Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[SF1900]

when you have time to create 4 gimmicks.. on forums.. tard is the last word you can say about anyone out there,,

be a man and post under 1 user name,,

gh15 approved

Pipe down.

[FitnessFrenzy]

[ratherbebig]

tai lopez? he's a fraud

[SOMEPARTS]

Not clicking on that video. Looks at those goofs.

[Mayday]

This rise is for the futures trading that started today. It's already pulling back...... just like it did last time a bank announced futures trading......


Taking into account Bitcoin is 40% held by the early investors who paid bugger all, it leaves 60% on a sliding upwards scale who paid a max 18k or whatever to get in.

This market cap of $400B or so is probably backed by $100B true investment.

45% Japan.
35% US
5% Korea
15% for the rest of the world.

To get BTC to $40k probably need $170B of real money. That will take time.

[DooM_]

..some people are going to lose everything with this ,  they gambled their homes and life savings . . . 40 % have no risk , they got it for nothing , eventually they will want to cash out . . .

[SOMEPARTS]

That's why it is so important for new dumb money to get in and get them to "HODL". They chant that on forums and from the rooftops, haha. There are two sides to every trade, winner and loser.

[Mayday]

According to JP Morgan analysis:

""The net flow into cryptocurrencies is very much a function of coin creation which is controlled by computer algorithms and in the case of bitcoin is diminishing over time. Figure 6 shows the net amount of money invested every year since 2009. The cumulative amount has totaled around $6bn since 2009, well below the current market cap of $300bn."

So if I understand correctly, everyone holding bitcoin think they have a total of $300 billion in wealth between them, but if they all tried to sell to get that money out only $6 billion is able to be taken out.

Correct.

That is the bubble effect. When it pops you go much closer to the actual investment value.

I don't believe JPM analysis or it's taken from a period well before October and misses the recent inflows of cash.

$6B = $358/coin
$400B market cap is 66 times multiple of actual investment.

So lets consider a sane $100B flows into the market and becomes $6.6T ontop of the existing $400B and you have a $7T size market cap with a bitcoin price of $1.18M.

That's an example of how quickly bubbles can get out of control.

No fucking way with the Govt allow that shit to happen. The Govt doesn't want to see prices spiralling out of control because they step in and shut it down before average joe gets burned alive. Believe it or not, they do care about that stuff.


Just take solice knowing all these big names gloating about millions and millions still have their coins stuck in the system. They hype this so bad because they need those billions to cash out. Without hyping cryptos more they can't GTFO.....

[Mayday]

I see the issue with that article now and it's the timing of the chart vs when they used it in the article. Typical zerohedge.........

Looking over the JPM and other data from 2013 to today 2017 and using a $19k price i come to a ballpark $20.665B of real money invested in bitcoin. I have a correlation between price and retained capital investment which makes it look pretty accurate (that scares me seeing how low it is).

So bitcoin in terms of real money has a rough price of US$1,237/coin which is if everybody pulled out and got an even share.


If you see trade volume go to $26B/day it has legs to get to $40k.
If you see trade volume drop towards <$10B/day GTFO as quick as you can.

My gut tells me 2 things:
If this is going to crash badly then it will happen real soon.
If it doesn't crash soon then it has scope to reach mental prices - $100k+ followed by a crash.....

[Griffith]

According to JP Morgan analysis:

""The net flow into cryptocurrencies is very much a function of coin creation which is controlled by computer algorithms and in the case of bitcoin is diminishing over time. Figure 6 shows the net amount of money invested every year since 2009. The cumulative amount has totaled around $6bn since 2009, well below the current market cap of $300bn."



So if I understand correctly, everyone holding bitcoin think they have a total of $300 billion in wealth between them, but if they all tried to sell to get that money out only $6 billion is able to be taken out.

Yes, this is what I mentioned before, whether there would actually be enough funds available to pay out the amounts if there is a big sell-off.

And that's excluding the issue of 4 transactions per second which blockchain can handle at most and the reliability of exchanges online systems due to a sudden surge in high volume.

[gib]

According to JP Morgan analysis:

""The net flow into cryptocurrencies is very much a function of coin creation which is controlled by computer algorithms and in the case of bitcoin is diminishing over time. Figure 6 shows the net amount of money invested every year since 2009. The cumulative amount has totaled around $6bn since 2009, well below the current market cap of $300bn."



For every single asset that has risen in value the amount of cash invested is less than current market cap. This is common sense and not unique to bitcoin.

So if I understand correctly, everyone holding bitcoin think they have a total of $300 billion in wealth between them, but if they all tried to sell to get that money out only $6 billion is able to be taken out.

You do realise that the total amount invested is less than the total market cap of any asset that has risen in value, right? Not at all unique to bitcoin.

[gib]

That's why it is so important for new dumb money to get in and get them to "HODL". They chant that on forums and from the rooftops, haha. There are two sides to every trade, winner and loser.

The only “losers” so far with bitcoin so far are either those who didn’t buy, or those who sold too early. And that is a fact.

