Travel restrictions on Muslims really outrageous?

[Donny]

I am from the Republic of Ireland, I did not have to live through that, thankfully. Every morning I remember the news was about a bomb, or shooting or kneecapping in Northern Ireland, and more often than you would imagine there were bombs that killed 10-25+ people and destroyed whole streets.

I did visit there a few times before any ceasefire and it meant being searched at gunpoint by the british army, even as a 7 year old, as your car was searched. Cannot blame them as the IRA used proxy bombs and other methods to kill soldiers aside from direct attacks.

Google: british murders northern ireland government involvement

You will see countless cases. Pat Finicane was a prominent murder, but the killings on Bloody Sunday would be the most well known. The thing is, part of the political agreement was that for 20 years (so until 2018) many of the details of murders from both sides would not be revealed or made public.

Oh, and if you are wondering, I have no respect for the murder of soldiers or civilians as they were carried out. I have friends who feel strongly against this as they are older and know people oppressed and murdered from that conflict - they call me sheltered (rightly so) - but I am saying what I know and how I feel.

By the way, the RUC were a sectarian police force. The "Royal" Ulster Constabulary, which banned/omitted catholics (therefore nationalists) from joining, was not a police force. It was a tool of oppression hence there is now the PSNI.

everyone sees it from their point of view. I of course did VCPs too checking people and cars and was given abuse. You have to remember Soldiers were shot at doing these checks so what you see as maybe excessive force was for us Soldiers normal. I even one time met Gerry Adams on one such search. anyway i like the Irish and have no problem with you guys on here. I also find that some of the most Radical people themselves never saw anything of what really went on. We had to clean up the mess. Young guys being "Disciplined" as you wrote being Knee capped..

[Donny]

But is it an educated opinion?

depends on your view point. I smiled at his post but like i wrote i like pellius.

[TuHolmes]

I just realized that you implied that Jesus was born in "Palestine" instead of Bethlehem.

It wasn't until 1995 that Israel turned over the city of Bethlehem to the Palestinian Authority as part of the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement. Another foolish and naive deal where Israel has to surrender something concrete, more land, for a promise of peace. A promise that is ALWAYS broken. ALWAYS.

Again this was in 1995.

It's like if I were to refer to Rhodesia's Prime Minister, Ian Smith, as the Prime Minister of Zimbabwe or that the Secretary General of the UN, U Thant, was born in Myanmar instead Burma.

But at least now I know where you are coming from. Dishonest and agenda driven.

Google "Where was Jesus born" and see how hard you have to search to find a link that says "Jesus was born in Palestine".

Please tell me you are not an American.

I didn't say Palestine.

I said Palestinian as in a region.

Not a specific city. Of course I know the determined city itself. Everyone does.

Will attempt to post more when I'm not on my phone.

[drkaje]

depends on your view point. I smiled at his post but like i wrote i like pellius.

There's a huge difference between an opinion based upon education and some logical thought process and starting out with a fixed idea and then looking for supporting evidence.

[doriancutlerman]

Relax.... Pellius is a Filipino living in Hawaii. He is the furthest thing from an American, and his opinion are baseless.

Are you drunk again?  That's the most pitiful ad hominem I've ever seen.  I hope you're taking the piss, for your sake. 

[King Shizzo]

Are you drunk again?  That's the most pitiful ad hominem I've ever seen.  I hope you're taking the piss, for your sake. 

I was "taking the piss". I have no issues with Pellius.

[doriancutlerman]

I was "taking the piss". I have no issues with Pellius.

Very good, sir.  My apologies

[pellius]

I remember years ago when the Black Watch(senior Highland Regiment) were in Berlin they had a field exercise against the US Infantry.. they beat the shit out of the US Guys. Just saying.

I'm  not sure what you are saying. That you have a better and stronger military than the U.S.?

A training exercise is one thing where it's on a even level. I think man for man, the average radical Muslim terrorist use to living in the mountains and eating scorpions while walking for days in the cold and heat with very little water is a lot tougher than the American soldier. But it's never, or meant to be, an even fight in real life.

[pellius]

Pellius , you are a poster boy for the term "useful idiot"

Oh boy, you have no idea. If we sat down in person and had a debate and you had no access to google you'd realize how uninformed and uneducated you are/

flush out = flush suspects out of hiding. you seem to be having some trouble grasping the meaning of that term!

