Oppressed white farmers occupy federal building in Oregon

[Kazan]

LOL @ Trying to excuse it because "Well, BLM did this and this..."

I guess Ted Bundy could have told the judge "Look bro, Hitler killed 6 million, what's the big deal about the 20 that I killed and ate?"

Sorry... each crime stands on its own merit, or demerit, in this case.  

They brought guns, broke into a closed building, made threats.   Because they want govt handouts on resources so their business can gain a competitive advantage.

Well shit 240 has solved the case, I guess we can just end this thread 

[_aj_]

perhaps when tragedy or other crisis strikes, there are no real libertarians.

Wrong again. We know how to take care of ourselves and our neighbors, thanks.

[Kazan]

Wrong again. We know how to take care of ourselves and our neighbors, thanks.

That is a foreign concept to most

[mr.turbo]

Was this all really over jacking deer and burning land to cover the crime?

it's pretty weird

[calfzilla]

White people, so desperate to work they are willing to go to these great lengths. If only other people had this drive 

[TuHolmes]

Us vs Them.  Everyone, no matter how libertarian, is all for society, institutions, government, helping Us, and either uncomfortable or downright hostile at helping Them. A tragedy strikes your family, you accept help from institutions. You like laws that protect Us. You don't like laws that protect Them.

The problem is the definition of Us vs Them.  I like to think that people on the left have a much bigger definition of Us than those on the right.  We're all in this together.

Another problem is whether this is a zero sum game.  If They make progress, do We lose progress?  

And another problem is when you lead your whole life thinking you're part of the ruling class and then it becomes apparent you're not.  Across the US, white middle class has been losing ground the last 30 years.  They blame it on minorities, when in fact they were losing to the white upper class.

And finally changing demographics.  White heterosexual males have been the majority for all of this country's history, but that is changing.  Already changed in places like California.  White militia types are scared as shit of that.

No. It's really not.

Heterosexual males are still the majority by far in the US.

A percentage point over 30 years isn't going to make any real changes in my lifetime... Or yours.

[Voice of Doom]

why does ANYONE need to be setting a trap?   Let's step back and think this through...

The people are there illegally.  It's not their property.

these dudes, whatever their motivation - that ain't their property.  they're just TAKING a building.  It's not like the govt took it from them, or emminent domain, etc.  They're just deciding to TAKE OVER a place that they dont own the deed to.  

I'm not going down the road of "progressives' and politics - this is a simple legal issue.  Hey dudes, this ain't your building... GTFO or we will arrest you.  It's that simple.   They're tresspassing and holding guns to ensure nobody can make them leave?  Can't defend that.  

Whose building is it?  It's a federal building meaning it belongs to "the people".  These men are "the people" and they are addressing grievances against the government. 

[TuHolmes]

Whose building is it?  It's a federal building meaning it belongs to "the people".  These men are "the people" and they are addressing grievances against the government. 

While it sounds good, you and I both know that is not how this works.

[andreisdaman]

Substitute armed blacks for armed whites in this situation...........what would the reaction be???..especially at Getbig?

END OF THREAD

[TuHolmes]

Was this all really over jacking deer and burning land to cover the crime?

That's exactly what started it.

Also, just a reminder, the Hammonds (the guilty party) are not involved in this situation currently.

[calfzilla]

Substitute armed blacks for armed whites in this situation...........what would the reaction be???..especially at Getbig?

END OF THREAD

The liberals on facebook are already starting this argument. The 2 cultures are really too different to compare.

[andreisdaman]

The liberals reasonable people on facebook are already starting this argument. The 2 cultures are really too different to compare.

FIXED FOR TRUTH

[mr.turbo]

Substitute armed blacks for armed whites in this situation...........what would the reaction be???..especially at Getbig?

END OF THREAD

black child steals candy at the store deserves to be shot in the back and assassinated

whitey armed to the teeth seizes government property is standing up for himself

lots of terrorist sympathizers up in this bitch

[timfogarty]

No. It's really not.

Heterosexual males are still the majority by far in the US.

