Author Topic: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!  (Read 1149933 times)

keanu

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2213
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3975 on: December 28, 2020, 04:41:14 AM »
That is a good point to make. We did learn.

Interest rates are at 0%. Consumer inflation is sub 2%. The Federal Reserve (and indeed central banks across the globe) increased the M1 40% in one year.......

Gold is up 23% since the pandemic.
The Dow Jones up 62% since the pandemic.
BTC 300%+ since the pandemic.

Yet people are acting like BTC is the devil?   

The debt system is maxed out. That's why you are seeing 40% in M1 which is generally 5% or so but there is little to no consumer inflation because QE is being belted into the stockmarket and other financial markets. 

The Dow Jones growing like a weed despite huge levels of unemployment......  but it's BTC is the devil.....

Covid 19 sure accelerated everything into a big spiral. The whole world is sinking to a big debt at the same time at different rates. Sure the stock market is booming. Under these conditions the money has to go somewhere. I have some of everything. 7 figures in stocks, real estate, and some BTC. Not much but some. The lack of regulation I am not a fan of. Blockchain technology is being mass adopted, and Wall street has jumped on BTC so the demand is there. It is the reserve crypto currency. For people that say BTC doesn't make sense, neither did drilling and polluting the hell out of workers and the environment for metals we assigned to be stores of value. The one thing I don't like about BTC and precious metals is the tendancy for both to go down when the markets go down and vice versa.

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32520
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3976 on: December 28, 2020, 08:57:41 AM »
Fully agree. Why more people don't see this or understand this amazes me.
It's not even close to the same thing.

TheGrinch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5029
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3977 on: December 28, 2020, 09:29:32 AM »
eth?

hex?

El Diablo Blanco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31841
  • Nom Nom Nom Nom
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3978 on: December 28, 2020, 09:45:58 AM »
There are a few key people holding onto a lot of bitcoin, the US gov is one, specifically the FBI who have seized a bunch.  Those jew twins and a few others.  They are eventually going to dump and run.  Once they do, bitcoin is going to crash quick and bad.

With that said.  Good for those who made some money on this.  It has been totally crazy.

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
  • .......
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3979 on: December 28, 2020, 09:52:13 AM »
It's not even close to the same thing.

They somehow fail to mention that a currency is backed by an entire national economy and all the factors of production, trade and commerce behind it. The value of a currency is not based on 'thin air' and is hardly 'monopoly money' as there is something tangible behind it giving it value.

A failed currency is usually reflective of a failed state, while a country with a relatively stable currency is reflective of good economic policies and other factors conducive to economic growth. The value is not based on 'nothing'.

And when comparing bitcoin to gold and precious metals, they also don't seem to mention that precious metals such as gold, platinum and palladium are used in electronics, computers and machinery, with often no substitutes available. Their value is not only based on physical rarity but also the large amounts of capital and investment required to literally mine them out of the ground, process and distribute.

obsidian

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7506
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3980 on: December 28, 2020, 11:00:37 AM »
There are a few key people holding onto a lot of bitcoin, the US gov is one, specifically the FBI who have seized a bunch.  Those jew twins and a few others.  They are eventually going to dump and run.  Once they do, bitcoin is going to crash quick and bad.

With that said.  Good for those who made some money on this.  It has been totally crazy.
The twins are not Jewish. They don't look it either.

"Cameron and Tyler were born in Southampton, N.Y. on Aug. 21, 1981 to Howard and Carol Winklevoss, both devout Christians. They were raised in Greenwich, Conn., a suburb of New York City and one of America’s most affluent towns. Despite this upbringing, the twins insist they come from humble roots."

https://www.workandmoney.com/s/winklevoss-twins-bio-bc28c09ffb074639

El Diablo Blanco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31841
  • Nom Nom Nom Nom
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3981 on: December 28, 2020, 11:02:08 AM »
The twins are not Jewish. They don't look it either.

