Matthew 12:32

[The Ugly]

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Questions: What's the difference? Thought it was an equilateral triangle, but the Ghost is more sacred than Jesus? Why?

Furthermore, in what possible context would you anticipate someone cursing the Holy Spirit, this ambiguous entity we barely even understand? We hardly acknowledge the cat, much less talk shit - it's the trio's anonymous bass player. Not sure we need a protective order here, fella.

(Also, why italicize the future "age"?)

[The Ugly]

If this wasn't the type of traffic you were looking for, just say the word. Not trying to stir shit.

[scottt]

It means that you do not believe.

[The Ugly]

It means that you do not believe.

Not sure that helps, but thanks.

[scottt]

The future age is Christ kingdom that will replace the current kingdoms and government of the Earth.

[The Ugly]

The future age is Christ kingdom that will replace the current kingdoms and government of the Earth.

Again, no help.

[tbombz]

I don't have a perfect answer... But I'll try to explain it the best way I can..

Speaking against The Holy Spirit , blasphemy against The Holy Spirit,  is not simply saying something like "curse The Holy Spirit", it is actually knowingly, intentionally, wilfully waging war against God.

This would only occur in a specific context, for example =


"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
Hebrews 6:4-6 NASB


Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit is the ultimate, final, irreversible wilful rejection of the love, goodness, mercy, and grace of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


I am happy to see your interested in the Bible, ugly.

[The Ugly]

Still pretty vague. Don't see the sense in a Holy Spirit to begin with, God's already got the ghosty stuff covered. Jesus, fine, you need the human manifestation, I get it.

They reached too far with this trinity thing, I gotta say. Tried too hard to force this third indefinable (and unnecessary) whatever that they probably didn't understand themselves. Shoulda just stuck with the two.

[tbombz]

Well, I understand you feel that way, but we have to go with what the Bible says!

There is some evidence, not just in the Bible, but also in Creation that God is a Trinity. Space is made of three dimensions, and the universe is made of time, space and matter.

 If we look into our selves, being made in the image of God, our mind is made of three things: memory, understanding, and will.

Also, the Trinity is not just God expressing Himself in three different ways. The Trinity is actually three entirely different person's, all with the same essential essence, but distinctly separate and different persons.

I agree that if I was going to make up a religion I would not make up the Trinity! One small part of the evidence for Christianity is that it involves so many strange, unnecessary, counter-intuitive elements that we can safely conclude no one simply made it up. If someone made up a religion they would have made up a far more simple and easily defendable  One! Lol

[The Ugly]

Well, I understand you feel that way, but we have to go with what the Bible says!

There is some evidence, not just in the Bible, but also in Creation that God is a Trinity. Space is made of three dimensions, and the universe is made of time, space and matter.

 If we look into our selves, being made in the image of God, our mind is made of three things: memory, understanding, and will.

Also, the Trinity is not just God expressing Himself in three different ways. The Trinity is actually three entirely different person's, all with the same essential essence, but distinctly separate and different persons.

I agree that if I was going to make up a religion I would not make up the Trinity! One small part of the evidence for Christianity is that it involves so many strange, unnecessary, counter-intuitive elements that we can safely conclude no one simply made it up. If someone made up a religion they would have made up a far more simple and easily defendable  One! Lol

I think you're probably onto something here, but maybe not for the reason(s) you suggest. I think the authors just knew three was more symbolic or poetic than two, with more metaphorical possibilities. So they crammed a third in there, then tried to figure out how best to describe it.

Because it feels forced.

[The Ugly]

I do appreciate the back and forth, T. Appreciate you keeping it as logical as you have, so thanks.

[tbombz]

Your welcome

[Primemuscle]

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Questions: What's the difference? Thought it was an equilateral triangle, but the Ghost is more sacred than Jesus? Why?

Furthermore, in what possible context would you anticipate someone cursing the Holy Spirit, this ambiguous entity we barely even understand? We hardly acknowledge the cat, much less talk shit - it's the trio's anonymous bass player. Not sure we need a protective order here, fella.

(Also, why italicize the future "age"?)

Are you actually trying to rationalize what has been written and rewritten in the bible? You either take it on blind faith or you don't accept it at all. Anything else is an exercise in futility.

[Purge_WTF]

 Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is attributing His works to the works of unclean spirits (demons) and vice-versa. (Matthew 12: 24 -32)

 Concerning the triune nature of God, while the word "Trinity" never appears in the Bible, the word "monotheism" doesn't either, but the Bible certainly supports the idea. Jesus's baptism is one of many examples.

