Mike Mentzer

[War-Horse]

Ive always read, from Mentzer's articles or proponents of his training philosophy about how HIT is the only scientifically sound way to train.  Unfortunately I haven't read any real scientific studies to back that up. The much vaunted Colorado experiment inst what you would call scientifically sound.  There was  no control subjects or strict methodology used.  A lot of the training philosophy seemed to depend on generalizations about human physiology such as each person is relatively the same and that stimulation applied will be relatively the same, recuperation times are relatively the same and if a person is not benefiting from training the automatic response is to decrease stimulation.  It doesn't seem to take into account genetic variations in the human population such as recuperative variances and hormonal makeup.  This is my initial opinion of HIT, though it might change as I look at it further.

Caseys results were from muscle memory and gear , rest and food.   Ill bet he didnt have a job during the test......

[Monster_Everything]

Sidenote....

the guy who started the thread "Years Gone By" was an annoying lil tiny tit.....

Im sure he is someones old gimmick

[BEAST 8692]

Caseys results were from muscle memory and gear , rest and food.   Ill bet he didnt have a job during the test......

exactly.

viator was a genetic monster and jones was smart enough to realise that he was the perfect candidate.

he hadn't trained for quite a while and casey and arthur had a previous trainee-trainer relationship where arthur knew exactly what buttons to push, how to feed him, how to hormonise him, recovery, motivation, etc, etc. he also had seen casey make massive improvements in a short space of time before. casey was arthur's frankenstein, he thrived on brutally hard work, trained like an animal and, as pointed out, had nothing to do but train, eat, hormonise, sleep, rinse, repeat.

jones knew that casey was his golden goose, he even had assistants carry casey from each exercise apparatus when he was done.

all casey had to do for that whole time was GET BIG and he had every tool in the box to do it with.

[D.L. 5]

Really? How long have you been training? I would imagine beginners could as their bodies arent used to training, but for more advanced lifters sitting round for 6 days a week just doesnt make sense to me. Obviously you need rest, but i dont think many people could get anywhere near their potential training less than 3 times per week

hey, yeah well i trained for abit over two years very well, took a long lay off and came back with the emphasis on fat loss. SO i guess up until now my many of my gains have been a partial result of regaining muscle. but for example, my calves have grown muscle i never even saw before which i credit to the high intensity approach to them. so i guess the real test will be how my gains go over the next several months.

the thought about advanced bodybuilders he takes it like this - the stresses imposed are much greater for advanced bodybuilders and it make s a bigger inroad into their recovery ability ( eg- concentration curling 20 pounds versus an advanced lifter using 80 pounds causes more stress). he advocates that advanced users should use more advanced intensity techniques such as rest-pause, negative failure, static failure.
he says they need more rest because of the stress and they are closer to reaching their critical point of overtraining from stress and also their upper genetic potential.

[DVSGOD]

Blutey ,what do you say about the incestual homosexual affair between mike and ray?

[tommywishbone]

OK guys, dig this and dig it good; Mike was good for bodybuilding and he was a good man.

Tom

[D.L. 5]

Caseys results were from muscle memory and gear , rest and food.   Ill bet he didnt have a job during the test......

thats what mike said.

also to others, he refers to other research and theory regarding stress a couple of people's work cant remember the names, this is another thing that separates his theory from jones, he believes three times per week as jones said led to overtraining.

[BEAST 8692]

thats what mike said.

also to others, he refers to other research and theory regarding stress a couple of people's work cant remember the names, this is another thing that separates his theory from jones, he believes three times per week as jones said led to overtraining.

hello, jones was saying 3 times per week when mike was TRAINING 6 days a week. the lowest frequency mike did in his competitive years was 4 times per week and that was ENTIRELY influenced by jones.

jones DID alter his belief here and mike followed. mike followed jones' ideas on higher intensity making greater inroads and thus requiring more recovery. obviously, it was only natural, given jones' theorum that the frequency would come down, but make no mistake (and anyone that has read arthur jones knows this) jones was the originator of the hit system, mike was merely one of the many followers.

[D.L. 5]

beast,

yes u are right bout that stuff (stuff which i previously did not know re: jones)....i was saying that mike had a different theory and belief as he expanded his principles eg- if u read 'high intensity training the mike mentzer way' it shows the difference.

[BEAST 8692]

beast,

yes u are right bout that stuff (stuff which i previously did not know re: jones)....i was saying that mike had a different theory and belief as he expanded his principles eg- if u read 'high intensity training the mike mentzer way' it shows the difference.

that's my point, he didn't expand on anything.

the problem is, there are too many variables ie sex, age, height, weight, hormones, motivation, recovery, drugs, ethnic origin, leverages, rep cadence, the list goes on and on and on, believe me, i could be here all day.

imo, mentzers books are more a case study on his sanity than anything else. one absolute - BULLSHIT.

[War-Horse]

Jones theory does make alot of sense.  Especially the need for more rest as you become advanced in your genetic limit.   The central nervous system is heavily taxed by resistance training.

Ive always tried to listen to my body by following a basic 3on 2off plan.  But that quicly turns to a 2on 2off and eventually to a 3-4 times a week......

As the weeks go on (about 8 weeks)  I need a week off, and usually come back stronger and better for it.