"Cameron and Tyler were born in Southampton, N.Y. on Aug. 21, 1981 to Howard and Carol Winklevoss, both devout Christians. They were raised in Greenwich, Conn., a suburb of New York City and one of America’s most affluent towns. Despite this upbringing, the twins insist they come from humble roots."

https://www.workandmoney.com/s/winklevoss-twins-bio-bc28c09ffb074639

Doesn't change the fact that they own a shitload of bitcoin

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3011
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3982 on: December 28, 2020, 12:59:33 PM »
There are a few key people holding onto a lot of bitcoin, the US gov is one, specifically the FBI who have seized a bunch.  Those jew twins and a few others.  They are eventually going to dump and run.  Once they do, bitcoin is going to crash quick and bad.

With that said.  Good for those who made some money on this.  It has been totally crazy.

Large holders are required to sell to achieve greater market penetration.

Eg If you start off with 10 people owning all 21 million BTC, they need to sell off coins in order to achieve 100 holders.

Those large holders are looking at the long term so One would probably see then dumping along the way.

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3011
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3983 on: December 28, 2020, 01:21:35 PM »
They somehow fail to mention that a currency is backed by an entire national economy and all the factors of production, trade and commerce behind it. The value of a currency is not based on 'thin air' and is hardly 'monopoly money' as there is something tangible behind it giving it value.

A failed currency is usually reflective of a failed state, while a country with a relatively stable currency is reflective of good economic policies and other factors conducive to economic growth. The value is not based on 'nothing'.

And when comparing bitcoin to gold and precious metals, they also don't seem to mention that precious metals such as gold, platinum and palladium are used in electronics, computers and machinery, with often no substitutes available. Their value is not only based on physical rarity but also the large amounts of capital and investment required to literally mine out of the ground, process and distribute.

The belief system has been discussed previously but with a 160 page thread no one is going to see everything.

Today’s scenario is everything the gold bugs have waited for.....and it’s managed a paltry 26% return since the pandemic. It is being outperformed by the share market.

Yet it’s BTC that bothers you?

Ok Peter Schiff, move BtC aside for a moment and give your thoughts on the performance of gold during what is the ultimate gold bug scenario. Is the gold price performing brilliantly for you?

FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29222
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3984 on: December 29, 2020, 02:55:16 AM »

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32520
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3985 on: December 29, 2020, 09:22:33 AM »
The belief system has been discussed previously but with a 160 page thread no one is going to see everything.

Today’s scenario is everything the gold bugs have waited for.....and it’s managed a paltry 26% return since the pandemic. It is being outperformed by the share market.

Yet it’s BTC that bothers you?

Ok Peter Schiff, move BtC aside for a moment and give your thoughts on the performance of gold during what is the ultimate gold bug scenario. Is the gold price performing brilliantly for you?
Gold is a physical asset.  It will go up and down through the years but will always be worth something, just wait a few more years when it is down and you know it will come back up.  BTC could easily go to nothing overnight. 

Just a question, how many people have actually cashed out BTC and gotten rich?  If I tried to cash out 1 million of BTC today could I do it and get cash money for it?

polychronopolous

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19041
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3986 on: December 29, 2020, 10:29:36 AM »
Bitcoin Touches $500 Billion Market Cap, Beats Visa, Walmart and Samsung

The price of Bitcoin breached $28,000 yesterday as the cryptocurrency became more valuable than the payment services giant Visa.


Bitcoin, the world’s largest cryptocurrency is having a dream run in December. The price of BTC jumped above $28,000 on Sunday as the total market cap crossed $500 billion. The most valuable cryptocurrency is now worth more than the world’s largest payment services company Visa and the world’s top retailer Walmart.

The price of Bitcoin is currently trading above $27,000 with a total market cap of $501 billion. The total market cap of Visa currently stands at around $488 billion. BTC’s total value is now more than the world’s most prominent retailer, Walmart which has a total market cap of around $400 billion.