You seem to be having some trouble realizing how meaningless and idiotic this statement is. "Flush out suspects." We know who they are because they tell us.

You lap up your state sponsored propaganda even though at this stage only a complete idiot could still believe it. "we did a lot of good work in iraq" "got rid of a tyrant"

Under Bush, The Surge,  if you even know what that is, was a unanimous success that the world agreed and acknowledged. Obama squandered it.

reality - you took a secular, stable and relatively prosperous country and turned it into a lawless, hell hole over run by religious fanatics, thousands dead and millions displaced, all on the back of a lie. and you in your infinite stupidity sit there and say "we did a lot of good and then we left"

Oh boy, how stupid can you be? Prosperous and stable to whom? Saddam yes, but not for the people. This is how all dictatorships are run. It's breathtaking how clueless you are.

you say "al qaeda is now only a shadow of what it once was" , oh great so your 15 years of warmongering in the middle east brought about the weakening one terrorist group whilst giving birth to another (ISIS) which make the former look like a bunch of girl guides.

The rise of ISIS due the Obama policies was already been explained ad infinitum. He was warned by our military leaders that what would happen would be the exact thing that happened after we left Vietnam. (You remember what happened when we left Vietnam?).
And the were right. Exactly right.

and i didn't "criticised the US for butting in" . i made an observation that since WWII the US has continually stirred up trouble and stuck it's nose into the affairs of other countries. which is indisputable fact.

There was something called the Cold War. We were trying to stop Communist expansion. Were you against that? I know some South Koreans and West Germans that have a strong opinion (and gratitude) that the U.S. "stuck it's nose" into their affairs.

You sound like one of those pussified pacifist that protested against Reagan installing Pershing millions to protect your ungrateful ass because this would be a "sign of aggression" and provoke the Soviet Misslies.

We GIVE you missiles for self defense because you were too weak an unwilling to protect yourselves and you were afraid it would anger the Soviets.

what i said was the UK and europe should have stayed well out of your latest bout of warmongering in the middle east as your 'wars' are rarely worthwhile and even more rarely achieve their given objectives.

Your pacifism and political correctness will be the end of your collapsing culture.

It is my hope that before Europe gets to the point of no return people like you will grow some balls and start fighting back.

[pellius]

Why do they want to come here? because western intervention has destabilized their homeland and people for the most part just want to live in peace, get a job, feed, clothed and provide a roof for their family. and that's the image america gives off.

Have you ever live in a metropolis? No one assimilates. Even in the famed melting pot everyone keeps to their own kind;
Chinatown, Little Italy, Harlem, flushing(Asians), ktown(korea town), bay ridge(Italians\Irish), hillside(bengali), Astoria(greek), sunnyside\woodside(irish), Jackson heights(south Asians), midwood(jewish), bensonhurst(Italian,Russian), ect ect ect

well i live in nyc, I was working at 2 rector street on 9\11.

where do you live?

So America destabilized the Middle East so in response they want to move to America? The Middle East has always been a mess with or without America.

There's a difference between a society that is muti-ethnic and multi-cultural. Nothing wrong with anybody living and celebrating their heritage but we should all share the same culture. The American culture.

I live in Hawaii.

[The Ugly]

If I was the president I would have tried to flush out the planners/perpetrators and bring them to justice, that's how a civilised, democratic country deals with an act of terrorism. the UK was bombed to fk by the IRA we didn't go dropping bombs on Ireland or even America as that's where most of their arms and funding came from!

what was achieved by the "war on terror" ? wasted billions of $ , lost soldiers and created tenfold more potential terrorists. You can't fight terrorism by bombing, invading and occupying countries.

Of course you did something to pss bin laden off, why else you think they did 9/11? being feeble minded i suppose you bought the line "they did it because they hate our freedom in the west"

defending terrorists, LOL the US state is the biggest terrorist on the planet

and in case it escaped you this is a BB forum, it's ok to be a bit "homo"

You mentioned feeble-minded, I see. Ironic.

You have no sense of perspective, unfortunately. This is typical "Bush is Hitler," "Americans are Nazis"- type hyperbole. Totally minimizes the evil that is true terrorism; just makes you feel self-righteously outraged, yet adds zero by way of meaningful discourse.