[gib]

No fucking way with the Govt allow that shit to happen. The Govt doesn't want to see prices spiralling out of control because they step in and shut it down before average joe gets burned alive. Believe it or not, they do care about that stuff.

Oh really? And which “government” would that be? The government of Papua Nugunie? Finland? Brazil? New Zealand? Zimbabwe? Canada?

Do you realise how many “governments” actually exist? And do you realise that no government can beat bitcoin? Bitcoin is a global decentralised currency. No government can stop bitcoin. The only thing that could stop bitcoin is a collective decision to do so by those who have moved into bitcoin as a store of value. And right now, whist theoretically possible, this seems very unlikely.

[gh15]

ww3.. can

and any hacking team that is worth its name can.. but since hacking teams created bitcoin lol it is good to go,,

the only 2 things--

1,, its not anonymous as you think it is.. it is cashless society in the making.. everything about you known if someone really want to know something about you it is deep state tool bitcoin.. who says deep state doesn't give freedom it sure gives oh yes oh yes lol

2,, never put your all eggs in one basket.. because eventhough you indeed live in virtual reality.. and you are a universe within a multiverse and you are finding it faster than i can say jacktquila.. with help along the 20th century.. but you sure starting to connect the dots.. eventhough you live in virual reality.. your! reality as of 2017 is that you cant trust  the system to always be on.. not yet.. down the road when the walls are computerized.. yesyes your house walls.. when it all comes from the electric company.. thennnnnn you can feel more relaxed if you choose the bitcoin way.. but until then you are like a leaf in the wind..


gh15 approved
lion of Judah

[El Diablo Blanco]

Warning gib.  I was involved in a class action suit against someone similar to you who promoted a stock in a pump and dump scam. They guy had to pay back more than he made.  Your cheerleading can get you in deep shit if this thing tanks and people can point fingers at you. There are 50 pages of you promoting this and claiming a million dollar per coin valuation.  Best you stop promoting and just stick with discussing gains. Stop predicting future process.

[Parker]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/12/18/africa/inside-life-cryptocurrency-miner-kenya-africa/index.html

[TheGrinch]

Warning gib.  I was involved in a class action suit against someone similar to you who promoted a stock in a pump and dump scam. They guy had to pay back more than he made.  Your cheerleading can get you in deep shit if this thing tanks and people can point fingers at you. There are 50 pages of you promoting this and claiming a million dollar per coin valuation.  Best you stop promoting and just stick with discussing gains. Stop predicting future process.

Bingo.... well said.... and most realize it way too late which is why message boards/forums don't want to be held accountable and any financial forum deletes these threads immediately.

[Soul Crusher]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/12/18/africa/inside-life-cryptocurrency-miner-kenya-africa/index.html

Kenya?   Somehow I knew obama was behind this.

[ratherbebig]

now that's someone actually making money outta bitcoins! 800 dollars by kenyan standards, i suppose isnt a bad income and he's not taking any risks.

these africans are smarter than whites, clearly genetic!

[el numero uno]

but whenever the price drops he disappears . . .

I have the feeling gib is going to delete his account after all of this speculation is over.

[gib]

ww3.. can

and any hacking team that is worth its name can.. but since hacking teams created bitcoin lol it is good to go,,

the only 2 things--

1,, its not anonymous as you think it is.. it is cashless society in the making.. everything about you known if someone really want to know something about you it is deep state tool bitcoin.. who says deep state doesn't give freedom it sure gives oh yes oh yes lol

2,, never put your all eggs in one basket.. because eventhough you indeed live in virtual reality.. and you are a universe within a multiverse and you are finding it faster than i can say jacktquila.. with help along the 20th century.. but you sure starting to connect the dots.. eventhough you live in virual reality.. your! reality as of 2017 is that you cant trust  the system to always be on.. not yet.. down the road when the walls are computerized.. yesyes your house walls.. when it all comes from the electric company.. thennnnnn you can feel more relaxed if you choose the bitcoin way.. but until then you are like a leaf in the wind..


gh15 approved
lion of Judah

Agree with the comment about not putting all ones eggs in one basket. The rest has already been discussed - if we have WWW 3 then we all have a lot more to worry about than bitcoins. Although having said that, bitcoins would actually be a very viable way to transport and store wealth as banks and stocks collapse let alone if trying to access wealth from a country one has escaped to. Which is one of the reasons both north and South Koreans are moving into bitcoins. (Read earlier discussions on this topic).

[gib]

Right now the margin requirement for shorting is very high = 50%.  When that comes down, then you'll start to see some action.  Yes, there will eventually be a massive sell-off and the "buy the dip" crowd will not have any money or confidence left to buy.  Sell orders will overwhelm the exchanges and those who are heavily invested will not be able to sell.  After the carnage is over, some former bitcoin millionaires (now broke) will commit suicide.

In the interests of a good discussion I need to correct this comment slightly.

CME Group has a margin requirement of 35% for bitcoin futures. And Cboe has 40%. But the main point is correct- these are high margins. (Usual might be 5%, for example for an S&P futures contract).