Earlier this month, Bitcoin crossed the total market cap of another financial services giant, Mastercard. The recent price rally is helping BTC to reach significant milestones. Bitcoin price must be targeting Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway, which has a market cap of nearly $530 billion.

According to the latest data available on Yahoo Finance, the total value of electronics giant, Samsung stands at around $451 billion, which means that BTC is now more valuable than Samsung in terms of market cap. 


https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/bitcoin-touches-500-billion-market-cap-beats-visa-walmart-and-samsung/

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3011
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3987 on: December 29, 2020, 11:48:16 AM »
Gold is a physical asset.  It will go up and down through the years but will always be worth something, just wait a few more years when it is down and you know it will come back up.  BTC could easily go to nothing overnight. 

Just a question, how many people have actually cashed out BTC and gotten rich?  If I tried to cash out 1 million of BTC today could I do it and get cash money for it?

Gold isn’t supposed to go up and down in this environment according to major gold commentators. Gold is supposed to surge and be the highest performing asset class due to the high level of QE. I am now seeing articles where gold believers are moving away from gold and claiming silver is now the perfect metal which is really the leading hedge to the monetary system. There seems to be confusion among the top gold hedge funds as to why it’s performing so poorly, even they admit it.

I’m still unsure where this BtC can go to zero immediately comes from? I have only heard such a comment on here, can you elaborate as to what you mean by that?

1 million BtC is 5%. If 5% of gold etf were sold it would trigger margin calls and result in a huge drop of prices. So given gold couldn’t handle it and it has trillions behind it, BtC couldn’t handle it either.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5114
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3988 on: December 29, 2020, 08:08:18 PM »
Gold is a physical asset.  It will go up and down through the years but will always be worth something, just wait a few more years when it is down and you know it will come back up.  BTC could easily go to nothing overnight. 

Just a question, how many people have actually cashed out BTC and gotten rich?  If I tried to cash out 1 million of BTC today could I do it and get cash money for it?

I find it a kind of warped mindset when people talk about "cashing out of BTC". To me it shows that they don't quite yet "get it".

It reminds be about one of my banker friends who was a former CEO of one of Australia's largest banks. He once told me, among his many tales as a young banker starting out, how he was charged with setting up the first branch of the bank in a country near Australia called "Papua New Guinea".

He told me that in the early days, the local housewives (very privative local basically savage tribes), would all come on a Friday to "take their money out" (to make sure it was really still there) and then redeposit it back on the Monday when the bank opened again after the weekend. :)

Its a very primitive way of thinking, but understandable at the same time. Monkeys and dogs also have similar concerns and hesitations when learning new concepts. Caution has been a desirable human trait in terms of our survival. But an even more important trait that has been key to human success and evolution, both as a group and as individuals, has been open-mindedness and curiosity (as opposed to obstinate pig-headedness of the kind demonstrated by Mr Anabolic throughout this thread, which is more akin to a goat repeatedly bashing its head against a tree).

Put in very simplistic, terms it is far far easier to "cash out" of BTC, that it is for gold. Or to use it to purchase it for anything. Or to transfer it to anywhere in the world. Or to instantly break in down into any denomination. But either why, you really need to be twisting your logic on its head and start looking at how to "cash out" of cash, which you know with certainty and can see before your very eyes, is devaluing due to money printing. It defies logic to hold cash of any significant amount in these circumstances. And to believe doing so is "safe" boarders on being dilutional and irrational lunacy if you think about it.

The more important question to ask is what is the safest thing to do with wealth currently denominated in cash. In my view the answer (at a high level) is a mix of stocks (or businesses that you own and operate outright), property, gold, and Bitcoin.

What people are doing is "cashing out" of fake money. And cashing into a hard asset. Which is BTC. (As for what proportions allocation, and the pros and cons of each class, that is a more personal question. But you can be very sure that as BTC is a new asset class, its % overall in portfolios will be increasing over time, compared to the others).

But yes, in summary you could use BTC to buy fiat currency at an instant. Over 1 Billion USD value of BTC trade daily, and that volume is only increasing.