A percentage point over 30 years isn't going to make any real changes in my lifetime... Or yours.

I certainly plan on living another 30 years.



and in California, we're already there.

[TuHolmes]

I certainly plan on living another 30 years.



and in California, we're already there.

And in which graph are the white populace the minority?

That also doesn't speak on you specifically citing white heterosexual males.

That's just white people.

[calfzilla]

White males will still have the power and money regardless of them being in the minority.

[andreisdaman]

White males will still have the power and money regardless of them being in the minority.

Then why are you guys so fucking scared all the time???

[drkaje]

Then why are you guys so fucking scared all the time???

How many would be alive if they were black?

[TuHolmes]

Then why are you guys so fucking scared all the time???

Ridiculous statement Andre.

Do you think people are just running around scared? Of what?

[SF1900]

Ridiculous statement Andre.

Do you think people are just running around scared? Of what?

I suspect Andre means scared of losing power.

[TuHolmes]

I suspect Andre means scared of losing power.

Most white people have no power anyway. So what could they lose?

[calfzilla]

Then why are you guys so fucking scared all the time???

Little disappointed at this attacking tone Andre, I thought we were always friends.

Was just stating a fact that whites have the majority of money and power.

As to your question I don't know but IMO it could have something to do with having a lot to lose. People with a lot have the fear of losing it and people with nothing really have nothing to fear because they can't lose anything.

[SF1900]

Most white people have no power anyway. So what could they lose?

Agreed.

Perhaps he is referring to the white people "at the top."

[_aj_]

As promised, here is the official response from the Oregon III%:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-more-free-wacos-national-three.html

TL;DR: we don't want this war, but if you start it, we will come.

