV): 50%
Loan Amount: $800,000 × 50% = $400,000

Interest Calculation:
Assume an interest rate of 10% per year.

Annual interest = $400,000 × 10% = $40,000
Over 3 years, total interest paid = $40,000 × 3 = $120,000

After 3 Years:
BTC Price: Bitcoin is now worth $100,000.
BTC Collateral: You still hold 40 BTC (assuming no liquidation or additional collateral was needed).
Collateral Value: 40 BTC × $100,000 = $4,000,000.

In this example you're paying $120,000 in interest. That's 1.2 BTC @ $100,000 / BTC.

I still fail to see how you avoid forking over money to LEDN.

obsidian

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11560 on: December 03, 2024, 12:42:08 PM »
For those interested in alts, Uniswap and Filecoin are seeing continued surges in trading volume, which if you look at prior patterns, usually point to a surge in price coming in these tokens.
Doge, XRP, and ADA have done well in the past 30 days. My gains with those three are over $100,000 since Trump won—lol! Of course, these are unrealized gains. I will take some profits next year. I am not going to sit on the sidelines for another four years as I did in two previous cycles.

Your BTC gains must be close to $2 million!

Theoak*

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11561 on: December 03, 2024, 03:27:52 PM »
Calculations based on $800,000 worth of BTC at $20,000 per BTC:

Initial Loan Details:
BTC Pledged: $800,000 ÷ $20,000 = 40 BTC
Loan-to-Value (LTV): 50%
Loan Amount: $800,000 × 50% = $400,000

Interest Calculation:
Assume an interest rate of 10% per year.

Annual interest = $400,000 × 10% = $40,000
Over 3 years, total interest paid = $40,000 × 3 = $120,000

After 3 Years:
BTC Price: Bitcoin is now worth $100,000.
BTC Collateral: You still hold 40 BTC (assuming no liquidation or additional collateral was needed).
Collateral Value: 40 BTC × $100,000 = $4,000,000.

In this example you're paying $120,000 in interest. That's 1.2 BTC @ $100,000 / BTC.

I still fail to see how you avoid forking over money to LEDN.

Cheers thanks for the math, I'll let you know how  it goes in another 4 years when I've yet to sell a btc and continue paying interest.

Mayday

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11562 on: December 03, 2024, 05:34:42 PM »
[quote author=obsidian link=topic=574601.msg10326314#msg10326314 date=1733258260

I still fail to see how you avoid forking over money to LEDN.




What he is doing is fine. There is no issue with the numbers as he said he takes the loan during the bear market and therefore gives him headroom to absorb interest (depending on the contract he can not make payments and instead let interest eat into the capital) and downward price action.

The potential flaw you are looking for is:

What The masses don’t understand about using collateral loans is they are deferred future tax events. The moment liquidation, sale, transfer occurs, you trigger those deferred tax events. Mongs think the loan is debt when it’s really deferred future capital gains based on profit which is taxable.

Make sense?


gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11563 on: December 04, 2024, 12:27:56 PM »
1.3% to go on BTC to hit the 100K barrier!
Uniswap and Filecoin are spiking. Eth also nicely up.

Here's why.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/04/trump-plans-to-nominate-paul-atkins-as-sec-chair.html


SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11564 on: December 04, 2024, 06:54:43 PM »
I already said Saylor was a legend so far but it was about this peak and next bear. He survived the bear, awesome! He has since doubled down, I hope he wins because it’d be the most awesome statue worthy move.

Does no one realise I bought the bottom, sold the 1st top, bought the 2nd bottom and are in position ??? I said I would t give all movements because I only copped flack for it 😂

When we go over 100k this year like 99% guaranteed, we can agree I got this cycle horrifically wrong. I said 76k, we are at 76k and I said a peak in October is seasonal….  Price hasn’t destroyed my model yet, go above 100k this year and it will be. Unless Saylor does something really dumb, over 100k this year he likely is one of the greatest players of all time.

We could say over 100k this year and I delete my account. Under 100k this year and delete yours?

 Popcorn ready for Mayday to acknowledge he got it horrifically wrong and he is now deleting his account. 


Welcome to 100k a bitcoin!!!!

Inside you are two wolves and both are wrong!

loco

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11565 on: December 04, 2024, 07:13:12 PM »

Mayday

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SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11567 on: December 04, 2024, 07:27:25 PM »

SouJerz

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11568 on: December 04, 2024, 07:29:21 PM »

Campeon Del Mundo

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11569 on: December 04, 2024, 07:34:26 PM »
   Today is a day I will never forget...  I've believed in crypto since 2019 ...

Andy Griffin

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11570 on: December 04, 2024, 08:30:46 PM »
$100K, just as my charts predicted.
~

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11571 on: December 04, 2024, 09:22:16 PM »
$100,000.00!

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11572 on: December 04, 2024, 09:36:11 PM »
Hope all u guys got some. You will be able to retire and just chill and train if they ever get to 100k per coin.

Now a Legendary Bitcoin Quote...  ;D ;D ;D

gib

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11573 on: December 04, 2024, 10:40:24 PM »
Over the next few weeks, I think we can look back and revisit some of the prior posts in this thread, giving those who were correct a moment to gloat, and to shame those who made fools of themselves and remind them that incorrect statement on GetBig do have reputational ramifications...

I'll get started..., and Mr Anabolic, your time for a roasting has well and truly arrived, so be forewarned, you will be a subject of numerous pages of ridicule. If you are out there, please fman up, and now finally admit how wrong you were...

Your posts here have demonstrated a total ignorance for real value, market cycles and asset bubbles.


 ;D ;D ;D

BigRo

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Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #11574 on: December 04, 2024, 11:04:44 PM »
How much money have you actually withdrawn as cash?

Going by your avatar it seems your a believer in Satan.