Author Topic: iran Nuke Deal Reached! (Read 4265 times)

OzmO · « **Reply #50 on:** July 20, 2015, 06:46:44 PM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 20, 2015, 06:17:12 PM

no way ..contrary to what you might think, my arguments are based on evidence and rationality....

France and Britain , our two greatest allies in the world think its a great deal and remember France a few months ago stated loudly that they didn't like the deal...they have now come onboard......the deal was written by nuclear experts

Uzi Even, who is a nuclear physicist who used to work in the Iranian facilities stated "the deal blocks every pathway to a bomb that I know of......the Iranians maybe celebrating but they have in fact swallowed a very bitter pill.....more so than they would like to let on...."

Many other experts that I've seen on CNN stated that the deal is good for America and grants access to facilities that are unheard of..

so I think I have reason to take the position that I have

No they are not.

First, you failed to see my position on the whole thing repeatedly.

Then you assumed it was a great deal without knowing any of the details.

Pretty much what you have done is what 33333 used to do all the time: exchange common sense and rationality for bias

Now that its been a few days all you are doing is regurgitating what you've seen other peeps say (likely mostly opinion based stuff). And you are probably, because you made your mind up early to fall in line with your parties status quo, you are only paying attention to stuff that supports your premature conclusions of a few days ago. Just like 33333 used to do all the time.

Yes, Andre you are no different than 3333 in this respect.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #51 on:** July 20, 2015, 06:58:05 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 20, 2015, 06:46:44 PM

No they are not.

First, you failed to see my position on the whole thing repeatedly.

Then you assumed it was a great deal without knowing any of the details.

Pretty much what you have done is what 33333 used to do all the time: exchange common sense and rationality for bias

Now that its been a few days all you are doing is regurgitating what you've seen other peeps say (likely mostly opinion based stuff). And you are probably, because you made your mind up early to fall in line with your parties status quo, you are only paying attention to stuff that supports your premature conclusions of a few days ago. Just like 33333 used to do all the time.

Yes, Andre you are no different than 3333 in this respect.

you're going way overboard and I presented why I'm for the agreement...you haven't presented anything yet..you're on the fence and that's fine but Im taking a stand and based on what I've heard so far, I like the deal....as for "waiting to read it first" that's a red herring and you know it...you nor anybody else on GetBig is going to read a document that is likely to run hundreds if not thousands of pages....and you wouldn't understand what you're reading anyway unless the great Ozmo is also a nuclear scientist

OzmO · « **Reply #52 on:** July 20, 2015, 07:30:59 PM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 20, 2015, 06:58:05 PM

you're going way overboard and I presented why I'm for the agreement...you haven't presented anything yet..you're on the fence and that's fine but Im taking a stand and based on what I've heard so far, I like the deal....as for "waiting to read it first" that's a red herring and you know it...you nor anybody else on GetBig is going to read a document that is likely to run hundreds if not thousands of pages....and you wouldn't understand what you're reading anyway unless the great Ozmo is also a nuclear scientist

You took a stand before you heard anything of substance. At least admit it homes.

(you seem to forget, only Coach is left here these days, 333 is long gone, no need to post as if he's still here)

Congress is going to hash it out. During that process much will be revealed in a way that's easy to understand about the treaty.

240 is Back · « **Reply #53 on:** July 20, 2015, 09:29:44 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 20, 2015, 03:00:51 PM

America cant have everything it wants.

They believe reagan won 100% of the battles he fought with our adversaries and never compromised, ever.

their recollection of 1980 to 1988 wsa mostly doing coke and voting mondale, but today they loves them some reagan lol.

Pray_4_War · « **Reply #54 on:** July 21, 2015, 06:24:23 AM »

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/21/kerry-says-iran-vow-to-defy-u-s-is-very-disturbing/21211758/

Fucking lol.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #55 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:29:01 AM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 20, 2015, 07:30:59 PM

You took a stand before you heard anything of substance. At least admit it homes. (you seem to forget, only Coach is left here these days, 333 is long gone, no need to post as if he's still here)

Congress is going to hash it out. During that process much will be revealed in a way that's easy to understand about the treaty.

