Oppressed white farmers occupy federal building in Oregon

[TuHolmes]

You're basically saying the entire civil rights movement was immoral because someone might have lost a days salary.

I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

Surely there are times when civil disobedience is a good thing, but every cause does not equate to that.

While I agree with the BLM premise, they are not doing themselves any favors. People jumping in front of cars and claiming they were "hit", when in fact, they stepped into them.

That's not civil disobedience.

Also, the BLM movement is refusing to acknowledge that the people who are dying are committing crimes and that is the precursor to most of the problems.

Although, BLM has absolutely nothing with what is going on here in Oregon at the moment, and yes, these people, if they find themselves dead, will have no one to blame but themselves.

Taking over a federal building of any sort is going to go poorly. 

[SF1900]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

Perhaps, but isn't that considered breaking the law?

There initial plan may not have broken any laws, however, threats of violence now crosses the line into breaking the law. Im asking a question.

[Las Vegas]

inconveniencing for a few hours or even a day or two, is not hurting.  directly confronting law-makers doesn't seem to work when law-makers see you as less than human.

So when idiots are stealing shit and burning things down, etc, how do you think they're viewed?

[NarcissisticDeity]

yes, we live in an oligarchy.  Citizens United made it worse.  Until we get campaign finance reform, little will change.  The NRA is gun manufacturer trade group, not a club for gun enthusiasts.  The majority of Americans don't want to take away your guns, but do want some basic gun regulations.  The power of the NRA prevents that from even being discussed.

The NRA is not a gun manufacturers trade group the National Shooting Sports Foundation is. http://www.nssf.org/about/

The majority of Americans don't want to take away your guns, but do want some basic gun regulations

Says who? The majority are as clueless as you are. There are currently over 50,000 ' basic gun regulations ' on the books already. The NRA ( which I'm NOT a member of for the record ) opposes even more useless attempts to punish law abiding citizens.

The power of the NRA prevents that from even being discussed.

Nonsense , see above. No denying the NRA isn't a powerful lobbying agency but law abiding citizens are tired of being punished for the actions of criminals and are speaking at the polls. " common sense " gun laws are code word for infringing on my rights and people are sick of it.

 

[Kazan]

Perhaps, but isn't that considered breaking the law?

There initial plan may not have broken any laws, however, threats of violence now crosses the line into breaking the law. Im asking a question.

If that was the case there would be a hell of a lot more people in jail.

[Kazan]

kazan, please go to rawstory.com and read the tweets and see photos/interviews from the people on the ground.

I bet you'll stop defending these guys.  This isn't a protest.  They threatened to kill.  This isn't a sit-in... they blocked the roads in.  They promised to stay for years, and they have supplies for the winter.  And there are AR15s everywhere.

At some point, I think you'll quietly realize this isn't just a couple of good ol' boys enjoying a public park on a closed day

The FBI better get Lon Horiuchi over there right away, he'll get this party started.

[TuHolmes]

So when idiots are stealing shit and burning things down, etc, how do you think they're viewed?

Also a fair point.

Why does no one talk about the actual property destruction that has occurred under BLM.

I have no problem with peaceful protest, but when you start destroying buildings... Really, destroying your own fucking neighborhoods. Do you really think people pay any attention to you.

To bring the conversation full circle... You know whose places of work were left alone during the Rodney King riots?

The Asians.... Not because they were Asian, but because they had guns to protect their shops and the people running around and looting and destroying things knew damn well that the Asians would shoot them in a heart beat so they left their shit alone.

[NarcissisticDeity]

The FBI better get Lon Horiuchi over there right away, he'll get this party started.

Naw there are only men , no women holding babies.

[timfogarty]

Again, your right to protest ends once it interferes with my ability to function in society.

how did the civil rights protest, the anti war protests, the gay rights protests of the past not interfere with your ability to get around town?  because you weren't born yet? because you didn't live near any of those protests?  

or is it that hey we had lots of problems in the past, but we've fixed them all, and now no one has any reason to protest? So shut up and don't inconvenience me.

if you think that the civil rights protests of the past helped make the present a better place, then you must continue to support people's right to peaceful protest, even if it does occasionally inconvenience you.

[Kazan]

Naw there are only men , no women holding babies.

I'm surprised anyone got that reference............