Too much Zinn, too much Chomsky, too little perspective.

[pellius]

I didn't say Palestine.

I said Palestinian as in a region.

Not a specific city. Of course I know the determined city itself. Everyone does.

Will attempt to post more when I'm not on my phone.

Oh brother.    

Note I said "implied" and just the fact that you didn't use the city Bethlehem and made any reference at all to 'Palestinians" betrays you.

[pellius]

There's a huge difference between an opinion based upon education and some logical thought process and starting out with a fixed idea and then looking for supporting evidence.

Really? The premise of this thread we have a specific group of people coming from a particular part of the world that want to kill us. I think it's not unreasonable to have a temporary halt in allowing people originating from such countries as we can't vet everybody adequately.

Are you against that? Should we just have open borders? What do you propose?

And logic? You're an expert in logic? A logical argument has three qualities: The premises must be true. The argument must be valid. If that is the case, then per force the conclusion will be true.

So tell me, since it's something you can't google, does this simple syllogism met those criterion? Why or why not based on your education and logical processes?

All birds have wings.
A chicken has wings.
Therefore, a chicken is a bird.

[wes]

Pellius = one smart dude in my book.

don`t always agree with him,but most of the time I do.


Great debater.

[BooRadley]

Arabs are right up there with blacks as the most evil, parasitic, useless race of "people" on the planet.

[pellius]

Pellius = one smart dude in my book.

don`t always agree with him,but most of the time I do.


Great debater.

Thanks. I love a good debate and will take on all comers on anything because I care more about truth and clarity and I'm ready to admit if I am wrong or misinformed. If I win an argument I've really learned nothing. If I lose, then that means I've been enlighten and hopefully a bit wiser. I also realize I am not the smartest guy in the world and will acknowledge my superior without shame or false ego. Something I had to due recently.

Actually, I'm not really that sure if I agree or disagree with you.

I think you are a bit over my head and need to dumb it down for me.

I am all about truth and clarity and sometimes this means I have to admit that you appear far more intelligent and self aware than I am.

So I'll just respond with: "What he said ^^^^^"

(Note to self: Reread "Critique of Pure Reason" but this time don't read it while watching reruns of The Simpsons at the same time.)

[TuHolmes]

Oh brother.    

Note I said "implied" and just the fact that you didn't use the city Bethlehem and made any reference at all to 'Palestinians" betrays you.

How does that betray anything? The fact of the matter is that the area is too cold in the winter for sheep herding (shepherds watching over their flocks you night) and the time was tax season which even in Roman times was in the spring.

Do you deny any of what I'm saying is true?

[Conker]

Oh boy, you have no idea. If we sat down in person and had a debate and you had no access to google you'd realize how uninformed and uneducated you are/

You seem to be having some trouble realizing how meaningless and idiotic this statement is. "Flush out suspects." We know who they are because they tell us.

Under Bush, The Surge,  if you even know what that is, was a unanimous success that the world agreed and acknowledged. Obama squandered it.

Oh boy, how stupid can you be? Prosperous and stable to whom? Saddam yes, but not for the people. This is how all dictatorships are run. It's breathtaking how clueless you are.

The rise of ISIS due the Obama policies was already been explained ad infinitum. He was warned by our military leaders that what would happen would be the exact thing that happened after we left Vietnam. (You remember what happened when we left Vietnam?).
And the were right. Exactly right.

There was something called the Cold War. We were trying to stop Communist expansion. Were you against that? I know some South Koreans and West Germans that have a strong opinion (and gratitude) that the U.S. "stuck it's nose" into their affairs.

You sound like one of those pussified pacifist that protested against Reagan installing Pershing millions to protect your ungrateful ass because this would be a "sign of aggression" and provoke the Soviet Misslies.

We GIVE you missiles for self defense because you were too weak an unwilling to protect yourselves and you were afraid it would anger the Soviets.

Your pacifism and political correctness will be the end of your collapsing culture.

It is my hope that before Europe gets to the point of no return people like you will grow some balls and start fighting back.