No more free Wacos. A National Three Percent Declaration Regarding the Situation in Harney County, Oregon. "Why would I want to do that? There's plenty of you federal sonsabitches around here."
In 1996, common criminals calling themselves "the Montana Freemen," victimized their own neighbors in the community with fake liens and bank fraud. Eventually, the Federal authorities became involved and laid siege to their community. At the time, in the aftermath of Waco and Ruby Ridge, the FBI was very concerned that members of the constitutional militia movement might come to their aid.
They approached the leadership of these formations, trying to determine what our intentions were should the situation "go south," turning into another Waco. As part of this effort, the FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Albuquerque New Mexico office journeyed downstate to visit Bob Wright, than (as now) commander of the 1st Brigade, New Mexico Militia. "Bob," he asked, "would you really take your unit up to Montana to protect them?"
Bob looked him in the eye and said, "Why would I want to do that? There's plenty of you federal sonsabitches around here."
Our point was, then as it is now, that as much as we disagreed with the people in the compound, we believed that the Federal government had an absolute duty to respect their due process rights and to do what was necessary to end the situation without killing them. Bob's rejoinder made it clear that if it did turn into another Waco, that there would be a NATIONAL response and that we would fight in our own areas of operation where we were strongest. What Bob was trying to communicate was that we were prisoners of our own principles. We had sworn after the immolation of the Davidians that there would be "no more free Wacos." That if the Feds began killing citizens without legal recourse that they would pay a price in blood for it. Indeed, if there is one principle that everyone in the liberty movement, such as it is, agrees upon it is that. Since then, we have sent that message in a number of ways including "No More Free Wacos: An Explication of the Obvious Addressed to Eric Holder, Attorney General of the United States" in 2009. I also made this a central tenet of the Three Percent Catechism.
Among the other principles is no first use of force. We call this, "No Fort Sumters." To do so would be to surrender the moral high ground. The Founders understood that. Indeed, even the people who responded to the righteous cause of the Bundys at the time of the standoff there understood it. Yet now we have a situation contrived by some of the same people who first showed their true colors in the aftermath of that confrontation throwing this crucial tenet into the garbage can. I refer the reader to my article of yesterday, "Perfect timing for the regime. Federal provocateurs, sociopaths and idiots with a John Brown complex are writing checks that they expect the rest of us to cash in our blood," and to the statement of the Oregon Three Percent organization whose march was exploited by Ammon Bundy and his supporters to achieve the takeover.
I hasten to add that this tactic is straight out of the communist provocateur's handbook. I know since as a former member of the Maoist Progressive Labor Party, we used to do the same thing to peaceful anti-war marches. Like wise, today's black flag street "anarchists" do the same thing all across the world. The point of the tactic is to take the violence up several notches, goad the government forces into responding and radicalize others who are subsequently beaten and tear gassed. It is a tactic older than Karl Marx.
And yet, as wrong-headed and suspect as are the actions and the motives of the few people who are currently holed up in the Fish and Wildlife Service office (and they are far fewer than is claimed), the rest of us are still prisoners of our own enunciated principles. Bundy and the others (including several people whom are widely suspected of being federal provocateurs) have indeed written a check that they expect the rest of us to cash in our own blood in a ghastly civil war. Yet we cannot allow the federal government to take advantage of this perfect propaganda opportunity that they have apparently spent such effort contriving and use deadly force on the occupiers without response. As at the time of the Freemen standoff, we must get across the message to the Feds that if they do so, there will be a national response in those local areas of operations where we are strongest, politically and militarily. Frankly, this is a plea for any adults in the room in DC to intervene and use caution before this blows up in all of our faces.
As to the personalities involved, I can say this from personal experience on the ground at the time of the original Bundy confrontation. The sociopathic weasel (and likely fed provocateur) Ryan Payne insinuated himself into the Bundy family by going to church with them and promising to convert to their brand of the LDS church. Whether he actually did or not is unknown to me, but I was told by Bundy himself that this was the reason that they trusted him and took him into their personal defense detail, much as Cleopatra clasped the asp to her own bosom.
In addition, I am informed by someone on the ground out there that Ammon Bundy believes that it is his mission "to make the refuge into some sort of New Jerusalem." The parallels between Ammon and John Brown grow creepier by the minute. Others apparently view this as an opportunity for "suicide by Fed," acting out whatever private demons they have pursuing them.
Boil all of this down and this is what we have left as our own demands, our own declaration, if you will:
1. Put the Feds on notice that as much as we disagree with the actions of these people, that the government has an absolute duty to see that the situation ends without violence. In the case of the Freemen, that took 81 days and involved outside negotiators (at least one of whom, Kirk Lyons, was a federal informant).
2. We must get across to the Feds that if they do not end this peacefully, if they go for a dynamic raid that gets people killed, that they will start a national conflagration that will be fought using the principles of Fourth Generation Warfare as adapted to an American civil war. War makers and decision takers, and not just SRT thugs, will put their own lives on the line in any conflict they start. No more free Wacos. Period.
3. We must insist that some outside negotiators try to work out a compromise between the occupiers and the authorities to facilitate a peaceful end to the standoff. (Of course this time it would be preferable if none of those negotiators was a federal snitch.)
4. We must declare that the Founders always looked upon the armed citizenry as the ultimate guarantors of liberty and safety and that by making these demands we are entirely consistent with their vision of a constitutional republic of limited powers and the rule of law.
We are prisoners of our principles, as originally enunciated by them. As much as we disagree with the occupiers and whatever motives they have, we cannot do otherwise. No more free Wacos.
(If you agree with this declaration, kindly pass it on.)
Mike Vanderboegh, PO Box 926, Pinson AL 35126
Founder, National Three Percent movement.
Addendum: If I didn't make this clear in the above, let me make it plain. If you want to support the principle that Bundy and his followers are entitled to due process of law and to survive this confrontation of their own making, DO NOT ANSWER THE SIREN CALL AND GO THERE. Rather, get ready to fight in your own AOs, where you are strongest. If the occupiers are successful in their yearning for suicide by fed, the fight will in very short order come to you, as it will come to us all. Get ready. And do not neglect using every political lever open to influence everyone from the local sheriff and town councilmen to your congresscritters to exert every pressure on the regime to negotiate a peaceful end to this insanity.

[calfzilla]

Not even sure why people are bringing up sexual orientation. Lots of us white guys are gay (no homo) and they tend to do very well financially.