[timfogarty]

So when idiots are stealing shit and burning things down, etc, how do you think they're viewed?

yes, I see sports fans after a big win or loss as stupid.

[Las Vegas]

Also a fair point.

Why does no one talk about the actual property destruction that has occurred under BLM.

I have no problem with peaceful protest, but when you start destroying buildings... Really, destroying your own fucking neighborhoods. Do you really think people pay any attention to you.

To bring the conversation full circle... You know whose places of work were left alone during the Rodney King riots?

The Asians.... Not because they were Asian, but because they had guns to protect their shops and the people running around and looting and destroying things knew damn well that the Asians would shoot them in a heart beat so they left their shit alone.

I haven't much looked at the main topic, but why do they claim these guys started that fire?  To cover up evidence they'd been hunting?  (sorry if that's a dumb question, but I really don't know about this one)

[Las Vegas]

yes, I see sports fans after a big win or loss as stupid.

Meaning it reduces a serious issue to that of drunken, drugged recklessness.  Isn't that true?

[NarcissisticDeity]

I haven't much looked at the main topic, but why do they claim these guys started that fire?  To cover up evidence they'd been hunting?  (sorry if that's a dumb question, but I really don't know about this one)

The other side of the story

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/#more-110497

[timfogarty]

You know whose places of work were left alone during the Rodney King riots?
The Asians.... Not because they were Asian, but because they had guns to protect their shops and the people running around and looting and destroying things knew damn well that the Asians would shoot them in a heart beat so they left their shit alone.

Nice talking point.  Easily disproven.  Asian shops had been moving into predominately black areas, making it harder for black owned businesses.  Those Asian shops were all targeted during the riots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots (look for citation 27)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0429/p01s07-ussc.html

[TuHolmes]

I haven't much looked at the main topic, but why do they claim these guys started that fire?  To cover up evidence they'd been hunting?  (sorry if that's a dumb question, but I really don't know about this one)

That is what the courts determined.

They were found guilty of setting a fire to cover up poaching.

This burned 130 acres in 2001.

Another fire was also started in 2006.

The guys (The Hammonds) claim they were burning to stop reduce invasive plants. (Witnesses have said otherwise)

They have also stated they do not want the Bundy's (The people from Nevada) to assist them or back them in any way.

The Bundy's have also given zero demands. They are just doing this to do it.  

[Kazan]

Meaning it reduces a serious issue to that of drunken, drugged recklessness.  Isn't that true?

No it's just a reflection of a morally bankrupt society, there was a time when people actually respected others property.

[timfogarty]

Meaning it reduces a serious issue to that of drunken, drugged recklessness.  Isn't that true?

I see no evidence that actual BLM protesters are doing the rioting.

[mr.turbo]

whitey, ready to die for his cause because god told him to, takes over a government building while armed.

not terrorism

 

America : Harry Reid labels Supporters of Rancher Cliven Bundy 'Domestic Terrorists' (Apr 18, 2014)

 

[TuHolmes]

As this is politically motivated.

It is by definition terrorism.

The only difference is that they have not hurt anyone yet.

I expect this to end similarly to Waco.

[Kazan]

America : Harry Reid labels Supporters of Rancher Cliven Bundy 'Domestic Terrorists' (Apr 18, 2014)

 

Harry Reid is an intellectual terrorist

[Las Vegas]

I see no evidence that actual BLM protesters are doing the rioting.

Yet you cannot deny they are fully associated with it.

Isn't that a big problem?

[timfogarty]

Says who? The majority are as clueless as you are. There are currently over 50,000 ' basic gun regulations ' on the books already. The NRA ( which I'm NOT a member of for the record ) opposes even more useless attempts to punish law abiding citizens.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

[timfogarty]

Yet you cannot deny they are fully associated with it.

Isn't that a big problem?

There have been 1173 BLM protests in the last 1.5 years.  Almost all of them have not been associated with property damage.  Those that were, were done by outsiders.

https://elephrame.com/textbook/BLM?name=protests

[NarcissisticDeity]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

That poll doesn't mean the politicians aren't trying to. from state to federal the left keeps trying , the second amendment be damned.

The point still stands , there are over 50K laws on the books already concerning guns , you don't think the " basics " have been covered?