As a drug free trainer, i have attained alot of mass simply from my staying away from the gym when needed.

[D.L. 5]

if u use the methods like positive failure,negative failure, and static, as u get more advanced u can get to the point of working out only once every seven days, cos it taxes ur central nervous system so much u dont want to be in the gym earlier than that. those who have done h.i.t will know wat i mean.

[BEAST 8692]

if u use the methods like positive failure,negative failure, and static, as u get more advanced u can get to the point of working out only once every seven days, cos it taxes ur central nervous system so much u dont want to be in the gym earlier than that. those who have done h.i.t will know wat i mean.

yes i know, but how does anyone know, given the aforementioned variables, what measure of intensity/inroads into recovery and how long to rest?

what exactly defines and advanced trainee? someone that benches 400lbs for reps? what if one person does 300lbs with an 8 second negative and positive and another subject does 250lbs with a 30 second negative and 27 second second positive? what about if you get someone 5' 0 doing 10 rep squats with 500lb vs a 6'5 guy doing squats with 400lbs for 10, who's more advanced?

i could go on and on adnauseum, but i guess the only real way to tell how much recovery, etc you need is to experiment. where mentzer's theorum is flawed is that he doesn't account for the variables and simply DICTATES one absolute ie everyone trains the same way regardless of variables.

[D.L. 5]

i feel ya beast,

i think advanced means ur upper limits of ur genetic potential.

all i know is that when i use the high intensity principles, my body doesnt feel like goin to the gym for 6-7 days, its very draining. its hard to explain, i never felt like this doing the normal training styles. but the calve results have impressed me the most.

but i must make it clear, i am on very low calories, at 220 pounds i am only eating like 1,100 - 1,300 calories per day simply because i am unhappy with my stored fat on my body.

[BEAST 8692]

i feel ya beast,

i think advanced means ur upper limits of ur genetic potential.

all i know is that when i use the high intensity principles, my body doesnt feel like goin to the gym for 6-7 days, its very draining. its hard to explain, i never felt like this doing the normal training styles. but the calve results have impressed me the most.

but i must make it clear, i am on very low calories, at 220 pounds i am only eating like 1,100 - 1,300 calories per day simply because i am unhappy with my stored fat on my body.

yes, but who actually knows what their genetic potential is?

it's defeatist terminology and perhaps a bit of a cop out ie who would have thought in 1920 that a human being could carry the muscle mass of ronnie coleman?

i know one may argue, "but that's drugs", however genetic potential by definition does not mean, 'to the exclusion of ergonenic aids'.

in any case, it appears that you're working harder and analysing the results which are probably the 2 most important aspects towards progressive training.

the hardest part of training is motivation imo. if you can stay motivated and positive you will get far greater results. it's bloody hard to keep working brutally hard week in week out, especially if you're doing it alone, but the guys that can definitely get the best results, drugs aside.

it's good to see you're getting the results and i hope you continue doing what matters ie busting your ass in the gym. 

[D.L. 5]

cool beast,

yeah...in the end as long as u r getting results its all good. and its all about busting ur ass and discipline both eating clean and training and cardio....

thanks for the comments.

[Bluto]

Merge all threads about Mike Mentzer into this one please!

[ButtonMan]

[west coast willie]

mentzer is an un-crowned mr. o.  BIG dude. 

[D.L. 5]

mentzer is an un-crowned mr. o.  BIG dude. 

thats right!

[D.L. 5]

  It doesn't seem to take into account genetic variations in the human population such as recuperative variances and hormonal makeup.

Mike said the stimulus that causes the best growth is one way high intensity is one - h.i.t

he said ur response to that stimulus is purely genetic and the amount of muscle u can eventually build is pre-determined (but that ur genetic potential cant be realised till u actually train and explore that potential). he had 1,000's of clients and their results illustrated this.

[Bluto]

guy was a animal in the gym

the thinking mans bodybuilder

experimented with his body like a science project

and had a stache outta this world

will there ever be someone like him ever again i wonder ?

[hipolito mejia]

guy was a animal in the gym

the thinking mans bodybuilder

experimented with his body like a science project

and had a stache outta this world

will there ever be someone like him ever again i wonder ?

Franco and Lou were true animals at the gym.

Mentzer experimented more with depression and Psychological issues than anything else.

had a mustache outta of this world....So did freddy Mercury

Will ever be someone like him again?


maybe,
but what for??

[Iron_Sheik]

Franco and Lou were true animals at the gym.

Mentzer experimented more with depression and Psychological issues than anything else.

had a mustache outta of this world....So did freddy Mercury

Will ever be someone like him again?


maybe,
but what for??

And that was it? You sir, are a fucking idiot.

[slaveboy1980]

guy was a animal in the gym

the thinking mans bodybuilder

experimented with his body like a science project

and had a stache outta this world

will there ever be someone like him ever again i wonder ?

mentzer wasnt as smart as people believe..or as smart as he believed himself to be.

arnold was smarter when it came to bodybuilding in practice and real world problems (he had street smarts)

arnold didnt try to project himself as the thinking mans bodybuilder but in reality his instincts and ability to borrow information from other bodybuilders took him to the top.

mentzer used many useless analogies and metaphors in his training articles. for those without a critical mind the articles can be seen as smart and convincing..but inreality they are mostly bullshit.