The most important point though, is that futures trading is a further step toward legitimizing btc, and in theory should help reduce volatility over time.

[Mayday]

Oh really? And which “government” would that be? The government of Papua Nugunie? Finland? Brazil? New Zealand? Zimbabwe? Canada?

Do you realise how many “governments” actually exist? And do you realise that no government can beat bitcoin? Bitcoin is a global decentralised currency. No government can stop bitcoin. The only thing that could stop bitcoin is a collective decision to do so by those who have moved into bitcoin as a store of value. And right now, whist theoretically possible, this seems very unlikely.

You are brainwashed dude. It's not a currency or money until  there is a large enough belief system that it's accepted and traded amongst the majority.

Food is more widely accepted globally as a currency/money yet i'm not walking around trying to pump people up about buying petrol with apples.....The gamble on cryptos is on a promise it will one day become money...... it's a promise, not a fact. Get off the websites and ask real world people if they have BTC and they'll say what's that.

Look at the page before and BTC might be around $20B real money floating a $400B price tag.  You want to know why it crashed 50% a while back? There is your answer. Want to know why it gets 15% pullbacks within hours? There is your answer. Want to know why 40% are held by 1,000 people who can't cash out? There is your answer.

It's volatile because the ratio of price/market cap to actual investment is to high.
2014 ratio of 3.11
2015 ratio of 3.26
2016 ratio of 2.30
2017 ratio of 0.91 for the September jump.
2017 ratio of 0.85 for the October jump. Almost 4x jump in gap between investment and market price than in 2015! That's an incredibly concerning metric.
November and December surged WAY harder so you would want to hope that money stayed in......

Any Govt can shut it down or regulate it and then BAM it all stops. China halted. Korea halted but they opened again after making trading changes and now it's getting hacked......

$20B is fuck all vs the hundreds of trillions in the banking sector meaning bitcoin has zero power. There is legitimate concern by banks for what cryptos can do but today things like Paypal are a larger threat to banks.

[gib]

You are brainwashed dude. It's not a currency or money until  there is a large enough belief system that it's accepted and traded amongst the majority.

Food is more widely accepted globally as a currency/money yet i'm not walking around trying to pump people up about buying petrol with apples.....The gamble on cryptos is on a promise it will one day become money...... it's a promise, not a fact. Get off the websites and ask real world people if they have BTC and they'll say what's that.

Look at the page before and BTC might be around $20B real money floating a $400B price tag.  You want to know why it crashed 50% a while back? There is your answer. Want to know why it gets 15% pullbacks within hours? There is your answer. Want to know why 40% are held by 1,000 people who can't cash out? There is your answer.

It's volatile because the ratio of price/market cap to actual investment is to high.
2014 ratio of 3.11
2015 ratio of 3.26
2016 ratio of 2.30
2017 ratio of 0.91 for the September jump.
2017 ratio of 0.85 for the October jump. Almost 4x jump in gap between investment and market price than in 2015! That's an incredibly concerning metric.
November and December surged WAY harder so you would want to hope that money stayed in......

Any Govt can shut it down or regulate it and then BAM it all stops. China halted. Korea halted but they opened again after making trading changes and now it's getting hacked......

$20B is fuck all vs the hundreds of trillions in the banking sector meaning bitcoin has zero power. There is legitimate concern by banks for what cryptos can do but today things like Paypal are a larger threat to banks.

A few quick comments. China did not “halt bitcoins”. Nor did Korea. What they did was ban and/or regulate exchanges. The bitcoins themselves continue to exist. And peer to peer trading cannot be stopped in any case (theoretically legal yes a country could make ownership “illegal” (indeed the US tried this once with gold), but practically it’s close to impossible). Which is of course why no country has banned peer to peer trading and further why increasingly trading is becoming regulated (hence legitimized) - see earlier discussions.

As for what can be a currency, the answer is anything people collectively choose to be and agree on. Can be marbles in a school yard. Gold among pirates. Bone carvings or feathers among native tribes. Pokémon cards etc.

The fact that food is more widely accepted as a currency by no means negates the fact that non-food items can also function as currencies. Again yes I would rather eat a banana than a lump of gold. That does not mean gold cannot function as a store of value.

Yes bitcoin has been volatile. Not one person here would disagree with you on that. So are many other assets, some more than others. Overall to date, buy and hold has served bitcoin investors very very well.

I already replied to the comment on an asset’s market cap cf amount invested in it. See earlier post above. Nothing unique to btc. Any asset that has risen in value inherently has this phenomenon.

[Griffith]

In the interests of a good discussion I need to correct this comment slightly.

CME Group has a margin requirement of 35% for bitcoin futures. And Cboe has 40%. But the main point is correct- these are high margins. (Usual might be 5%, for example for an S&P futures contract).

The most important point though, is that futures trading is a further step toward legitimizing btc, and in theory should help reduce volatility over time.

40 % of Bitcoins are owned by people who basically got them for nothing so where has the actual cash for these margins come from?

The majority of the transactions and purchases also still occur on online exchanges.