DooM_

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 716
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3989 on: December 30, 2020, 12:28:43 AM »
'' you aren't investing when you buy cryptocurrency. you're speculating. if you wanna gamble, somebody else will come along and pay more money tomorrow. that's one kind of game. but that is not investing. if you buy bitcoin, you don't really have anything that has produced anything. you're just hoping the next guy pays more.

cryptocurrencies basically have no value. they don't produce anything. you can't do anything with it except sell it to somebody else, but then that person's got the problem. i don't own any cryptocurrency, i never will. ''

warren buffett

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5114
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3990 on: December 30, 2020, 12:40:58 AM »
'' you aren't investing when you buy cryptocurrency. you're speculating. if you wanna gamble, somebody else will come along and pay more money tomorrow. that's one kind of game. but that is not investing. if you buy bitcoin, you don't really have anything that has produced anything. you're just hoping the next guy pays more. ''

warren buffett

He's correct. The same concept applies to gold by the way, which lasted as a store of wealth for many centuries...

So, the question you need to ask yourself right now. Over the next few years, are going to pay more (or less) fiat currency for a share of the limited supply of BTC that currently exists right now. The answer, a(nd its resulting effect on price) should be pretty obvious...

DooM_

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 716
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3991 on: December 30, 2020, 12:47:27 AM »
He's correct. The same concept applies to gold by the way, which lasted as a store of wealth for many centuries...

So, the question you need to ask yourself right now. Over the next few years, are going to pay more (or less) fiat currency for a share of the limited supply of BTC that currently exists right now. The answer, a(nd its resulting effect on price) should be pretty obvious...

he also says  '' cryptocurrencies basically have no value '' . . .

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32520
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3992 on: December 30, 2020, 04:59:04 AM »
I find it a kind of warped mindset when people talk about "cashing out of BTC". To me it shows that they don't quite yet "get it".

It reminds be about one of my banker friends who was a former CEO of one of Australia's largest banks. He once told me, among his many tales as a young banker starting out, how he was charged with setting up the first branch of the bank in a country near Australia called "Papua New Guinea".

He told me that in the early days, the local housewives (very privative local basically savage tribes), would all come on a Friday to "take their money out" (to make sure it was really still there) and then redeposit it back on the Monday when the bank opened again after the weekend. :)

Its a very primitive way of thinking, but understandable at the same time. Monkeys and dogs also have similar concerns and hesitations when learning new concepts. Caution has been a desirable human trait in terms of our survival. But an even more important trait that has been key to human success and evolution, both as a group and as individuals, has been open-mindedness and curiosity (as opposed to obstinate pig-headedness of the kind demonstrated by Mr Anabolic throughout this thread, which is more akin to a goat repeatedly bashing its head against a tree).

Put in very simplistic, terms it is far far easier to "cash out" of BTC, that it is for gold. Or to use it to purchase it for anything. Or to transfer it to anywhere in the world. Or to instantly break in down into any denomination. But either why, you really need to be twisting your logic on its head and start looking at how to "cash out" of cash, which you know with certainty and can see before your very eyes, is devaluing due to money printing. It defies logic to hold cash of any significant amount in these circumstances. And to believe doing so is "safe" boarders on being dilutional and irrational lunacy if you think about it.

The more important question to ask is what is the safest thing to do with wealth currently denominated in cash. In my view the answer (at a high level) is a mix of stocks (or businesses that you own and operate outright), property, gold, and Bitcoin.

What people are doing is "cashing out" of fake money. And cashing into a hard asset. Which is BTC. (As for what proportions allocation, and the pros and cons of each class, that is a more personal question. But you can be very sure that as BTC is a new asset class, its % overall in portfolios will be increasing over time, compared to the others).

But yes, in summary you could use BTC to buy fiat currency at an instant. Over 1 Billion USD value of BTC trade daily, and that volume is only increasing.
If you can cash out for fiat money I would do so.