[Agnostic007]

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is attributing His works to the works of unclean spirits (demons) and vice-versa. (Matthew 12: 24 -32)

 Concerning the triune nature of God, while the word "Trinity" never appears in the Bible, the word "monotheism" doesn't either, but the Bible certainly supports the idea. Jesus's baptism is one of many examples.

I think there is an evolution in the bible from polytheism in the early manuscripts to monotheism. No need for a god to even mention "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" if there wasn't a history of other gods.

Tbomb left out Earth Wind and Fire as evidence for the trinity 

[tbombz]

I think there is an evolution in the bible from polytheism in the early manuscripts to monotheism. No need for a god to even mention "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" if there wasn't a history of other gods.

Of course there are many gods!

And there is a lot of talk in the New Testament about other gods as well...

In Acts 19 there is an account of how the citizens in Ephesus went into an uproar because they feared that Christianity was destroying the worship of their goddess named Artemis.

In 1 Corinthians Paul talks a lot about how the Gentiles make sacrifices to other gods.


These are not actually GOD'S, of course. But rather they are just things which are worshiped as if they are God.

[avxo]

Of course there are many gods!

And there is a lot of talk in the New Testament about other gods as well...

In Acts 19 there is an account of how the citizens in Ephesus went into an uproar because they feared that Christianity was destroying the worship of their goddess named Artemis.

In 1 Corinthians Paul talks a lot about how the Gentiles make sacrifices to other gods.


These are not actually GOD'S, of course. But rather they are just things which are worshiped as if they are God.

So here's the thing. Plenty of other religions claim their GOD or GODS are true and that yours is a FAKE. Can you conclusively PROVE otherwise without having to fall back to to "well, it says in the BIBLE, which is the true and inerrant word of the ONE AND ONLY GOD..."

[The Ugly]

So here's the thing. Plenty of other religions claim their GOD or GODS are true and that yours is a FAKE. Can you conclusively PROVE otherwise without having to fall back to to "well, it says in the BIBLE, which is the true and inerrant word of the ONE AND ONLY GOD..."

This part, man. How they repeat this shit with straight face ...

Balls as big as church bells.

[tbombz]

So here's the thing. Plenty of other religions claim their GOD or GODS are true and that yours is a FAKE. Can you conclusively PROVE otherwise without having to fall back to to "well, it says in the BIBLE, which is the true and inerrant word of the ONE AND ONLY GOD..."

I was addressing Agnostics comment about what he perceived as a shift in the Bible from polytheism to monotheism.

[Agnostic007]

Of course there are many gods!

And there is a lot of talk in the New Testament about other gods as well...

In Acts 19 there is an account of how the citizens in Ephesus went into an uproar because they feared that Christianity was destroying the worship of their goddess named Artemis.

In 1 Corinthians Paul talks a lot about how the Gentiles make sacrifices to other gods.


These are not actually GOD'S, of course. But rather they are just things which are worshiped as if they are God.

So you are saying men can be wrong about the god they choose to worship.. and even though they believe with all their heart the god they worship is the right god.. it's possible they are wrong..

Which begs the question.. why are you so sure you are right?

[tbombz]

Someone might believe in their conscious mind that the god they wprship is the real God, yet in their subconscious mind be well aware of their idolatry. 

However, it would be right to say that in some sense those who worship false gods do in fact, partially, in an insincere way, worship certain aspects of The true God. Because all things worth worshipping come from Him.

My confidence in Jesus...


1) personal experience with God, 2) self authentication of the Gospels 3) fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament and New 3) observation of reality that perfectly reflects the biblical description of it..

[avxo]

1) personal experience with God

Whether real or imagined, I understand how such an experience could be powerful.

2) self authentication of the Gospels

What self-authentication?

3) fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament and New

What clear and unambigious prophecies have been objectively and undeniably fulfilled?

3) observation of reality that perfectly reflects the biblical description of it..

LOL...

[Agnostic007]

He'll bring up the birth of Christ and all the prophecies that were fulfilled. I'll point out the anonymous authors of the gospels had access to the prophecies and when they wrote them (Gospels) decades after his alleged death, they simply plugged them in, often times erroneously.  Thing is, I think some people due to issues... need to believe in something regardless of the truth of it. My sister has dealt with severe depression and health issues for years that I think only her belief in an afterlife and the biblical god gives her any reason to continue on. Maybe this belief in some way saves Tbombz from some serious issues down the road...  

[tbombz]

[Agnostic007]

I should play the lottery today..