I guess we can add "mindreader" to your credentials as a getbig Mod and Nuclear physicist......I've been following this for the past few months and listening to opinions from pundits on various media shows.....I devour news practically 24/7....so I do have some info to go on in forming an opinion....as for substance I have already given you substance for my arguments....you just refuse to accept it as such because you chose to be argumentative....

OzmO · « **Reply #56 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:40:06 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 08:29:01 AM

I guess we can add "mindreader" to your credentials as a getbig Mod and Nuclear physicist......I've been following this for the past few months and listening to opinions from pundits on various media shows.....I devour news practically 24/7....so I do have some info to go on in forming an opinion....as for substance I have already given you substance for my arguments....you just refuse to accept it as such because you chose to be argumentative....

Oh yeah they were releasing details of these public (behind closed doors) negotiations as they were happening. Right.

lol

You just hopped on the band wagon the minute your precious OB was attacked without looking to see where the wagon was heading. Plain and simple.

I am not choosing to be argumentative. I am pointing out BS when i see it.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #57 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:44:42 AM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 21, 2015, 08:40:06 AM

Oh yeah they were releasing details of these public (behind closed doors) negotiations as they were happening. Right. lol

You just hopped on the band wagon the minute your precious OB was attacked without looking to see where the wagon was heading. Plain and simple.

I am not choosing to be argumentative. I am pointing out BS when i see it.

theres no BS my friend...I have always been for an agreement that keeps us out of war....and I'm for the agreement now....I've been consistent.....if anything conservatives who don't like the deal but are all over the news being agaisnt the deal haven't seen it either..yet they are still giving their opinion about it..I'm just doing the same....yet you're villifying me....

and if there is no deal then again WHATS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

OzmO · « **Reply #58 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:48:34 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 08:44:42 AM

theres no BS my friend...I have always been for an agreement that keeps us out of war....

Stay on point there homes, that's not what this discussion is about. heheheh HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Quote

....yet you're villifying me....

No i am just showing how full of shit you are.

Quote

and if there is no deal then again WHATS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

This isn't an all or nothing issue. Dam you sound so republican right now. cracking me up!

andreisdaman · « **Reply #59 on:** July 21, 2015, 09:00:43 AM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 21, 2015, 08:48:34 AM

Stay on point there homes, that's not what this discussion is about. heheheh HAHAHAHAHAHAH

No i am just showing how full of shit you are.

This isn't an all or nothing issue. Dam you sound so republican right now. cracking me up!

sigh.....you're evading..........going in circles

OzmO · « **Reply #60 on:** July 21, 2015, 09:40:58 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 09:00:43 AM

sigh.....you're evading..........going in circles

how am i going in circles? lol

Pray_4_War · « **Reply #61 on:** July 21, 2015, 02:58:45 PM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 08:44:42 AM

and if there is no deal then again WHATS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

Democrat logic. Lets create phony urgency and do something stupid just to get something done.

The alternative is no deal. Don't be in a hurry to lift the sanctions. There's no reason to. A deal, even a good deal, benefits Iran way more than it does us...and you can't trust them worth a shit to abide by the deal anyway.

Obama and his team of stooges have to be the worst negotiators in the history of time.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #62 on:** July 21, 2015, 04:47:23 PM »

Quote from: Pray_4_War on July 21, 2015, 02:58:45 PM

Democrat logic. Lets create phony urgency and do something stupid just to get something done.

The alternative is no deal. Don't be in a hurry to lift the sanctions. There's no reason to. A deal, even a good deal, benefits Iran way more than it does us...and you can't trust them worth a shit to abide by the deal anyway.