LOL yes i have really needed to garner tons of information from google to counter your imbecilic arguments!

still not quite managing to comprehend the meaning of "flush out" i see?...even if you think you know who did something you still need to catch them right? "FLUSH THEM OUT of hiding? never mind, keep playing dumb it fits your character.

the world agreed how successful "the surge" in iraq was ? ....no they didn't you utter mongtard.
i remember all the talk at the time of the initial invasion was about making sure that in the aftermath iraq would be left in a stable condition. remember the operation for "hearts and minds"... that worked out well eh?

the invasion and occupation of iraq was an unmitigated disaster from start to finish, and the whole world knows it. attacked a sovereign nation under a false allegation and then left the country in a state of civil war. hundreds of thousands dead and millions turned into refugees.
oh and i suggest you do some reading if you doubt that iraq was a relatively prosperous(for the region) and stable country with a secular regime before you decided to destroy it.

the rise of ISIS was due to you rushing into a war on the back of a lie without any understanding of the internal politics or dynamics of the country you were attacking, and taking down a regime that did have that understanding. and you blame obama for the rise of ISIS? how creative. obama/bush, republicans/democrats = same thing - continued pointless warmongering.

and god knows why you keep bringing up vietnam and the cold war, that was just as worthless, dishonourable and unsuccessful as your latest war on the middle east. going around the world stirring up trouble, staging proxy wars on foreign soil, never achieving specified objectives.

you're right europe does need to "grow some balls" and distance itself as far away from US foreign policy as possible, and quit this foolish notion that at least we'll be safe if we stay on the side of the bully.

anyways i'm done here. arguing with an imbecile is really a fruitless task.

[SuperTed]

The Iraq conflict will go down as one of the biggest blunders in history. There is no point trying to defend it now when even politicians who originally supported it have since changed their tune.

Nobody should have ever supported it. Surely everyone knew what the consequences would be?

http://www.arabnews.com/node/223999

[drkaje]

Really? The premise of this thread we have a specific group of people coming from a particular part of the world that want to kill us. I think it's not unreasonable to have a temporary halt in allowing people originating from such countries as we can't vet everybody adequately.

Are you against that? Should we just have open borders? What do you propose?

And logic? You're an expert in logic? A logical argument has three qualities: The premises must be true. The argument must be valid. If that is the case, then per force the conclusion will be true.

So tell me, since it's something you can't google, does this simple syllogism met those criterion? Why or why not based on your education and logical processes?

All birds have wings.
A chicken has wings.
Therefore, a chicken is a bird.

You're goofier than Adonis.

There's no way to prove who is or isn't a Muslim. The only option would be to go by race.

You're asking a person who is against all immigration. The opinion is based upon the idea that less cheap labor will translate into improved standards of living for our citizens.

Some of the Middle East mess is a result of US political/international policy. I don't see the harm in admitting the truth and learning from the mistakes.

[pellius]

How does that betray anything? The fact of the matter is that the area is too cold in the winter for sheep herding (shepherds watching over their flocks you night) and the time was tax season which even in Roman times was in the spring.

Do you deny any of what I'm saying is true?

Sigh... I don't know why I bother.

My VERY FIRST RESPONSE to your post is that NOBODY believes Christ was born in the winter.

Not using the city of Bethlehem and making any reference to "Palestine" betrays that you are agenda driven.

Are Israeli's terrorist?

[pellius]

LOL yes i have really needed to garner tons of information from google to counter your imbecilic arguments!

still not quite managing to comprehend the meaning of "flush out" i see?...even if you think you know who did something you still need to catch them right? "FLUSH THEM OUT of hiding? never mind, keep playing dumb it fits your character.

the world agreed how successful "the surge" in iraq was ? ....no they didn't you utter mongtard.
i remember all the talk at the time of the initial invasion was about making sure that in the aftermath iraq would be left in a stable condition. remember the operation for "hearts and minds"... that worked out well eh?

the invasion and occupation of iraq was an unmitigated disaster from start to finish, and the whole world knows it. attacked a sovereign nation under a false allegation and then left the country in a state of civil war. hundreds of thousands dead and millions turned into refugees.
oh and i suggest you do some reading if you doubt that iraq was a relatively prosperous(for the region) and stable country with a secular regime before you decided to destroy it.

the rise of ISIS was due to you rushing into a war on the back of a lie without any understanding of the internal politics or dynamics of the country you were attacking, and taking down a regime that did have that understanding. and you blame obama for the rise of ISIS? how creative. obama/bush, republicans/democrats = same thing - continued pointless warmongering.

and god knows why you keep bringing up vietnam and the cold war, that was just as worthless, dishonourable and unsuccessful as your latest war on the middle east. going around the world stirring up trouble, staging proxy wars on foreign soil, never achieving specified objectives.

you're right europe does need to "grow some balls" and distance itself as far away from US foreign policy as possible, and quit this foolish notion that at least we'll be safe if we stay on the side of the bully.

anyways i'm done here. arguing with an imbecile is really a fruitless task.