People have been calling for the collapse of fiat money for a long time.  I have a Soldier Of Fortune magazine from the 1970's telling people that money isn't worth anything since it's not backed by gold and to move off the grid.  Fiat money isn't going anywhere.  Bitcoin, gold, stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, etc, are all value based on fiat money.  If money is worth nothing than neither will anything else except for food, guns, ammo and shelter.

DooM_

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 716
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3993 on: December 30, 2020, 05:03:43 AM »
If you can cash out for fiat money I would do so.

but if he cashes out it will be '' fake money '' . . .

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32520
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3994 on: December 30, 2020, 05:06:15 AM »
but if he cashes out it will be '' fake money '' . . .
I know, the "fake money" everyone uses when they go grocery shopping, buy gas for the car, pay the rent or mortgage, buy booze, hookers, etc.  :D

polychronopolous

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19041
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3995 on: December 30, 2020, 06:30:57 AM »
he also says  '' cryptocurrencies basically have no value '' . . .

Then his glasses are really going to fog over when Bitcoin passes Berkshire Hathaway's market value in the next few days.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5114
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3996 on: December 30, 2020, 06:34:24 AM »
he also says  '' cryptocurrencies basically have no value '' . . .

He does not say that they have no value. Indeed, he knows full well that value of any asset is the function of what the market is collectively prepared to pay for it

However, what he does say, is that BTC has no intrinsic value. And on this he is correct. BTC produces no yield. Its value is entirely dependent on what others are prepared to pay for it. Same with gold. Same with art. And increasingly also same with "trophy properties" whose valued these days are almost devoid of any actual earnings yield.

Buffet will only buy assets he can value. And as Buffet disciple, this is my approach also. Which is why it took me so long to get my head around investing in BTC based on on a speculative societal trend (vs an economically calculatable asset of value based on cashflow) discounted to the rate of risk free return.

I addressed this topic long ago in this thread. Please see below:

In terms of value, there are some commodities that have a value that truly reflect their use in terms of both production cost and end-user consumption (eg iron, copper, coffee, pork bellies etc). Even with these there is some amount of speculative value, but that relates more to predictions of how demand and production costs will be affected by various factors.

With gold (and BTC by the way), there is both a production cost and there is a utility for both too (gold is used in some electronic devices for example, and BTC is used for transactions) - but in both cases their value far far exceeds their true value based on actual use. Both gold and BTC's values are by a very large factor based on a collective agreement among a group of people to attribute a value to them as a store of value, based primarily on scarcity, among other factors. And that value, is entirely subjective and detached from actual use value - so BTC (and gold for that matter) are basically impossible to value.

They best metric I would use as an investor of in them would be to try to predict the direction of the relevant portion of potential buyers perceptions and demand for them.  I believe that there is a possibility that the infrastructure and philosophy around the new (usually young generation of crypto buyers) may eventually come around full circle and generate a new generation of people also interested in gold (and perhaps most importantly this new generation is fully plugged in to social media, which can help to very quickly create demand in an exponential way, for a new asset class..


I am happy to explain further if needed, but I hope this makes sense.

gib

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5114
  • Getbig!
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3997 on: December 30, 2020, 06:48:59 AM »
Bitcoin, gold, stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, etc, are all value based on fiat money. 

You have it all topsy turvy. (Except for stocks) these assets have not fundamentally changed in any way to justify them all magically increasing in value over time. What has happened is that the fiat money that you value them against has devalued.  On a massive and systemic level. The rich get this. They use cash to by such assets. The poor really don't seem to get it. They "save cash" and wonder why despite doing so they never seem to make any progress. Cash is one of the most risky assets you can be in right now when compared to its alternatives.

Mayday

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3011
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3998 on: December 30, 2020, 01:42:24 PM »
I’m in on Eth @700 for 50k. Will be a short term hold for a sell and switch to BTC.

FitnessFrenzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 29222
  • faux pas
Re: Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!
« Reply #3999 on: December 30, 2020, 04:26:20 PM »
$ 29,175.27