Obama and his team of stooges have to be the worst negotiators in the history of time.

sigh....you act as if NO DEAL means they won't get the bomb...THEY WILL>>.....North Korea.....Israel.....and Pakistan got the bomb....Japan and South Korea could get it if they wanted to...they have the technology......Continue d sanctions won't stop them from getting nukes.....Negotiation is the only way short of war....also BRITAIN AND FRANCE WANT THE DEAL....Russia and China want it as well or they are going to break sanctions and start selling Iran all the shit they will need to develop a weapon

what your alternative

andreisdaman · « **Reply #63 on:** July 21, 2015, 05:54:54 PM »

The former leader of Shin Bet (Israel's intelligence service), Ami Ayalon, just came out and said "The Iran deal is good for Israel"

...he also stated that he knows many other officials in Shin Bet and in the Mossad (Israel's equivalent of the CIA) who agree with him and think the deal is best for Israel... Quote "when it comes to Iran's nuclear capability, this deal is the best option"

If its good enough for him and for the other members of the Mossad and Shin Bet, its good enough for me.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/21/ex-intel-chief-iran-deal-good-for-israel.html

DESTROYED

END OF THREAD

Pray_4_War · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2015, 04:12:39 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 04:47:23 PM

sigh....you act as if NO DEAL means they won't get the bomb...THEY WILL>>.....North Korea.....Israel.....and Pakistan got the bomb....Japan and South Korea could get it if they wanted to...they have the technology......Continue d sanctions won't stop them from getting nukes.....Negotiation is the only way short of war....also BRITAIN AND FRANCE WANT THE DEAL....Russia and China want it as well or they are going to break sanctions and start selling Iran all the shit they will need to develop a weapon

what your alternative

Two tactics being used.

1. Pretending that it's inevitable so we must help them speed the process along.

2. Pretending that we must either take this deal or come up with an alternative immediately. Phony urgency.

Both false.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2015, 07:49:09 AM »

Quote from: Pray_4_War on July 22, 2015, 04:12:39 AM

Two tactics being used.

1. Pretending that it's inevitable so we must help them speed the process along.

2. Pretending that we must either take this deal or come up with an alternative immediately. Phony urgency.

Both false.

Dude...it definitely is inevitiable....even with sanctions, Iran was progressing nicely toward a nuke.....it would happen eventually...nothing can prevent that short of war......The American people consistently have said they do not want to go to war again in the middle east.....if teh moderate middle eastern countries were smart, they would partner up with Israel and restore diplomatic relations with them....and then they could present a united front against Iran...but Israel would also have to finally deal seriiously with teh Palestinian problem..so therin lies the problem

headhuntersix · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:06:01 AM »

How...explain how it was inevitiable. No name calling...no bullshit...explain how it was this deal or no deal.

240 is Back · « **Reply #67 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:14:01 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on July 21, 2015, 05:54:54 PM

The former leader of Shin Bet (Israel's intelligence service), Ami Ayalon, just came out and said "The Iran deal is good for Israel" ...he also stated that he knows many other officials in Shin Bet and in the Mossad (Israel's equivalent of the CIA) who agree with him and think the deal is best for Israel... Quote "when it comes to Iran's nuclear capability, this deal is the best option"

If its good enough for him and for the other members of the Mossad and Shin Bet, its good enough for me.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/21/ex-intel-chief-iran-deal-good-for-israel.html

DESTROYED

END OF THREAD

wow. I don't know enough about this topic to debate deeply, but it seems like that person would know what they are talking about more than getbiggers.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #68 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:29:42 AM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on July 22, 2015, 08:06:01 AM

How...explain how it was inevitiable. No name calling...no bullshit...explain how it was this deal or no deal.

okay....Headhunter, you gotta look at the facts.....NORTH KOREA has the worst economy on earth and has had crippling sanctions on them forever...YET...they were able to engineer nukes and are still adding to that arsenal today........Pakistan too...they were able to engineer nukes as well even though they are basically a third world country...so was Israel even though half the world doesn't trade with them.......