I know when I am dealing with a serious, intelligent and thoughtful person where every post contains at least one "LOL".

In all my debates on this board you are truly the most moronic, uneducated and uninformed idiot I've ever encountered on this board. All your "knowledge" is based on the left wing media and celebrity talk shows.

You asked for the reasons why we went to Iraq and would have regardless of terrorism or 9/11 and it just sailed over your vapid head.

This topic is beyond you and way over your head. Just go back to living your shallow nothing life, flexing in front of the mirror, never reading a book, making sure you get all your macros for the day and leave the serious stuff for the adults.

Please change your pic. As with everything in your life, you are clueless, you have no idea what an ass clown you look like.

Ignorance is bliss.

[pellius]

You're goofier than Adonis.

There's no way to prove who is or isn't a Muslim. The only option would be to go by race.

You're asking a person who is against all immigration. The opinion is based upon the idea that less cheap labor will translate into improved standards of living for our citizens.

Some of the Middle East mess is a result of US political/international policy. I don't see the harm in admitting the truth and learning from the mistakes.

We are talking about immigration from other countries. Didn't you note the exchange between 240 and myself?

But if you are against ALL immigration then it's a moot point.

[TuHolmes]

Sigh... I don't know why I bother.

My VERY FIRST RESPONSE to your post is that NOBODY believes Christ was born in the winter.

Not using the city of Bethlehem and making any reference to "Palestine" betrays that you are agenda driven.

Are Israeli's terrorist?

No.

And it wasn't Israel when Jesus was born.

It was the Roman Empire.

At the time there was no Israel, so calling the region "Palestinian" is more accurate.

Or are you trying to say that Israel in its current incarnation existed in 33BC?

I have no agenda. You just see what you want to. It matters not to me.

[pellius]

No.

And it wasn't Israel when Jesus was born.

It was the Roman Empire.

At the time there was no Israel, so calling the region "Palestinian" is more accurate.

Or are you trying to say that Israel in its current incarnation existed in 33BC?

I have no agenda. You just see what you want to. It matters not to me.

Israel and Jerusalem is mentioned repeatedly in the Bible. No mention of Jerusalem or Palestine in the Koran.

It is true that Israel ceased to exist as a nation after its destruction by the Assyrians in 722 BCE. The territory formerly occupied by the Israelites became the Assyrian province of Samaria, and yes, by the time of Jesus it was under Roman control.

The first time the name Palestine was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury.

But the fact is, Palestine has never existed as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that’s too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

The fact that you make any reference to "Palestine" when referring
to where Jesus was born. And even say, "If Jesus in fact even existed" betrays your agenda.  I am open about my agenda when I mention  Palestine I put it in quotes "Palestine" which implies that I do not recognize it as an independent country.

And the fact that you deny that America was founded on Judeo/Christian ethics, a fact that was common knowledge and taken for granted and never debated until recently when people like you seek to undermine any importance and influence that religion has had, not only in the creation of this country, but the influence in the world.

And you lie, it matters a lot to you. If it didn't, you would have been silent about my claim regarding my country's Christian influence. Why would you care as you claim? Because you care a lot. People like you are not so much motivated by free thinking and reason as you claim but simply anti-religious and always seek to attack and undermine something that you claim doesn't matter to you.

If you were true to your word you would just shut up and live and let live.

Jesus was born in the city of Bethlehem. Just say that. Don't subtly embellish it with your anti-religious, anti-Israel agenda. It's only a matter of time before I sniff out an anti-Semite. I've been doing it for decades and a litmus test I used to determine a person's moral compass.

At least now I know you are not an American which explains a lot and makes your opinion far less important.