Even china was an extremely poor country when they developed nukes back in the 1950's...sanctions didn't work against them either

Sanctions and having a poor economy DOES NOT WORK to keep countries from acquiring nukes...

at least this treaty gives us access to their facilities and gives us some idea of what they've got and where its all hidden....this will come in handy later on in case we REALLY DO have to bomb them if they break the treaty......also it prevents them from spreading this nuclear technology to others because we will know what they have, and how much so NOTHING CAN BE DIVERTED

Plus we have to begin to move on and establish some type of relationship with Iran like we've done with Cuba.....we can't afford to have permanent enemies.....we dealt with STALIN who was probably the worse mass murderer in history so he could help us against Hitler....we dealt with MAO who murdered millions as well.....surely we can deal with IRAN

and again if you read my post above, many members of Shin Bet and the Mossad are actually for the deal....if its fine with them and they say that Netanyahu is wrong, then why are we so against it?

...also these talks began in the BUSH ADMINISTRATION....Bush wanted this deal as well....but Obama MADE IT HAPPEN...the opposition to this deal is mostly because of the hostility toward Obama...plain and simple..its politics...NOT substance.Bush could not go against his own party....give Obama credit for having the balls to see it through to the end..also for saving the lives of countless American soldiers

headhuntersix · « **Reply #69 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:34:12 AM »

We can't?.....we did for 50 years with the russians and they collapsed...history much? These people sponsor terrorism around the world. This treaty gives us no friggen access as they have banned US inspectors. You trust the UN? The two guys Stalin and Mao......they represented political ideologies...this is a murderous poli/rel ideology that can't be reasoned with. There are no reliable checks to stop them. Sanctions worked..threat of attacks worked...Iran is not NK. NK had china the entire time.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #70 on:** July 22, 2015, 08:44:31 AM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on July 22, 2015, 08:34:12 AM

We can't?.....we did for 50 years with the russians and they collapsed...history much? These people sponsor terrorism around the world. This treaty gives us no friggen access as they have banned US inspectors. You trust the UN? The two guys Stalin and Mao......they represented political ideologies...this is a murderous poli/rel ideology that can't be reasoned with. There are no reliable checks to stop them. Sanctions worked..threat of attacks worked...Iran is not NK. NK had china the entire time.

Sanctions were NOT working...you are living in a fantasy..if sanctions were working why was Israel threatening to Bomb the Iranian facilities

??..and yes communism was a murderous ideology....Stalin murdered tens of millions including 20 million in the famine he purposely created in the Ukraine....Mao murdered millions in the Cultural Revolution....again we have to at least try with the agreement.....yes they sponsor terrorism but we can only moderate their behavior later on if we begin to lessen tensions now.....your only alternative is war..the American people do not want that

headhuntersix · « **Reply #71 on:** July 22, 2015, 11:09:01 AM »

What do those two have in common...they were murdering their own people...if the Irainins mudered 20 million of their own we could move right in. So in your mind...Irans' inability to harden their nuke sites with the latest Russian Anti Air or re equip Hamas or Hezbollah adequatly enough to continue to fuck with Israel as in affective. They worked well enough but now there are no sanctions and they can do whatever they want. Where since 1979 has it been shown that these guys can be appeased....you can't show it because they cannot be appeased. People like this understand one thing....a goddam punch in the nuts.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #72 on:** July 22, 2015, 04:24:57 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on July 22, 2015, 11:09:01 AM

What do those two have in common...they were murdering their own people...if the Irainins mudered 20 million of their own we could move right in. So in your mind...Irans' inability to harden their nuke sites with the latest Russian Anti Air or re equip Hamas or Hezbollah adequatly enough to continue to fuck with Israel as in affective. They worked well enough but now there are no sanctions and they can do whatever they want. Where since 1979 has it been shown that these guys can be appeased....you can't show it because they cannot be appeased. People like this understand one thing....a goddam punch in the nuts.

Making a deal with your enemy is not always appeasement,,,its self- preservation.......bette r to make a deal and bring Iran back into the family of nations or they could just sell their technology to the crazies out there..

Again...leaders of Shin Bet and the Mossad say the deal is fine....and they are the ones who are directly threatened....

LurkerNoMore · « **Reply #73 on:** July 24, 2015, 11:42:33 AM »

andreisdaman · « **Reply #74 on:** July 24, 2015, 11:51:29 AM »

Quote from: LurkerNoMore on July 24, 2015, 11:42:33 AM

.

Good job